Post by: CM Rich on February 12, 2009, 10:07:24 PM
There's a bit of truth there, I suppose. I mean, think about it; the price of a new CZ75 imported into America during the 70s and 80s was astronomical, often upwards of $1,000! Even during the vaunted Wondernine decade, that was a whole lotta money to pay for a gun that had little more than a cult following here in the States and Canada thanks to Col. Cooper. So, it stands to reason that some CZ75 owners felt the need to overstate the toughness of the gun to their friends and fellow enthusiasts. Not only was a CZ75 a very rare sight on the local range, but with a lack of general knowledge about them you could pretty much get away with anything short of God himself forging the frames.
Another rumor I heard had to do with the design of the pistol. Perhaps the greatest feature of the CZ75 is its use of the Petter inverse rail system, which was only seen on one such pistol before the 75- the legendary and ogle-worthy Sig P210. While both use the interesting and allegedly inherently more accurate inverse rail design, the Sig is a bit beefier, whereas the CZ75 had VERY thin rails during its first incarnation. This was supposedly offset by the tough metal CZ was to use for the model of 75.
In truth, the rumor was quite contrary. Supposedly, CZ had problems with the earliest of the CZ75s and their rails failing under heavy and sustained fire. Truthfully, I don't know if this was true or not, as I haven't read any hard evidence of this. However, its possible, as any mass produced item is bound to have some sort of hiccup to work out. The fact that only a handful of 75s made it out of the factory in 1975 does lend some credibility to this claim. 1976 was also a notably shallow year in production, though this can be argued with low demand for an unproven new pistol.
For some, that's where the rumor actually starts. Could it be that CZ found some sort of magical perfect blend of steel for the 75 after the first wave left the factory? Really, I don't think so. My next point would put a hole through that claim if it were true.
See, in 1980, that's when the first big design change came into effect. Due to outside influence (supposedly from the Swiss), the CZ75 changed from the short-rail design to the more famous 3/4 rail set up, and the rails themselves were beefed up. However, CZ themselves would admit to a fatal flaw at this point later on, as they decided to go to an outside contractor in Spain for the frame casting.
These Spainish casted frames, well, sucked. Not only was the Spainish firm very slow in completing orders, but the parts CZ got back from them were of inferior quality to the first generation's. That alone made people look back to the first generation with new appreciation.
It wasn't long before angry customers gave CZ an earful about their junky new CZ75s with their fancy new rail redesign. Fortunately, CZ was already working on the solution, and that came when CZ perfected its investment forging foundry within the factory's confines.
Once that was set up, the quality of metal vastly improved in short order. Such a massive improvement in such a short time also helped aid the CZ75's reputation here in the states, as very few of the Spanish frames made it over here, and so CZ didn't suffer as bad a hit here as it did with its military customers in Europe and Africa.
So, perhaps that begs the question, "which is better? The first generation or the post-Spanish second generation?"
Truthfully, I don't know. I can say that the first generation that I have does use a very high grade of steel, which can be witnessed when you tap the metal together and listen for a higher pitched ring, like glass. This indicates toughness in the metal's composition, but can also mean less flexibility, i.e. brittleness.
I have not heard of any stories of the 80s Pre-Bs failing. Small parts may break, but I have yet to hear of the older guns actually becoming unusable due to major parts completely failing. After 20+ years on many of these guns and countless rounds, that's a very good testament to their strength. These guns were built to last, and they still do. And believe it or not, but some of the original CZ75s are still in use in odd places as service pistols! They must have access to the motherlode of Pre-B spare parts, but if the frames, sldies, and barrels are still in working order after 30 years, then its very hard to deny their toughness.
Whether or not any particular version is better than the other is hard to say, because both have excellent reputations. The only low point were the Spanish frames, and CZ moved quickly to resolve that problem. So quickly, that without CZ acknowledging this fact, it might have been completely forgotten.
So, perhaps there's alot of truth to this so-called myth. CZ's a solid company, and maintainer of the world's largest small arms factory. They're so big, in fact, that they literally make their own metal, whereas most other small arms producers buy from outside sources, and some even get major parts forged or casted by outside contractors. This means that CZ has direct control over the quality of their own steel, and they're not going to get short-changed, nor will they short-change their customers.
And they're actually getting better. Perhaps the P-01, P-06, and SP-01, with their mysterious "better methods of manufacturing", according to CZ, should be more closely examined. Because, when a company like CZ says they can make even better metal, its nothing to sneeze at. Its quite possible that the steels used in today's CZs overshadows the old legend.
However, the Pre-Bs will always demand a certain amount of respect. Not only do they possess a shape many people find to be the most appealing thing CZ's ever come up with, but they have a level of toughness and stone-strong reliablity that should never be discounted. Even as spare parts and goodies continue to evaporate to the point where we're reaching the end someday in the future, many people, myself included, will continue to love and shoot these old guns beyond their expected service life.
And that, my friends, is the legend.
(I apologize in advance for any incorrect information that may have seeped into the above editorial. I do, however, stand by my research and opinion.)
Post by: SDDLUP on February 13, 2009, 03:05:04 PM
I too have heard of frame failures in the early short rail version. Rumor or fact I don't know, but I would lean towards it being true because it seems like there wouldn't be a reason to make up a story like that.
The Spanish cast frames are known to be of lesser quality, but I forget when they finally got the in-house casting facility up and running.
I had no idea CZ actually produced their own steel.
From the original and very elegant CZ75 to the current "CZ on steroids" the CZ75 SP-01 they are all great looking guns! You are correct though that the original will always hold a special place for CZ enthusiasts. The only unfortunate result of the shape of that pistol is that many people simply discount the CZ as a "cheap Hi-Power knock off"! If those people only knew how wrong they were!
The CZ75 line is quite honestly the pinnacle of DA/SA autopistol design. Small refinements in grip shape (SP-01, SHADOW, SA) have been an improvement in my mind, but the basic design remains unsurpassed.
Post by: CM Rich on February 13, 2009, 04:36:11 PM
I believe CZ only had the Spanish-cast frames for the 1980 model year. They may have even gotten through all of those before 1980 was up. If not, I'm almost positive that 1981 marked CZ's first full year as an in-house foundry.
The actual factory of CZ-UB is a wonderland of firearms production. There's an excellent article on the stands right now within the CZ-USA special that details the CZ history and provides you with one author's experience in his visit to the UB facility. I definately recommend picking it up. It also includes the 2009 product catalogue.
Post by: Cliff47 on February 13, 2009, 05:05:53 PM
The move to the longer rails, was that there was some galling, and the longer frame/slide rails kept things lined up longer. Again, the rumor/story is lost in the mists of CZ75dom. The Spanish frames, nothing comes to mind, but that may have been a very short production run. We all know tht if CZ has a fix, it hits the production line like RIGHT NOW.
The only features shared with the JMB-designed Hi-Power is 1) the lugs on the inside of the frame and top of barrel, 2) the cam cutout that drops the barrel during recoil, and the 3) double-stack magazine. Ergonomics are very similar (to get the CZ grip, you need to change grip panels on the HP), but individual taste is the deciding factor.
The quote about "..people simply discount the CZ as a "cheap Hi-Power knock off"! If those people only knew how wrong they were!". I heartily concur!!
Post by: CM Rich on February 13, 2009, 05:41:53 PM
However, I have encountered the "super steel" legend on two seperate occassions in two seperate gun ranges, both by what I'd consider to be "old timers". Unless these older gentlemen have taken a fancy to crime-action Japanese manga on the side, it presents some sort of evidence that the legend has legs longer than the GSC manga. Afterall, the manga had to have picked it up somewhere, especially given its origin; gun-starved Japan.
The way I see it, these guys were actually around when CZs were a Com Bloc secret, so they may have been exposed to the murmerings way back in the day. They both had remarked that, upon seeing the short-rail, that they had never seen an original model in person before then.
A little while ago, I ran my own test, using a scene from Gunsmith Cats itself as inspiration. At one point, main-character Rally Vincent is explaining the legend of the old CZ75 to her friend, and she held in her hands a ruined example that had its muzzle cut off. She asks him to tap the slide of his 1911 against its own frame and listen to the noise. She then asked him to do the same with the old CZ, and he was shown to be suprised by the glass-like noise it produced.
I had been intregued by that scene since I first read it as a kid, and I longed for the day when I'd be able to confirm or deny it first hand. That day came last June, and within minutes of possessing the gun, I field stripped it and replicated the test.
There was no glass-like noise. It was definately a steel noise.
I was just a bit disappointed, but I knew that GSC was fiction, so I shrugged it off.
But later that summer, something changed my mind. I had the entire gun detail stripped during an unsuccessful attempt to refinish it myself. With the frame and slide completely void of pins, springs, and retaining screws, I tried the test again. This time, I heard the "glass".
It was pretty shocking, to say the least. I was so curious as to what it meant that I detail stripped my 75B for the sole reason of having a modern-day comparison. The 75B sounded different with it's lack of knick-knacks as well, but the sound was no where near as dramatic as the vintage model's transformation. It was a very strange event.
So, since then, I've been reluctant to completely dismiss the super steel legend as fabrication. There IS something different about the type of steel used in today's construction compared to the vintage models'. Whether or not its a good kind of different is up for debate, considering the fact that I feel that CZ has only improved since the days of the Spanish casting. As a whole, CZ seems to churn out less lemons and crappy products than some otehr manufacturers. Its a very impressive company. Our auto industry should take a few notes from the Czech playbook.
I urge any vintage CZ 75/85 owner to put this old myth up to the test. Lightly tap your slide against your frame, and compare the noise it makes to any other semi-auto you own, and pay close attention to the difference. You may find yourself pleasantly suprised!
I may also be re-attempting a refinish on the old girl in the coming months. If and when I do so, I will make an effort to video tape the "tap test" for everyone's consideration.
Post by: Cliff47 on February 22, 2009, 05:00:06 PM
Not knowing the grade of steel that was used in the early CZ75, versus what went into the production models that we find now, the steel seems more than hard enough.
Post by: lazyengineer on March 02, 2009, 10:31:45 PM
There IS something different about the type of steel used in today's construction compared to the vintage models'. Whether or not its a good kind of different is up for debate, considering the fact that I feel that CZ has only improved since the days of the Spanish casting.
You may be right. I use a 1979 CZ75 for my fun 9mm and for IDPA. I've shot it several thousand rounds, including several magazines of +P and of 147 gr police loads. It had been shot God only knows how many times before I got it. Yet the slide rails are crisp and square - freakisly so. It's got a new hammer, new slide stop, new grip panels, most of the springs have been replaced, and I painted the sights with model glue to make them easier to see. But the main components of this 1979 gun (slide/barrel/frame) are holding up remarkably well.
Prior to this, I had a CZ-75 Pre B (1985's I think, maybe 1989 - it was Serial Number J565x - I wonder where it is today?). In several thousand rounds I noticed the slide rails lost a lot of their edge.
Can't say anything about the glass sound though - haven't tested that.
Post by: vidiot on March 06, 2009, 02:13:01 PM
I also ordered the book "CZ 75: Birth of a Legend" from the CZ-USA site. I wonder if anyone on here has it and if it's any good. I'm specifically interested in the production information for the early models. It was only $5.99 plus shipping.
Cheers,
-Craig
Post by: CM Rich on March 06, 2009, 06:47:51 PM
If you don't me spoiling it for you, here's what the production numbers are, according to the book:
1975- 54
1976- 18
1977- 2,000
1978- 6,047
1979- 6,650
1980- 9,000
1981- 13,000
1982- 22,000
It should be noted that 1975 and 1976 was mostly spent with the pistol being submitted for Czech export and proofing, as well as initial bug testing, so the real mass production didn't start until 1977. So excluding the first two years, the short-rail design was only around for three model years, yielding a scant 14,697 examples being made. Considering many of these pistols went on to be police pistols in various countries, as it was marketed as a service pistol instead of an enthusiats pistol due to the Com Bloc embargo, the original short-rail model really is a rarity here in the States.
Almost 1967 Shelby GT500 rare.
I do wish the book was a big longer, but for 6 bucks its well worth that money and more. I'd love to see CZ publish an even more in-depth hardcover book, with about as many development and technical pictures as possible.
Post by: tekarra on March 07, 2009, 08:31:43 AM
Post by: SDDLUP on March 08, 2009, 11:02:52 PM
Post by: Clyde from Carolina on March 09, 2009, 06:11:48 AM
Post by: dalewelch on July 13, 2009, 02:51:28 PM
I looked for the book on the cz-usa site and couldn't find it. Anyone have a link?
Thanks,
Post by: Karen on August 09, 2009, 09:52:46 PM
Post by: CM Rich on August 09, 2009, 10:02:48 PM
I don't believe the Spanish cast frames had any distinctive markings. If they do, I'm not aware of them, but I wouldn't doubt it, either.
In any case, I don't think all of the 1980's frames were Spanish-cast. I believe only a relative handful were released before CZ caught on to what was happening. The best advice I can give you is to be careful of any gun dated 1980.
This would be the part where an actual owner of a 1980 model would step in...Anybody?
Post by: Karen on August 09, 2009, 10:07:38 PM
Post by: CM Rich on August 09, 2009, 10:16:44 PM
And, as I checked up on that, the Spanish cast frames lasted all the way until 1982-83. That was when CZ's own investment casting facility was ready to go.
So, I'd be leery of 1980-83 marked guns. I know there's going to be some owners of these guns here on this forum that will debat me on this, and they have the right to do so if they've never had a problem with their guns before. However, CZ, through the "Legend" book, pretty much tells us the same thing. Take that for what you will.
Post by: Karen on August 09, 2009, 10:20:09 PM
Post by: CM Rich on August 09, 2009, 10:27:43 PM
Post by: Doubs43 on August 30, 2009, 02:45:58 PM
Secondly, I have no idea if my frame is Spanish or Czech but you may be assured of one thing: It met CZ specs or it wasn't used. I've put many thousands of rounds - mostly cast bullet reloads - through mine since I bought it new in England and if there is any wear to slide or frame, I can't detect it. Except for minor edge wear on the finish (VERY minor) the pistol is still 99%. Spanish guns gained a horrible reputation for improperly hardened steel back in the 1920's when many thousands of poorly made guns were turned out. Fairly or unfairly, the reputation has lingered and is often repeated as fact where new Spanish guns are concerned. Anyone who owns a Star or Astra pistol or AyA shotgun knows that modern Spanish guns are well made and properly hardened.
My 1981 CZ came back to the States with me in 1987 before they could be imported for commercial sale so it's not import marked. The last three digits of the serial number were electro-pencil etched on the two magazines which have a parkerized finish. The CZ-75B I bought yesterday has two blued mags that are unmarked. I plan on doing a photo comparison of the two in the near future to show the changes that have been made. There are more than I had imagined at first.
Post by: earthtone55 on June 18, 2010, 12:43:35 PM
Much as I love legends about unbreakable swords dredged from the bottom of a lake (or in this case urban myths about extra-tough steel in romanticized guns from obscure locations), frankly, I can't give them much stock.
Its fair to say that there have been more than a few types of pistols manufactured around the globe over the years. Why should anyone believe that somehow Commie-Bloc CZ managed to come up with a unique and unprecedently strong steel alloy not seen before or since?
If they did. . .why aren't they using it anymore? One can imagine all sorts of reasons why tougher steels could be useful in various applications. If this special alloy existed, there would be good reasons to use it in other guns or products.
I'm not really interested in detail-stripping my pre-B to listen for the "glass" like sound, but even stipulating for the sake of argument that a naked CZ frame does make a sound like that on tapping, I don't think you can draw *ANY* conclusions about the strength of the pistol from that sound!
It probably has more to do with the SHAPE of the frame, than its composition or intrinsic tensile strength.
Post by: Radom on June 27, 2010, 07:30:19 PM
Post by: Clausewitz on February 12, 2017, 08:48:50 AM
Post by: M1A4ME on February 12, 2017, 05:35:25 PM
My Pre B CZ85 had a light brown dust packed under the grips, around the grips screws and the oil/grease inside was gritty as can be. Middle eastern dust. The pistol was sold as an Israeli surplus gun.
This happened at the range a couple trips back. The gun went bang (4th or 5th shot) several times and then didn't. When I changed focus to the gun I could see the slide wasn't completely forward. When I racked the slide to clear what I thought was failure to feed this fell out and the slide still didn't go into battery.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/zsrbest/IMG_0314_zpsrihsfdbr.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/zsrbest/media/IMG_0314_zpsrihsfdbr.jpg.html)
The rest of the case was left in the barrel.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/zsrbest/IMG_0313_zpsz3faq7cd.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/zsrbest/media/IMG_0313_zpsz3faq7cd.jpg.html)
I had to take the barrel out to get the rest of the case out of the chamber/barrel.
(http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn298/zsrbest/IMG_0320_zps5k7dj2hp.jpg) (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/zsrbest/media/IMG_0320_zps5k7dj2hp.jpg.html)
The only evidence inside the pistol was some extra "crud/residue" from the burnt powder/gas that was released when the case head separated from the case walls.
Tough as a tank. And mine isn't made from the extra special steel. Imagine how tough those are.
Post by: SPO1SHADOW on February 19, 2017, 12:23:35 PM
Post by: Clausewitz on February 24, 2017, 11:40:14 AM
(http://www.hkpro.com/forum/members/44724-albums130-picture95394.jpg)
According to CZ there were 54 guns made in 1975 and 18 made in 1976.
In 1977 2,000 guns were made, marking the start of production.
From this production information I have to assume that the 54 1975 guns began with serial number 01001, possibly making my gun above the second production CZ75.
My lowest serial CZ75, other than this one, is a 1977 #11692.
So, how did the serial numbers get from 01002 in 1975 to 11692 at some point in 1977, when officially only 2,072 guns were made during that time period?
Post by: vidiot on February 24, 2017, 12:07:40 PM
(http://www.hkpro.com/forum/members/44724-albums130-picture95386.jpg)
(http://www.hkpro.com/forum/members/44724-albums130-picture95394.jpg)
According to CZ there were 54 guns made in 1975 and 18 made in 1976.
In 1977 2,000 guns were made, marking the start of production.
From this production information I have to assume that the 54 1975 guns began with serial number 01001, possibly making my gun above the second production CZ75.
My lowest serial CZ75, other than this one, is a 1977 #11692.
So, how did the serial numbers get from 01002 in 1975 to 11692 at some point in 1977, when officially only 2,072 guns were made during that time period?
I also wonder this however I am more interested in how you ended up with the second gun ever made. I thought those first 50 guns went mostly to foreign officials. Just curious what country you're in? You got any history on that 01002 you got?
Post by: Clausewitz on February 24, 2017, 12:33:16 PM
Do you agree based on the serial number evidence that it is very likely the second CZ75 produced?
The number ranges are pretty wacky. It simply doesn't seem possible that 1001 guns were made in 1975 before this one.
Post by: vidiot on February 24, 2017, 01:20:27 PM
I don't have any juicy, Red October history on the pistol for you, sorry. Who knows how this Capt Ramius was able to defect.
Do you agree based on the serial number evidence that it is very likely the second CZ75 produced?
The number ranges are pretty wacky. It simply doesn't seem possible that 1001 guns were made in 1975 before this one.
Looking at this youtube video where this guy tours the CZ factory they show him the first gun off the line and it's number is 00001. She says it was made in 1975 but there are some small differences like the grips and the hammer shape. I'm thinking the first production guns for distributions made in 1975 started with 10001. So in that sense yours would be #2.
https://youtu.be/t5xmDEIQ9RA?t=2m36s (https://youtu.be/t5xmDEIQ9RA?t=2m36s)
I was just hoping you could share how it came into your possession? I'm in the US and I have a 1977 model and a 1978 model both found on gunbroker before the prices went insane. I love the history of these pistols.
Post by: Clausewitz on February 24, 2017, 01:32:31 PM
I don't have any juicy, Red October history on the pistol for you, sorry. Who knows how this Capt Ramius was able to defect.
Do you agree based on the serial number evidence that it is very likely the second CZ75 produced?
The number ranges are pretty wacky. It simply doesn't seem possible that 1001 guns were made in 1975 before this one.
Looking at this youtube video where this guy tours the CZ factory they show him the first gun off the line and it's number is 00001. She says it was made in 1975 but there are some small differences like the grips and the hammer shape. I'm thinking the first production guns for distributions made in 1975 started with 10001. So in that sense yours would be #2.
https://youtu.be/t5xmDEIQ9RA?t=2m36s (https://youtu.be/t5xmDEIQ9RA?t=2m36s)
I was just hoping you could share how it came into your possession? I'm in the US and I have a 1977 model and a 1978 model both found on gunbroker before the prices went insane. I love the history of these pistols.
So the first gun off the line was 00001. It was made simply to be the first and to be hung on a wall at the company.
Then the first run of 54 guns was made, starting with 01001 to 01054?
I imagine the number ranges were purposely embellished to bolster the image?
If so, it would be interesting to know the system used. My 1977 is 11692. That would be quite a few guns in 1977 to get to 11692.
Post by: vidiot on February 24, 2017, 01:44:15 PM
I don't have any juicy, Red October history on the pistol for you, sorry. Who knows how this Capt Ramius was able to defect.
Do you agree based on the serial number evidence that it is very likely the second CZ75 produced?
The number ranges are pretty wacky. It simply doesn't seem possible that 1001 guns were made in 1975 before this one.
Looking at this youtube video where this guy tours the CZ factory they show him the first gun off the line and it's number is 00001. She says it was made in 1975 but there are some small differences like the grips and the hammer shape. I'm thinking the first production guns for distributions made in 1975 started with 10001. So in that sense yours would be #2.
https://youtu.be/t5xmDEIQ9RA?t=2m36s (https://youtu.be/t5xmDEIQ9RA?t=2m36s)
I was just hoping you could share how it came into your possession? I'm in the US and I have a 1977 model and a 1978 model both found on gunbroker before the prices went insane. I love the history of these pistols.
So the first gun off the line was 00001. It was made simply to be the first and to be hung on a wall at the company.
Then the first run of 54 guns was made, starting with 01001 to 01054?
I imagine the number ranges were purposely embellished to bolster the image?
If so, it would be interesting to know the system used. My 1977 is 11692. That would be quite a few guns in 1977 to get to 11692.
I guess this is what I was thinking also. My '77 is 11169.
Post by: Psyop96 on February 24, 2017, 02:40:46 PM
In another book by the same co-authors, it states that in March 1976 the "?Z model 75" was approved and released for series production, which officially commenced on 1 June 1977.
Unfortunately, no information on the serial number scheme beyond the first five samples is provided and also no data on what the pistols beyond these first five were used for before approval for serial production. Based on the serial numbers on both of your 1977 pistols that you have both graciously supplied, one might be tempted to think it possibly started with 10000 or 11000 so there would be a gap of unused serial numbers. Also, there would be gaps (possibly for control purposes) between acquisition patterns/samples and future patterns as the pistol was developed for serial production approval in March 1976. All the more fascinating with these gaps in information!
There is a photo in the books of ser. no. 01010 from 1975 that is a mere few numbers away from Clausewitz's no. 01002. The photo is b/w so it's difficult to compare the finishes (it almost looks brushed) between the two. Thanks for sharing the photos and updating this old thread.
Edit - one other note regarding serial numbers, there is a photo of prototype no. 002 in the book which appears to bolster the case for jumping around with serial number ranges for specific pistols during this period.
Post by: Clausewitz on February 24, 2017, 02:53:56 PM
http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?43222-CZ75-from-1975-S-N-01010 (http://forums.gunboards.com/showthread.php?43222-CZ75-from-1975-S-N-01010)
Here is 01049 from this site:
(http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac80/Robinjo712/P1030368.jpg)
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=2459.180 (http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=2459.180)
Post by: Tok36 on February 24, 2017, 03:19:46 PM
Post by: Clausewitz on February 24, 2017, 03:25:51 PM
I am glad this thread got bumped. Interesting stuff.
So true. I love this stuff.
Post by: Psyop96 on February 24, 2017, 05:08:41 PM
Post by: Clausewitz on February 25, 2017, 01:08:43 PM
I guess CZ went the extra mile in 1975:
(http://www.hkpro.com/forum/members/44724-albums130-picture95714.jpg)
Unfortunately it didn't come with a box or test target.
Post by: Psyop96 on February 25, 2017, 01:35:13 PM
Post by: Clausewitz on February 25, 2017, 01:42:12 PM
It only came with one mag.
Post by: Clausewitz on February 25, 2017, 01:47:02 PM
Post by: vidiot on February 25, 2017, 02:22:12 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/guns-for-sale/6156510454/in/photostream/
That is an awesome photo album!
Post by: Clausewitz on February 25, 2017, 02:26:07 PM
http://www.flickr.com/photos/guns-for-sale/6156510454/in/photostream/
That is an awesome photo album!
You first posted it! ;D
Post by: briang2ad on February 25, 2017, 05:46:52 PM
http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=larry+vickers+cz+75&qpvt=larry+vickers+cz+75&view=detail&mid=1076FE626679A86D237D1076FE626679A86D237D&FORM=VRDGAR
Post by: K3JB on February 28, 2017, 03:56:06 PM
It states CZ Model 75 exported by Merkuria, Praha. With a serial number of D 9127.
It is in mint condition, nor sure it had been fired before a shot a few mags. If anyone
has any info on the time period, that would be great.
Post by: Psyop96 on February 28, 2017, 04:40:59 PM
Post by: K3JB on February 28, 2017, 06:18:14 PM
Post by: Psyop96 on February 28, 2017, 06:22:23 PM
Thanks, will have to learn how to post a picture. I should know this >:(If you have a mobile device, it's super easy with the Tapatalk app as it feeds right from your photo library. Otherwise, you'll need a host site and follow the directions on the FAQ on the welcome page.
Post by: K3JB on March 04, 2017, 06:34:50 AM
but they have gone dull are are hard to pick up at the range. Tried using a Q tips with a little light detergent, but that did not solve the problem. Another dilemma, should I just shoot it in its completely stock condition or send it off to CGW to be smoothed out?
Post by: M1A4ME on March 04, 2017, 09:15:07 AM
Now, I have not yet done this myself. I have wondered about it and intend to try it at some point.
The dots are small round holes drilled or pressed into the rear face of the sights. With some type of white paint applied into the hole to make the sights stand out better.
I've wondered if I could take a small drill bit and turn it with my fingers to dig/remove the white paint from the holes in the sights. And then use that white glow in the dark paint to drip into the holes to make not just white dots for daylight use but glow in the dark (for a few hours after being powered up by a flashlight or other light source).
I've used this paint in one pistol sight when the factory white dot fell out.
http://www.glow-on.com/
Post by: Krgolob on April 17, 2017, 03:08:30 PM
I've checked many models on internet (forums, auction houses) and this is my conclusion.
All '75 and '76 models have 01xxx serial numbers except first prototype batch (00001...). The highest '75 serial number I found was 01072, which is contradictory to number of CZ75 produced in 1975 (54). Nevertheless I assume that those pre-serial production pistols were labeled 01xxx and the true serial production started with 10xxx.
The serial production as mentioned started in 1977 and all '77 models have numbers from 10xxx to 12xxx, lowest I found was 10334, highest 11xxx. This is more or less in line with 2000 early short-rails produced in 1977.
Lowest 1978 number I found was 12493 and I guess they were numbered till 18xxx.
1979 models were numbered till 24xxx (I found one '79 with serial 19xxx).
As mentioned on this forum, short-rail were produced till 1980 with highest known serial number 256xx, which is in line with my assumption that the counting started at 10000. There were 14.697 short-rails produced from 1977 till the end of 1979, so the first short rail produced in 1980 should have serial number 10000+14697= 24697. So there were arround 1.500 short-rails produced in 1980, the rest of 9.000 were pre-Bs.
First pre-production batch with serial numbers 010xx
1975- 54
1976- 18
Production batch with serial from 10000.
1977- 2,000 produced with serials from 10000 till 12xxx
1978- 6,047 produced with serials from 12xxx till 18xxx
1979- 6,650 produced with serials from 18xxx till 24xxx
1980- ~1,500 produced with serials till 26xxx
Post by: Psyop96 on April 17, 2017, 06:12:39 PM
It would be great to know if the pre-B started with 26000 one of these days. Welcome to the forum.
Post by: Krgolob on April 18, 2017, 03:58:44 AM
It would be great to know if the pre-B started with 26000 one of these days.
The earliest pre-B was published on this forum HERE (http://"http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=85948.0"), serial number 261xx, together with short rail #256xx, both from '80. So in between there has to been the transition, but if pre-B actually started with 26xxx is yet unknown.
Post by: Clausewitz on April 20, 2017, 10:36:19 AM
Post by: Clausewitz on April 20, 2017, 02:38:53 PM
(http://www.hkpro.com/forum/members/44724-albums130-picture95394.jpg)
It appears it is indeed the second production gun. The only one listed before it is 01001.
01002 was shipped from the factory to West Germany in January of 1976.
I was talking with a friend about this gun and possible reasons why it would have been sent to West Germany in 1976, and with a big smile on his face he sent me this:
(http://www.hkpro.com/forum/members/44724-albums162-picture107402.jpg)
(http://www.hkpro.com/forum/members/44724-albums162-picture107410.jpg)
(http://www.hkpro.com/forum/members/44724-albums162-picture107418.jpg)
(http://www.hkpro.com/forum/members/44724-albums162-picture107426.jpg)
(http://www.hkpro.com/forum/members/44724-albums162-picture107434.jpg)
That is an article about the new pistol from CZ. It is from April 1976.
And the coolest thing is that the featured pistol is CZ75 01002. That's why it left the factory and was sent to West Germany.
Gun collecting is fun.
Post by: Psyop96 on April 20, 2017, 03:21:01 PM
Post by: Tok36 on April 20, 2017, 03:29:12 PM
Post by: romukom on April 20, 2017, 04:14:20 PM
Post by: Lion122 on April 21, 2017, 10:09:01 AM
Sent from my SM-A700F using Tapatalk
Post by: racoonbeast on April 28, 2017, 10:52:13 AM
I am wondering if the references to "super steel" are related to their use of this steel at some point in their manufacture?