The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => VZ-58 semi auto rifle => Topic started by: zuko514 on September 17, 2012, 02:17:10 AM
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hi guys! I recently purchased a vz2008. last night I accidently took apart the return of spring.my first thought was I snapped the return spring guide in half :-[. Anyway now I have a hell of time putting it back together. Any advice or tricks on how to reinstall the return spring?
this is a dumb rookie question. would it be better if i superglue the recoil spring guide and block together?
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Not my advice. From here:
http://canadiangunnutz.com/forum/showthread.php?t=546226
"From my oct 2007 thread on "how to re-install recoil spring in less than a minute for vz58".
http://www.canadiangunnutz.com/forum...d.php?t=189025
the only tool i needed was a drinking straw , i used the ones that bend near the top (thinner than the milk shakes type).
1. slide the straw over the spring retaining wire , all the way to the end of the wire, it should fit snuggly.
2. slide the recoil spring all the way in.
3. place the rear end of the top cover firmly on the table (preferrably on a non-skid pad or the wife will kill ya, lol) and using both hands grab the spring and push it down till it passes the top of the retaining wire(you can see it thru the straw). taking the next two pic was no easy task due to the pressure from the spring, luckily i kept it steady and it didnt fly away.
4. hold the spring firmly with your fingers (thumb, index ) while the remaining fingers (middle, ring and pinky) gripping the top cover, once that is done, release the other hand and pull up the straw, exposing the top of the wire.
5. with the free hand put the spring retainer piece on top of the wire to lock the spring in, easy way is to line up the two wire with the grooves on the side of the retainer piece and rotate the piece with your fingers and the wire will line up to locking position... note my fingers was turning purple due to it took longer than a minute to take pics. "
Hope it helps.
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Same instructions I followed when I was fiddling with the return spring assembly. Don't think I'll be taking mine apart again unless the springs needs replaced.
We should probably steer clear of the super-glue for now ;D
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I put it together with the recoil block and guide sticking out the side of spring. Then (wearing gloves) firmly grasp the part of the spring between the cover and recoil block and use my other hand to turn the cover clockwise, threading the block through the spring. Works like a charm, but be careful it is not pointed at anyone or anything fragile, if you slip you can shoot the whole assembly.
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For all of the recent purchasers of the Century VZ2008 with the extras and of course all other owners of VZ58 type rifles. I discovered how to use the cleaning tools included with the rifle to reinstall the recoil spring, guide and retainer. Hopefully this information will help others not to launch their retainers into unknown areas, never to be seen again. After launching my retainer, I looked online for more info into how to reinstall the spring, guide and retainer. I found several very good ideas right here on this forum. I started to think of how the spring, guide and retainer would be installed if I was a member of the Czech military. I checked out the cleaning tools and spotted slots on each side of the slotted cleaning patch holder, that are the right size to hold the guide wire. Now put the two pieces of the cleaning rod together and install the patch holder. Place the guide on the other guide attached to the top cover, place the open ends of the guide wire on the patch holder. Now slide the recoil spring over the cleaning rod with the guide wire attached. With the extra length and weight of the cleaning rod attached, you can compress the spring fairly easily, making sure the guide wire is at its max length. After the spring is compressed enough to remove the cleaning rod from the guide wire, you can now install the retainer and slowly release the spring and it will be held by the retainer. A lot more words are needed here than to do this procedure. It took me about 5 minutes to accomplish, of course, after the replacement retainer arrived in the mail. Sorry no pictures. Any questions? I hope this helps!
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Sounds like a great idea. I tried the methods mentioned above and found the straw to be the fastest and easiest. I'm definitely going to try the cleaning tools.
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For all of the recent purchasers of the Century VZ2008 with the extras and of course all other owners of VZ58 type rifles. I discovered how to use the cleaning tools included with the rifle to reinstall the recoil spring, guide and retainer. Hopefully this information will help others not to launch their retainers into unknown areas, never to be seen again. After launching my retainer, I looked online for more info into how to reinstall the spring, guide and retainer. I found several very good ideas right here on this forum. I started to think of how the spring, guide and retainer would be installed if I was a member of the Czech military. I checked out the cleaning tools and spotted slots on each side of the slotted cleaning patch holder, that are the right size to hold the guide wire. Now put the two pieces of the cleaning rod together and install the patch holder. Place the guide on the other guide attached to the top cover, place the open ends of the guide wire on the patch holder. Now slide the recoil spring over the cleaning rod with the guide wire attached. With the extra length and weight of the cleaning rod attached, you can compress the spring fairly easily, making sure the guide wire is at its max length. After the spring is compressed enough to remove the cleaning rod from the guide wire, you can now install the retainer and slowly release the spring and it will be held by the retainer. A lot more words are needed here than to do this procedure. It took me about 5 minutes to accomplish, of course, after the replacement retainer arrived in the mail. Sorry no pictures. Any questions? I hope this helps!
Not sure I follow. Possible you can sling some pictures onto here?
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This works flawlessly, I used this method last week!
(the straw method)
Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk
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In preparation for spring/summer shooting season, I've been replacing all my springs with new...
The straw, screwdriver, and other methods with the recoil spring work well for used springs... But for brand new, I found that Obi's method was the only one I could get to work... Tried until my hands were cramping with the others and more... Found the newest and closest variation of above methods to be the pointed sight tool from the cleaning kit that was good for compressing most of the spring on top cover solid post (would slide nicely into gap where wire loop hinges on top cover post and slide between spring runs) but couldn't get the last two or so inches this way due to running out of space between the spring loops to get the tool into when nearly fully compressed...
To the Obi method:
Basically, you
1) install the wire loop (if not installed) and then the spring over that and the main post on the top cover.
2) Then you put both ends of the wire loop through the same turn gap in the recoil spring.
3) Install the end cap. Wire loop ends go in, not out as they are often found on VZ2008s. Ensure the loop isn't twisted with top cap installed or else it will bind (and break if you don't catch it during hand cycling.)
4) Grab spring below the end cap with your support hand.
5) Twist top cover in a clockwise direction while holding spring securely w/ your support hand. That will slowly loop sling onto post below top cap.
6) As you near the end/spring fully threaded onto top cover, the support hand may need to push in towards top cover to relieve some tension on the spring end/top cap (always a good idea to have a firm grip regardless w/ support hand on spring).
7) Once spring is fully onto the top cover, it will seat itself, but keep an eye on the top cap and wire loop! (Wire loops are cheap and worth replacing w/ your springs if you have a VZ2008 IMO).
And always ensure that spring and top piece are pointed away from people/pets/breakables...
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For all of the recent purchasers of the Century VZ2008 with the extras and of course all other owners of VZ58 type rifles. I discovered how to use the cleaning tools included with the rifle to reinstall the recoil spring, guide and retainer.
good thinking!, can you post a pic or two (or a vid) ??
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I put my receiver in a vice wrapped in a cloth as not to scratch with the end angled down so the wire loop would hang down. Then I used big slot screwdriver to compress the spring until the end of the wire was exposed. This is almost a two person job LOL
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Telling you this is by and far the way to go... Incredibly much easier than all the other methods I've tried... It does leave you w/ a reduced sense of accomplishment however as it's just so quick and easy!
In preparation for spring/summer shooting season, I've been replacing all my springs with new...
The straw, screwdriver, and other methods with the recoil spring work well for used springs... But for brand new, I found that Obi's method was the only one I could get to work... Tried until my hands were cramping with the others and more... Found the newest and closest variation of above methods to be the pointed sight tool from the cleaning kit that was good for compressing most of the spring on top cover solid post (would slide nicely into gap where wire loop hinges on top cover post and slide between spring runs) but couldn't get the last two or so inches this way due to running out of space between the spring loops to get the tool into when nearly fully compressed...
To the Obi method:
Basically, you
1) install the wire loop (if not installed) and then the spring over that and the main post on the top cover.
2) Then you put both ends of the wire loop through the same turn gap in the recoil spring.
3) Install the end cap. Wire loop ends go in, not out as they are often found on VZ2008s. Ensure the loop isn't twisted with top cap installed or else it will bind (and break if you don't catch it during hand cycling.)
4) Grab spring below the end cap with your support hand.
5) Twist top cover in a clockwise direction while holding spring securely w/ your support hand. That will slowly loop sling onto post below top cap.
6) As you near the end/spring fully threaded onto top cover, the support hand may need to push in towards top cover to relieve some tension on the spring end/top cap (always a good idea to have a firm grip regardless w/ support hand on spring).
7) Once spring is fully onto the top cover, it will seat itself, but keep an eye on the top cap and wire loop! (Wire loops are cheap and worth replacing w/ your springs if you have a VZ2008 IMO).
And always ensure that spring and top piece are pointed away from people/pets/breakables...
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Man I wish you would make a Nube-tube video showing how you do this. I still can't quite get my head around it.
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Sorry don't do youtube. But here are some pics. These are quick and dirty "auto correct" and I didn't bother to color equalize, so sorry for the variance in those...
Uninstall
First, pull spring down.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7645/16960297085_286c1c503a.jpg)
Next slide down the spring stop.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7603/16772821630_32e9b88e3d_z.jpg)
After that, twist spring stop 1/2 turn.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7605/16960293775_e7dc65dd07.jpg)
Lift stop up and off. Then slowly release pressure on your spring. And then remove the spring.
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Parts Inspection
Recoil spring guide wire, should have a continuous circle, not a collapsed middle. Not critical to replace I suppose but a good idea. A collapsing guide wire (all will collapse slightly with recoil spring tension when installed) just adds increased friction when operating. You should be lubing the recoil spring guide wire and fixed recoil spring post location to minimize wear/friction during operation. The insides of the wire loop rub against the fixed post everytime the action cycles -- perhaps part of the reason why used ones collapse inward, friction removed material leads to less strength and collapsing...
New top, well used bottom.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8688/16752904167_a65d2f6b59_z.jpg)
Striker Springs
When charging these can kink when well used and bind the action. They can and will kink and be nearly destroyed if you don't ensure that the striker spring is inside the striker hole. (Temp fix is to reverse striker spring so kink part is on the striker spring post but it needs replaced.)
Top 2 are used, and bottom 2 are new.
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7640/16934344866_1d6b370be5_z.jpg)
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7640/16934344866_1d6b370be5_z.jpg)
Recoil springs
Top 2 are used and bottom one is new:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7645/16774073569_b3a11957fd.jpg)
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Installation
1. Install recoil spring wire loop onto top cover
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7598/16934341386_2deb2b78c1.jpg)
2. Install spring to base/back of top cover. You should be able to to shake the wire loop back down...
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7655/16772812150_8138d5b87f.jpg)
3. Pull wire loop ends through the same spring turn:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7601/16772586888_041327b201.jpg)
4. Install locking piece in reverse steps of uninstall.
Spread wire arms with locking ins pointing out and slide on locking block
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8720/16752894887_1c69cf707a_z.jpg)
Turn locking block 1/2 turn so tips align most of the way. And ensure that your wire loop is a looped and NOT crossed/binded. If it's crossed, you should have 1/2 turned the other direction, so now a full turn in the opposite direction.
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7608/16960282445_128a78ba4b.jpg)
Slide locking block up to secure. Ends point in!
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7624/16337910354_646747481a.jpg)
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5. Grab spring in your hand. And then turn top cover clockwise. Turning the top cover will rotate the fixed recoil post, the recoil wire spring guide, and the locking piece, thereby threading on the spring one loop w/ each turn.
Note: Just had my thumb on the locking piece to secure for the pic. Don't need it there when turning, just ensure locking piece is pointed in a safe direction...
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7640/16960280475_78a45d1e22_z.jpg)
About 2/3rds of the spring installed -- as you get closer to the end, you'll want to pull threaded spring down away from locking piece to avoid it binding on the top locking piece.
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8712/16959322531_dbcb885527_z.jpg)
About 90% of the spring installed:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7630/16772580398_fba2087794.jpg)
One and one-half loops left to go:
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8706/16772802790_6f80428c1a_z.jpg)
One-half loop left to go:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7599/16340198163_edb9eea3b7_z.jpg)
Installed -- as you can see in the pic, below, the spring likes to stack at the end (why when installing it's good to pull the spring down and have some downward tension on the spring a few inches below the top locking piece, so that not all spring tension is there:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7603/16958933412_b0e012d1e5.jpg)
If you don't counteract some the spring tension, this can happen (spring is winding on against top locking piece and binding -- continuing to turn will turn the end of the wire guide and end up popping your top piece and shooting your spring) -- to fix, you might be able to turn counter clockwise to fix, but pulling down the spring manually (both threaded and unthreaded portions of the spring, pull the spring as one piece and don't stretch it out) and refixing the top piece as done at start is a doable backup option too -- much easier to adjust the top locking piece this way than when trying to brute force the spring on with other methods shared:
(https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7645/16752883187_0f1612a6ef.jpg)
6. One installed, place the locking piece against floor or table and press down to ensure it functions properly (basically just checking to ensure the wire loop was a loop and not crossed... (Spring will untwist itself to degree needed during cycling -- and just the thin diameter nature of the wire loop makes it look more twisted than it actually is -- in reality it's more of a wave than a twist due to how the spring is tensioned.)
(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8723/16960270985_2e7124a573_z.jpg)
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Hope this helps. And I do have a few new production spring sets (both regular and chromed recoil, striker, and piston), I've been looking to part with, so send me a PM if interested there.
I also see value in replacing your mag release and bolt release springs as well. The only new production retail source I'm aware of for these is Czechpoint. But you'll occasionally see new old stock parts kits ones as well. Extractor spring is another definite to have, and the disconnector spring doesn't hurt to have on hand either.
Remember that century guns are built from parts kits and quality and condition of each spring they use will vary in condition as that recoil spring pic especially showed...
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I found this very helpful - thanks! I added this thread to the links sticky.
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A friend in the Czech Republic mentioned that their soldiers use a bootlace to install the recoil spring. I had to install new springs so I decided to see if I could figure out what they might be doing. Here is my recipe for the "bootlace trick". I think it's faster and easier on the fingers than the Obi method, YMMV.
1. Fold a piece of 550 paracord in half and pull** the doubled cord through the recoil spring.
2. Install the wire loop on the hole at the end of the dust cover guide rod. Spread the jaws of the wire loop and hook them on the paracord loop. Pull the spring down the paracord, over the wire loop, and onto the guide rod.
3. Anchor the paracord on a doorknob or a sapling by tying the ends together with a sheet bend.
4. Making sure the wire loop is not twisted, compress the spring by pulling against the paracord until an inch or so of the wire loop is exposed.
5. Control the dust cover by pressing the end against your body or by pinching the spring between your thumb and forefinger. With your free hand put the retainer on the wire loop a little below the paracord, engaging one of the notches. Press the retainer into the wires with your thumb. As they spread apart the paracord pops off and the retainer snaps into place.
6. Gently release the spring onto the retainer. Done.
** If you have a cleaning kit assemble the 2 rods and the jag. Fit the wire loop around the paracord then spread the ends and hook them into the jag hole. There are slots on the side of the jag that engage the wires just like the retainer does. Slide the spring over the rod and pull the cord through. If you have no tools, put the wire loop around the cord then push it as far into the spring as you can. By compressing and releasing on opposite ends of the loop you can "walk" it up the spring in a couple of minutes.
EDIT: Just use a piece of string to pull the paracord through. Fold it in half, attach the wire loop and drop it through the spring. Put the wire loop jaws around the paracord then pull it back through the spring.
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For all of the recent purchasers of the Century VZ2008 with the extras and of course all other owners of VZ58 type rifles. I discovered how to use the cleaning tools included with the rifle to reinstall the recoil spring, guide and retainer.
good thinking!, can you post a pic or two (or a vid) ??
I've used the jag and rod several times with no issues.
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Updated picture links to not have full sizes -- unsure why flicrs 640s are coming in at fullsize for some now...
Regardless, audax -- that's an interesting route. Thanks for researching and sharing. It does sound like it's probably quicker. However, the obi method I posted puts no stress on the fingers. It's gripping strength from hand and just enough to keep the spring from pushing against the locking piece.
The main issue w/ any method other than obi's that I've tried is that there's a very good chance of spring slipping and retainer and/or spring to go flying.
CP - I can't say I fully get the cleaning rod trick. Assemble rod and put wire loop ends into cleaning kit jag cleaning patch loop, slide sling over, and then use the ridges on the jag to try and hold the spring in place?
Also want to reiterate the importance of keeping that wire loop lubricated as it slides over the topcover post. Definitely seems to take some wear there...
EDIT: audax -- thinking, the shoelace route: so take a flat shoelace or paracord w/ the inner removed. Loop it through the retainer and slide on the spring. Grab the ends of the shoelace/paracord and pull them apart, thereby pulling the spring down. You'd need a third hand most likely and the top cover against the chest, but would probably be easier than finding something to tie to.
Main challenge here is third hand needs vs w/ just two hands w/ the obi method...
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For all of the recent purchasers of the Century VZ2008 with the extras and of course all other owners of VZ58 type rifles. I discovered how to use the cleaning tools included with the rifle to reinstall the recoil spring, guide and retainer.
good thinking!, can you post a pic or two (or a vid) ??
I've used the jag and rod several times with no issues.
Sorry I have been away for quite awhile, I have been very busy at work and with my family. Thank you to CitizenPete for trying my technique. My technique worked for me and I am glad someone else also had success. I will try to post a picture or two to help support my technique. I will say, this problem with the recoil spring was the main reason I joined this forum, and tabbing my bolt carrier.