The Original CZ Forum

CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ CLONE CLUB => Topic started by: terry mc on May 06, 2014, 12:19:22 AM

Title: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 06, 2014, 12:19:22 AM
PART 1  SPRING KIT

Hi Guys,

A while ago, I had posted on some of the Stingray threads that I was about to do a full on Stingray.
Well plans do change.
After carrying it daily for 2 months, I reconsidered my purchase and then sold it for everything I had in it except tax.
Not bad for a 2 month rental.

So what I am going to customize is a 2013 model year Hard Chrome C-100.

It finally came in today, and I love it.
I PLAN TO DO THIS THREAD IN STAGES WITH PICTURES SO YOU CAN SEE THE DIFFERENCES AS IT PROGRESSES WITH THE DIFFERENT PARTS.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_3918_zps4b4282e5.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_3918_zps4b4282e5.jpg.html)

As most of you have read the fit and finish is nice on these with the machine work being even nicer.
Mine has a hard chrome slide with the Cerakote finish on the frame.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_3928_zps9475dcb3.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_3928_zps9475dcb3.jpg.html)
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_3937_zps089219ac.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_3937_zps089219ac.jpg.html)

My wife and I went to the range to pick it up and to do a little shooting.
I will make it a short range report.
Good news.
This thing has amazing mechanical accuracy out of the box.
When I did my part it shot a single ragged hole at 7 yards, period.
The trigger is far superior to the one I had on the Stingray, that one was a 2014 model.
Double action is still ridiculous but single action is nice and crisp with almost 0 camming of the hammer.
I was actually shocked by the amount of difference, the Stingray had a lot of camming more than a stock CZ.
Stock Grips are more comfortable than the Stingray as well.
Bad News.
The sights are awful.
I was amazed that at 7 yards I consistently shot 3" low, over and over again.
DexterGSP and I have both experienced this on the Tristar/ Caniks and this one was no exception.

Well lets look at some baselines.
I recently bought a Lyman trigger gauge so I can see how things develop on my projects.
Baseline Double Action "OVERLOAD" the stock trigger double action is in excess of the Lymans 12# limit and judging by the fact the trigger did not even budge I would say it is way over that probably 16-20 lbs!
Single Action is much better 5 lbs. 0 oz. and nice and crisp. (10 pull average)

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_3921_zpsf0f65935.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_3921_zpsf0f65935.jpg.html)

Here is a brief list of what is being done, OK not so brief.

Trigger Action
CGW Canik hammer and sear kit
CGW spring kit
CGW CZ 85 trigger with overtravel screw
CGW floating trigger pin
and full action polish by me.

Sights
CZC Tactical tritium rear sight
CZC 6.0mm tritium front sight

So for the first night, I am keeping the mods simple
Just the spring kit and the grips.
I want


And just for cosmetic
CZC Cocobolo Compact grips
Rob is too cool he brought out a bag of the compact grips and had me pick the grain pattern I liked the most.
It's nice to have those great guys at CZC in your city.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_3927_zps36793b51.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_3927_zps36793b51.jpg.html)

Installing the Spring kit is straight forward with the hardest part being removal of the firing pin retaining pin.
The kit comes with three springs, the hammer spring, the firing pin spring, and the firing pin lifter spring.
 In order to remove the firing pin you need to drift out the firing pin retaining pin you can see the hole in the slide in the middle of the serations below the reat sight. I did the removal with a 1/16" dift punch and I was lucky my rolled pin drifted out easily, I know others have had issues and have had to drill them out in some cases. I also like to push in on the firing pin from the hammer end while I do this to keep from scarring the firing pin with the punch.
Once the pin is out, push up on the Firing pin Block and you can pull the firing pin out the back.
Once it is out the Firing Pin Block can be pulled out the bottom.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_3940_zps7c91c410.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_3940_zps7c91c410.jpg.html)
Here you can see the holes for the Firing pin and the Firing pin Block.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_3938_zps629acf81.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_3938_zps629acf81.jpg.html)


Change the springs with the ones provided with the kit. and reverse the order above to reassemble.
One word of note here, I did order a spare Firing pin retaining pin just in case I had problems with the stock one, it is cheap insurance to keep you from having the gun set on your bench while you wait for parts.
Now for the Hammer spring, if you have not done this before, you will take the frame without the slide.
remove both grips
turn the frame upside down
make sure the hammer is dropped
Inside the grip/ magazine compartment you will see a flat piece of metal pull this toward the trigger until it comes loose at the butt of the gun.
Now use a punch, I like a tapered punch push down on the hammer spring retainer and while you have the retainer pressed,
you will press out a 1/16" pin that holds it in place by using a 1/16" punch pushing it out from side to side. (grip surface to grip surface)
carefully release pressure on the retainer, I say carefully as they like to launch across the room if you slide you finger or punch off before the spring is extended.
Remove the old spring, and reinstall the new spring.
Reassembly is reverse order of what you just did with one exception.
The magazine brake, aka that flat piece of steel, it can be a trick to get this reinstalled.
I was able to straighten the end of the magazine brake slightly and here is the tricky part.
While you press the hammer spring retainer down passed the retaining pin point as far as you can go, press the end of the magazine brake passed the hammer spring into the slot on the retainer, it really is a three hand act, because if you slip you will be searching for the retainer somewhere across the room.
Once you have it inserted slowly retract the hammer spring retainer until it is close to flush with the butt of the gun, at this point slide the retaining pin side to side holding the assembly in place.

WOW THAT WAS A MOUTHFULL.

upon reassembly, we can see the results.

Big difference for the DOUBLE ACTION, 
8 lbs. 6.5 0z. (10 pull average)  WAY, WAY BETTER THAN BEFORE and I have not polished anything yet!!


(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_3951_zps43a54fc9.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_3951_zps43a54fc9.jpg.html)

Single Action nice drop as well  4 lbs. 7.8 oz. ( just over a half pound drop from stock)
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_3960_zps6a8b6bb5.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_3960_zps6a8b6bb5.jpg.html)

Well one last thing for the night and I call it quits.
We just have to see what the new grips look like!

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_3957_zpsb00bf183.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_3957_zpsb00bf183.jpg.html)

Most of you could probably use a cliff notes version of this, but I wanted to write this also for the guys who have not tried these mods before.
Please feel free to give your opinions.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: RogerCZ75Bfan on May 06, 2014, 12:26:57 AM
Awesome! Love the pics and following the project. All my pistols are just stock but I'm taking notes in case I start tinkering in the future.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: jwc007 on May 06, 2014, 01:13:59 AM
Very Interesting Project and Excellent Photography!  8)
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: DexterGSP on May 06, 2014, 01:15:53 AM
Terry, great write up and loved the pictures.  I've heard that the older models (C-100) often shoot low and yours in no exception.  I'm still trying to figure out why Canik would release pistols like the C-100 and the Stingray-C that are so off from their point of aim.  Please keep us informed of your progress on the pistol.

We'll go shooting soon, Paul.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: flyingbrass on May 06, 2014, 02:54:02 AM
Hi Terry,

Nice pics.  I'm still waiting for my C-100 to even get out of the shipping stage where I ordered it.  I had better log off and go try to think about something else.  This waiting game isn't fun.

Jay
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 06, 2014, 03:14:31 AM
Thanks guys glad you are enjoying it.
Tomorrow Stage 2 hammer and sear kit.

flying brass,
I know what you mean, first I was waiting for parts then I up and decided to change guns so I started the wait over again.
Patience and in the end it will be worth it.


See you guys tomorrow, good night all,
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: p4R4d0x on May 06, 2014, 12:23:41 PM
Nice project, pictures, and write-up!  It will be interesting to see the results after each addition - I sort of wish I did mine in stages, for this purpose, but didn't want to open it up so many times, and I have the patience of a mosquito.  :)

I'm curious as to your thoughts on why the C-100 trigger is better than the Stingray's?  I have a late 2013 Stingray-C (with the fixed sights), and the trigger was worse even slightly broken in, than the straight out-of-the-box Tristar P-120 I just picked up, and I can't quite put my finger on why, since all of the internals appeared to be the same.  They're both wearing CGW goodies now, though, so that gap has been closed, but it was still strange/interesting.  I thought the stock Stingray and C-100 grips were the same, though?

I had an older adjustable-sight model Stingray-C, and didn't have any problems with POA/POI, but the new, fixed-sight one does shoot low like you guys are experiencing,  I wonder if maybe the sights that ended up on these newer models are meant for or calibrated for the full-size pistols and that missing slide length puts them off POA just enough to cause problems?  I'm not sure if that small difference is really enough to make such a huge difference, but I like to think that's more likely than Canik just putting on sights that are wrong, haha.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Genin on May 06, 2014, 02:45:16 PM
Terry,

Awesome thread and great photography with explanations! Thank you for posting it. You did break my heart with not doing the Stingray-C though hahaha.

This should be stickied so we can all reference it time-to-time. JWC, could you hook that up?
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 06, 2014, 04:10:29 PM
p4R4d0x,
 I really do not know why the differences.
Actually if anything the sear parts in this one look rougher made than the ones in the Stingray.
I know the untouched surfaces do not matter but these almost look industrial. You will see in the pictures tonight.
I know what you mean about the patience thing, it is all I can do to just take it one step at a time, I usually tear them down and do everything at once.
Todays process is actually way different than I normally do, I will be installing the sear and hammer by themselves with no polishing so everyone can see what the results are like for that and then compare to when it has been polished.

Genin,
Good to see you here!
I actually am going to borrow a friends Stingray to photograph a small detail that will help you and the other Stingray owners.
It may not be for a couple days but I promise I will take care of you!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Genin on May 06, 2014, 04:58:31 PM
Thank you. Good looking out.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: oldfrank on May 06, 2014, 08:03:15 PM
Good start to a really nice build. Great pictures. ;D
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: AZ_CZ on May 06, 2014, 08:04:26 PM
Nice write up. I'm going to follow along even though I promised myself not to do any more than a spring job on my L-120.





The sights look very nice!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 06, 2014, 08:07:21 PM


First thing for tonight,
I want to backtrack last night I did not install any pictures for the hammer spring install so I am going to add those here.

Here is pulling out the magazine brake from the hammer spring.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4000_zps67c84848.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4000_zps67c84848.jpg.html)

And here is a shot of depressing the hammer spring retainer and the cross pin partially pulled out.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4002_zps9f22c79f.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4002_zps9f22c79f.jpg.html)

Hopefully those images will help some of you that have not done this before.

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 06, 2014, 08:08:36 PM
AZ CZ,
Dont you know that is the worst thing you can do is promise yourself your NOT GOING TO DO SOMETHING.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: 75Plus on May 06, 2014, 08:42:38 PM
Terry, make yourself one of these tools. It will make servicing that hammer spring and mag brake a LOT easier.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=51650.msg316253#msg316253

Joe
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 06, 2014, 09:24:22 PM
PART 2 GRIPS AND HAMMER INSTALL

Okay,
Tonight is going to be cut a little short as work has interfered.

But I do have a couple things.

One many of you have noticed that the CZ grips do not fit quite right, others have manage to convince them to fit, myself included on the Stingray.

I notice on the C-100 that the grips fit terribly last night so I started looking closely at where they interfered.
I could get the screws to line up but the grips at the rear of the frame gaped, so I checked the dovetail at the front to see if I had good lockup at the front.
Affirmative, we have good lockup!
Looking at the butt of the gun I could see the problem and maybe this is why others have had fitment issues.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_3961_zpsd18dd832.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_3961_zpsd18dd832.jpg.html)
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_3970_zpse39c9432.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_3970_zpse39c9432.jpg.html)
In that photo you can see that the CZ grip has a long radius cut to the grip and the C-100 has an almost squared off frame causing interference.
If you slide the grips back to where the holes for the grip screw does not line up you can get the grip to fit flush at the back.
Seeing at I have these nice grips I did not want to modify the hole location so I came up with a different solution.

RECUT THE INSIDE OF THE GRIP TO MATCH THE FRAME ANGLE.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_3978_zps3699d2e8.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_3978_zps3699d2e8.jpg.html)
It took a lot of slow cutting, after all I did not want to destroy my new grips, But I gradually got the contour correct on both grips.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_3971_zps633b1664.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_3971_zps633b1664.jpg.html)
SLOW IS KEY HERE, LOW DREMEL SPEED AND SLOW SMOOTH HAND MOVEMENTS! it is too easy to slip and gouge the wood.

Big difference
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_3979_zps4d935df9.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_3979_zps4d935df9.jpg.html)

Special note here, I may look at thinning and fitting the grips from the inside more at a later date to get them thinner.
Thin they are not, 1.45" across so just about exactly the same width as the stock grips.

The other thing that I did manage to get done is get the hammer installed.

As with your other work first safety check the gun, then remove the slide.
Next remove the grips, and remove the Hammer spring as in part 1.

Next you need to remove the safety.
The Canik/Tristars have a detent safety, meaning they have a spring and ball on the back side of the safety that may fly off if you are not careful.
They differ from CZ on this as CZ has a catch inside the gun that can be pulled back with a dental pick.
First step to remove the safety is down in the sear cage the Sear spring rests in a slot and the safety has a slot that the sear spring slides into locking the sear into the gun.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4006_zps65c09241.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4006_zps65c09241.jpg.html)

As you can see I use a dental pick to lift this spring, and once it is lifted you move it to the left or what would be down in this picture and rest it up out of the slot.
Next step is from the right side of the gun use a drift punch to slowly PRESS (NOT hammer) out the safety toward the right side.
If you get rough you will be looking for replacment parts for this small ball bearing and the spring behind it.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4009_zpseacf6336.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4009_zpseacf6336.jpg.html)

OKay now the safety is out the next step is to remove the sear cage, this can be done by moving the sear cage forward toward the trigger, as it is slotted in there. it will lift out set it aside and make sure that it is somewhere that nothing can get lost or knocked around.

PERSONAL TIP HERE; I like the small magnetic mechanics parts cups. They keep all your parts together and even if you knock them over they will keep most items in there.

With the sear out of the way, there is another item Canik does different than the CZ75's for the hammer pivot pin they use an internal locking pin instead of the external one on the 75's, this is just like the RAMI's only harder.
I found the pin so short it is flush inside the gun with no way to press it out or get a grip on the pin.
So cringing, I turned the gun upside down, held the hammer back (remember no sear to hold it in place) and tapped my wood work bench thru a towel with the frame of the gun. I was successful the pin came out onto the towel.

Be careful it is tiny!
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4015_zps03789561.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4015_zps03789561.jpg.html)

Here is the hole that was left by the pin.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4014_zpsb79892b8.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4014_zpsb79892b8.jpg.html)

Now you want to drift the hammer pivot pin out from to right side of the gun toward the left side.
Mine took a fair amount of tapping as it was in there pretty tight. Use a small hammer for these tasks, I use an 8 oz. ball peen to tap with.
This is not framing, closer to watchmaking, so not too hard.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4033_zps2316e53d.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4033_zps2316e53d.jpg.html)

Once the pivot pin is fully removed, the hammer assembly will lift out.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4034_zps6e2575ec.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4034_zps6e2575ec.jpg.html)

Once the hammer assembly is out, I lay the new hammer in the same direction, as the hammer assembly side by side.
I remove the disconnect from the old one and install on the new one with the new hammer pin from CGW. Then I remove the hammer spring arm off the old one and reinstall on the new one SAME DIRECTION a lot of people tend to flip this over and if you do it will not fit back into the gun until you fix it.
Install the new hammer pin on the arm and you are ready to reinstall the hammer and disconnect.

Once it is reinstalled you can reinsert the hammer retaining pin, I had to drift it back in, then reinstall the hammer pin retainer.
I actually found it fairly easy to put back into the hole as it slide right back in.
I used one of my dental picks that has been magnetized to place the pin back in place, and then pressing it back down.


ONE RACEHAMMER INSTALLED. You may have noticed this one is a Stainless, with the HC slide and the 85C trigger I thought this would fit better with the overall look of the gun. So I asked David aka Schmeky and he made me a custom hammer kit with a stainless hammer.
At this point it should be noted that Canik has changed a couple of other dimensions on their guns,  in this case I am referring to the hammer pivot pin and the trigger pin, David has informed me that the increased the size of those 2 pins.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4038_zpsb7f2e3c5.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4038_zpsb7f2e3c5.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 06, 2014, 09:36:00 PM
Terry, make yourself one of these tools. It will make servicing that hammer spring and mag brake a LOT easier.

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=51650.msg316253#msg316253

Joe
Your right Joe and I need to get the Joe Tool as well, as much as I keep doing these projects.

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: p4R4d0x on May 06, 2014, 11:27:57 PM
p4R4d0x,

About the grips ai did not answer you before as I wanted to pull the grips I had to show differences.
Here is a picture of the  2 side by side.

You can see in this shot that the Tristar is more of a full body grip and it tapers nicely towards the front and back into the frame.
Additionally it does not have the ridge around the edges.
Stingray grip on left C-100 grip on the right.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_3966_zps796b9964.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_3966_zps796b9964.jpg.html)

If I'm not mistaken, the grip on the left is actually a full-size grip from CZ?  That looks like the CZ logo at least.  My stock Stingray-C grip was exactly the same as the one on the right, except with a Canik dolphin logo instead of the Tristar T.

Okay,
Tonight is going to be cut a little short as work has interfered.

But I do have a couple things.

One many of you have noticed that the CZ grips do not fit quite right, others have manage to convince them to fit, myself included on the Stingray.

I notice on the C-100 that the grips fit terribly last night so I started looking closely at where they interfered.
I could get the screws to line up but the grips at the rear of the frame gaped, so I checked the dovetail at the front to see if I had good lockup at the front.
Affirmative, we have good lockup!
Looking at the butt of the gun I could see the problem and maybe this is why others have had fitment issues.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_3961_zpsd18dd832.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_3961_zpsd18dd832.jpg.html)
In that photo you can see that the CZ grip has a long radius cut to the grip and the C-100 has an almost squared off frame causing interference.
If you slide the grips back to where the holes for the grip screw does not line up you can get the grip to fit flush at the back.
Seeing at I have these nice grips I did not want to modify the hole location so I came up with a different solution.

RECUT THE INSIDE OF THE GRIP TO MATCH THE FRAME ANGLE.
It took a lot of slow cutting, after all I did not want to destroy my new grips, But I gradually got the contour correct on both grips.

Nice work getting those grips to fit!  After seeing this, it sounds like all of the grips need different work to fit properly.  ;D  On the ebay wood Thailand ones I put on my Stingray, almost no work was needed, but on the VZ set for my P-120, I had to remove a decent amount, but from a different place - the top and bottom horizontal spots that would lock into the hollow in the frame. Strange!

As with your other work first safety check the gun, then remove the slide.
Next remove the grips, and remove the Hammer spring as in part 1.

Next you need to remove the safety.
The Canik/Tristars have a detent safety, meaning they have a spring and ball on the back side of the safety that may fly off if you are not careful.
They differ from CZ on this as CZ has a catch inside the gun that can be pulled back with a dental pick.
First step to remove the safety is down in the sear cage the Sear spring rests in a slot and the safety has a slot that the sear spring slides into locking the sear into the gun.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4006_zps65c09241.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4006_zps65c09241.jpg.html)

As you can see I use a dental pick to lift this spring, and once it is lifted you move it to the left or what would be down in this picture and rest it up out of the slot.
Next step is from the right side of the gun use a drift punch to slowly PRESS (NOT hammer) out the safety toward the right side.[/URL]

Just a quick note for Stingray users looking to do this, since I couldn't find anything about it on the web when I did mine - The ambidextrous safety comes out differently!  Don't just pull up on that spring and try yanking and prying the safety out, unless you like to ruin things (ask me how I know  ;D ).  If you look closely on the stingray, all the way to the right of the inside of the frame (or the 'top' of the photo above), when the safety is up, you will see a tiny roll pin going through the shaft of the safety controls.  This needs to be tapped out before you can remove the safety lever!  Once this is out, lift the spring out of the way like in terry mc's photos, and then the safety will come out in 2 pieces; one from each side.  I'll try to get a picture in the next couple of days to clarify, since people trying to install these or research them will probably find your thread.

With the sear out of the way, there is another item Canik does different than the CZ75's for the hammer pivot pin they use an internal locking pin instead of the external one on the 75's, this is just like the RAMI's only harder.
I found the pin so short it is flush inside the gun with no way to press it out or get a grip on the pin.
So cringing, I turned the gun upside down, held the hammer back (remember no sear to hold it in place) and tapped my wood work bench thru a towel with the frame of the gun. I was successful the pin came out onto the towel.

Be careful it is tiny!
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/DSC_4015_zps03789561.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/DSC_4015_zps03789561.jpg.html)

After pounding my head against the wall (and my frame against my desk) and trying and trying to figure out what to do to get this thing out; what finally worked for me was sticking a small magnetized screwdriver in and touching it against the top of the pin. Lifted it right out!

Alright, hijacking over, sorry!

The C-100 is looking great, keep it up!  I really like that stainless hammer - wish I had thought of that!  Great photo's as well, very informative.  This thread is making me want a C-100...  :-X

Does the race hammer work with the stock sear?  I thought it had different catch-points.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 06, 2014, 11:41:33 PM
You may be right on the grips. I saw the grips in the drawer and thought they were the Canik.
I don't even remember having a set of the plastic grips for CZ. But they look the right size to a full size set.

And yes he is right about the safety, that is what I am going to photograph to show you all about.
There is a small 1/16" pin that locks the ambidextrous safetys together.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 07, 2014, 05:04:02 PM
So as promised here is a picture of the item that is different on the safety for an ambidextrous Canik and the Left side safety only Canik's.
In the picture below, you can see a small hole in the frame along the edge of the sear cage and the frame just inside of the right side safety.
This is the pin that locks the two halves of the safety together. On the CZ the ambidextrous safety is tied together with the sear spring, but as they have done in a lot of other cases Canik has taken to changing things.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4041_zps13a4b7fc.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4041_zps13a4b7fc.jpg.html)
Thank you to DexterGSP for letting me photograph this detail.

Now I have not done this but, when I owned the Stingray Schmeky informed me that you knock this pin out, (safety will need to be up, so the pin is aligned)
and there is a spot in the frame that will hold it until you have removed the sear cage and retrieve it. Now that the two halves are divided, you should be able to just pull the right side off and the left side should follow the directions as I described in part 2.
The hard part will be to put the pin back as it is a small space and a small pin.
P4R4d0x can probably elaborate on this process and the difficulties as he has done it.
Schmeky if I have misquoted please feel free to correct me, it has been a couple months since we talked about this.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 07, 2014, 09:38:59 PM
PART 3 SEAR

Tonight we are going to install the new sear and set the safety.

We have a lot to talk about and I am sure there will be some discussion with what I have found.

A couple of us have noticed that Caniks have some variation in builds, whether it is the feel of the trigger, the width of the frame, or in tonights case the dimensions of the sear cage.
I started the simple but, meticulous task of installing the new sear, Firing ping lifter assembly, and associated springs only to find that I had an interference fit.
Meaning parts were rubbing against each other and HARD, enough that the sear or the lifter would not move.

So I Emailed Schmeky and sent pictures of the issues.
He confirmed that Canik makes rolling changes, and that as he put it "Hard to hit a moving target" and that he will be making adjustments to the next batch.
His advice to make it work is just as I thought trim the side of the sear or sear body where they are making contact, and that this will not cause any issues.
It reminds me of a certain Italian motorcycle manufacturer, that has always made rolling changes in the middle of the year, and if they find some old parts they throw those in also.

So I am going to say it now, tonights mods are not for the faint of heart.
It can be scary resizing small parts, but not as hard as you think.

In the following picture you can see the safety arm hitting the inside edge of the sear cage pulling the sear to the left.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4035_zps9a8e9c90.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4035_zps9a8e9c90.jpg.html)

In this view of the bottom you can see the sear pulled to the left and binding against the left wall.(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4036_zpsacaae036.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4036_zpsacaae036.jpg.html)

I am getting ahead of myself, in part 2 we talked about removing the sear and kind of stopped there.
Disassembling the sear cage is pretty simple but you need to use caution if you are reusing the parts.
You need to place a finger on the top and bottom of the sear cage and push the pin out sideways.
The fingers will keep the loose parts from flying out.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4011_zpsd90ac89f.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4011_zpsd90ac89f.jpg.html)

Here are the loose parts.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4013_zps338891a0.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4013_zps338891a0.jpg.html)


Someone asked me at one point can the stock sear be used with the new hammer.
The answer is on a CZ yes, on a Canik/Tristar NO ABSOLUTELY NOT.
David, aka Schmeky made an important improvement on his hammer sear kit.

He separated out the Firing pin Block lifter from the sear function, it is floating even though they are both moved by the same trigger bar.
Whys is this important??
The race hammer has a smaller shelf on the hammer for the sear.
It takes a smaller movement of the trigger than the stock hammer.
With the new sear kit the firing pin block moves sooner than the sear so that once the sear is disengages the firing pin block is already out of the way.
In this picture you can see the FPB lifter moving up and the hammer in the background is still stationary.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4066_zps0e903707.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4066_zps0e903707.jpg.html)

The Stock sear and FPB lifter are dovetailed to each other so they move at the same time and the FPB does not get the headstart it needs with the new hammer.
With the stock sear the hammer would drop before the block would move up and the gun no go BANG!
Bad thing if you are defending yourself.
So major props to CGW for doing all the development work to these guns work with a race hammer.

Now to the fitting.
I wound up removing material in 2 places on the left side wall inside what I call the sear window, and to the right side of the safety arm on the new sear.
First I scribed a line of .5mm on the sear cage and used a dremel with a flat grinding bit against the surface I wanted to modify.
The scribe line allowed me to make sure the cut remained square and give me a reference for how much material I removed even though I did not go all the way to the scribe line.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4045_zpsf03a7fb4.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4045_zpsf03a7fb4.jpg.html)

I ground a little and then tried a fit and gournd some more and tried again until I felt I had it. It takes longer but it is better than cutting too much, superglue will not put it back.

Once I had that I still felt that the safety arm was rubbing too much as in it touched period.
So I removed some material off the inside of the arm.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4046_zps74d3c158.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4046_zps74d3c158.jpg.html)

So now I have all the parts the way I want with one exception. I like to polish the sear pin.
I know I said I would do all the polishing later, but I would rather not tar down the sear cage again when I do the other parts so I am going to cheat tonight on this part.
I chuck it up in a drill sand the pin with 800, 1000, and 2000 grit sandpaper to get a mirror finish. Then I turn it around and do the other side.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4018_zps55ba26c9.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4018_zps55ba26c9.jpg.html)


Reassembling the sear,
I tend to start from the FPB lifter side, I put the pin in a small amount and slip the FPB lifter spring on it. that is the first thing on that side, make sure the V shape is facing up.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4021_zpsfc4f061f.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4021_zpsfc4f061f.jpg.html)
Next I install the FPB lifter and set the spring in the grove on it.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4022_zps91137613.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4022_zps91137613.jpg.html)

Then I install the sear pushing the pin in just far enough to hold it in place but not interfere with the sear spring.
I put the sear spring in the middle of the sear, again make sure the V is facing up and that  the top leg is resting on the back of the sear.
I will use a Drift punch to press the spring back while I push the pin through the hole. Like this.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4027_zpsb9ea0487.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4027_zpsb9ea0487.jpg.html)

Now you finish pushing the pin the rest of the way through the sear cage and you have completed all the hard work.
Some guys do it the other way and I have tried it both ways, I like this way as I loose fewer of the FPB lifter springs, OH YEAH order extras of those, they fly away regularly.

Once the sear is assembled make sure you have no binding and the safety arm should be lifted UP by the spring.
The FPB lifter should be pulled down by the spring. Check them I hook a finger nail under the FPB lifter and pull it up and see if it snaps back it should move freely. Same thing with the sear, press down on the safety arm and see if it pushed back easily on its own. If not on either one you may need to trim some more.

reinstall the sear into the body of the gun, They slot in real nice on tight on the Caniks this is something that I think that they are tighter than a CZ on.
lift your sear spring up like when you removed your safety rest it up high. reinstall your safety.
Tip here, before you loose your ballbearing put a little dab of grease behind the ballbearing it will help hold it in while you are installing the safety.
Slide the sear spring back onto the safety locking it in place.
REinstall the hammer spring and retainer.

Here is something that I like about all CGW sears over CZC I really like the adjustable sear, it saves a lot of time.
to set the safety, cock the hammer fully, engage safety (if safety will not engage then loosen the allen screw until it will)
once safety is on with the hammer back tighten the adjustment screw until it is against the safety.
Try disengaging safety, if it disengages, then pull the trigger if the hammer drops good.
Pull the hammer back, try reengaging the safety if it engages pull the trigger you should not be able to drop the hammer.
Do this back and forth a few times and feel the engagement of the safety will it click on and off with your thumb?
Does it lock the hammer back, does the hammer fall everytime when the safety is off and the trigger is pulled.
If so you have found the engagement point. Back it out and apply the locktite that Schmeky recommends and go back to your set point, you should have a good feel for what it feels like after fine tuning it in advance.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4064_zps714f8427.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4064_zps714f8427.jpg.html)

Well this segment was a lot of work with the trimming needed.
Once I finished reinstalling the slide there was one more function check to do.
Just as CGW tells you, you will need to check to make sure the firing pin block lifter is working correctly.
This is easy, put he gun in your right hand, cock the hammer, now pull the trigger while holding the hammer.
While the trigger is pulled, take a drift punch and push forward on the firing pin. It should push forward until slightly recessed in its hole.
If it does, then release the trigger and try again, now it should not move forward into the hole.
This is all in the instructions and it is very important! Again if it does not work the gun no go BANG!

Well was it all worth it.
Absolutely, I like a smooth trigger and this one keeps improving with each stage.
Now for some measurements.

DOUBLE ACTION 8LBS. 2 0Z. that is an improvement of 4 oz. on the DA. over just the springs.  Not that much but this modification is more about the SA pull both in weight and in feel.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4061_zps7b3362e5.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4061_zps7b3362e5.jpg.html)


SINGLE ACTION 3 lbs. 9.7 oz. That is 14.1 oz. lighter than the springs alone! big jump and now we are a combined 1 lb. 6.3 oz lighter than stock!
Here is the kicker, this is as much about the short trigger pull from the SA from engagement of the sear to the drop of the hammer. That movement is less than half the distance it was previously. I am sorry I did not measure before but believe me that this trigger is nice and short and crisp!
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4062_zpscd7adba1.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4062_zpscd7adba1.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 07, 2014, 09:47:18 PM
Just for Reference FarmerBob, a new forum member has recorded the trigger weight of an S120 for DOUBLE ACTION at 18 lbs.,
His single action was 5 lbs which is where this gun started at.

If we started with an 18lb trigger pull in double action  that means to date we have removed almost 10 lbs. of trigger pull!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: DexterGSP on May 07, 2014, 10:29:47 PM
As usual, great pictures and tutorial!

I look forward to firing your pistol the next time we go out.  Maybe there's a hammer/sear kit in the near future for me.

Paul

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: jwc007 on May 08, 2014, 02:06:33 PM
Making this a sticky   :)
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: p4R4d0x on May 09, 2014, 04:00:25 PM
So as promised here is a picture of the item that is different on the safety for an ambidextrous Canik and the Left side safety only Canik's.
In the picture below, you can see a small hole in the frame along the edge of the sear cage and the frame just inside of the right side safety.
This is the pin that locks the two halves of the safety together. On the CZ the ambidextrous safety is tied together with the sear spring, but as they have done in a lot of other cases Canik has taken to changing things.

(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4041_zps13a4b7fc.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4041_zps13a4b7fc.jpg.html)
Thank you to DexterGSP for letting me photograph this detail.

Now I have not done this but, when I owned the Stingray Schmeky informed me that you knock this pin out, (safety will need to be up, so the pin is aligned)
and there is a spot in the frame that will hold it until you have removed the sear cage and retrieve it. Now that the two halves are divided, you should be able to just pull the right side off and the left side should follow the directions as I described in part 2.
The hard part will be to put the pin back as it is a small space and a small pin.
P4R4d0x can probably elaborate on this process and the difficulties as he has done it.
Schmeky if I have misquoted please feel free to correct me, it has been a couple months since we talked about this.

Sounds right to me!  Safety up - > lightly punch out the pin -> right side should be loose and able to be gently pulled out -> proceed with lifting spring up to remove left hand side.  To get the pin back in, the easiest way I found was to use a pair of thin needle-nose pliers with a 45* angle tip to get it aligned and gently pressed into place, and then use the roll pin punch to get it the rest of the way through.  It goes in very easy so don't pound too hard - if it gives you resistance, make sure the left and right safety pieces are lined up.

When you tap the pin out, mine always got stuck on the top of the trigger bar.  Once I swore I heard it hit the floor and spent 20 minutes frantically searching for it just to discover it was still in the frame of the gun.  ;D

As usual, great posts! Glad to see it made it to 'stickyness'.



Regarding the sear fitment; I had the same issue in both the Stingray-C and P-120 - with the parts in the pin either wouldn't fit all the way through because of contact between the sear and sear cage pushing it off-centered, or it would fit through but the sear couldn't rotate.  I ended up filing down just a small amount of material from the left-most side of the sear itself, since that seemed to be where most of the contact was, and that solved the problem.  I was pretty worried/stressed about doing this, but it really was no big deal - as long as you go slow, taking small amounts of material off at a time (I commend you for using a Dremel, I think I would have wet myself! I used a small hand file), and test fit often to see how close you're getting, it's no problem at all.

That lifter spring sure was a pain though!  ;D  I thought I lost mine quite a few times, as they went flying across the room.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 09, 2014, 09:48:47 PM


That lifter spring sure was a pain though!  ;D  I thought I lost mine quite a few times, as they went flying across the room.
Yeah that is why I keep several in stock now.
I use to average loosing one somewhere in my garage every time I do a build.
Since I changed to putting the spring side on first it has come down to almost none existent on loses but I still like to have spares.

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Bishop112 on May 10, 2014, 10:47:13 PM
Great write up and Pics Terry!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: TDoug on May 11, 2014, 06:09:19 PM
CZC site says the Tactical Tritium rear sight requires the 6.5mm front sight. Did you choose the 6.0 front sight because the gun was shooting low out of the box?
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 11, 2014, 11:13:21 PM
TDoug,
No actually Rob checked on one of their CZC Tristar S120 and picked the sights for me.
So yes I have the 6.0, but it was based on what they have done on the 120.
Now it may not work as the sight radius  is shorter, but we shall see once I have the sights installed.
Could wind up being an expensive experiment.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: DexterGSP on May 11, 2014, 11:36:49 PM
A shorter sight radius will decrease the sight elevation needed to correct the POI.  The 120 series has about a .8" longer or ruffly 14% longer sight radius than a C-100.  I think adopting the 120 series sight choice is a good place to start as it will get you closer to the mark.  However, if using the same set of sights between the S-120 and the C-100 and the object is to have the POI go up, the C-100 POI will be higher.


Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 12, 2014, 12:30:34 PM
Yeah,
That is exactly what I thought Paul.
But as you said it will give a good point to start, so we shall see once I have them installed.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 12, 2014, 04:13:31 PM
PART 4 POLISHING THE ACTION AND INSTALLING THE 85C TRIGGER


In part 3 I finished the install of the new sear.
Last friday I got to go out and shoot for a while and I will say the work on the gun has drastically improved the feel of the trigger.
I no longer feel like you have to focus as hard to keep from pulling your shots.
The feel is approaching the feel of my other guns.

Each stage in this modification has been a diminishing return process, meaning that we get less with each step compared to the last.
That is also true of this step, however I feel that the polishing gives a refined feel to the trigger. In the Canik, the trigger and sear parts appear rougher compared to a CZ. The CGW parts remove the roughness from the hammer and sear, but you still have a lot of surfaces that rub even more during the pullng of the trigger. Polishihng these tend to remove that grittiness comment we all see.

At this point I want to point out that all the work being done on this segment is a what I have learned on this excellent thread started by none other than Schmeky and with input from other talented gusnsmiths.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=42537.0


As before you need to disassemble the gun starting with the safety check, them remove everything done to the frame.
Now you should have  frame with the trigger, trigger bar, and magazine catch, along with the associated springs.

Simply tap out the trigger pin, side to side does not make a difference which direction.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4092_zps58250f00.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4092_zps58250f00.jpg.html)

Once you have removed the pin you can push the trigger up out of the frame and pull the trigger and trigger bar froward toward the front of the frame to lift it out.


I will be doing less pictures on this one as Schmeky has done an excellent job with the thread mentioned above.

I tend to start with the large surfaces and work my way down to the small areas detailed by Schmeky.

For the large areas I tend to use a block to wrap sand paper around and work the surface of the trigger bar against it.
ON the Canik I started with 1000 grit and finished sanding with 2000 grit and then finally polishing the assembly with a dremel and white rouge.
I polish the large flats on each side of the trigger bar as this is one of the largest contact areas.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4074_zpsd77408c0.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4074_zpsd77408c0.jpg.html)
sorry this shot came out slightly blurry.

I do the top of the trigger bar just as Schmeky has described.
The area that is clearly visible in this shot are all areas that rub against the frame or the slide. Just as I did with the flats I polish this to a mirror smooth shine.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4070_zps9aea2c0b.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4070_zps9aea2c0b.jpg.html)

Another area that I address is the surface that the trigger bar lifting spring rubs, it is 2 slots on the bottom side, and this was brought up in this thread here
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=14685.0


(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4071_zps0da720a1.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4071_zps0da720a1.jpg.html)

And just for giggles I polished the ends of the spring, again this is a diminishing return thing but while I have it all apart it is easier than wondering later if I should have done it.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4075_zpsf0a3de4b.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4075_zpsf0a3de4b.jpg.html)

Polishing the disconnect engagement surfaces helps the feel of the break, so that is done as well, with everything being done as described in the thread by Schmeky.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4078_zps3c0cbdb6.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4078_zps3c0cbdb6.jpg.html)

So once everthing is polished I reassemble and in this case I add the 85C trigger inplace of the stock trigger.
My reason for using the 85C trigger is strictly for the overtravel screw. I have it on my SA and on the RAMI so I like to keep some uniformity amongst my various guns. The newer style 85C trigger also has more scallop than the old one, which I will go into taste latter, but it allows for a slightly less reach to the trigger if you have small hands.
With floating trigger pin, CGW provides you with a slave pin this allows you to install the trigger return spring with the trigger bar and trigger as one assembly instead of installing the spring inside the frame. Also install the set screw inside the trigger before installing the assembly it is lot easier than doing it around the trigger guard.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4067_zps3422f50c.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4067_zps3422f50c.jpg.html)

Now we can reassemble the gun, install the trigger/trigger bar assembly in the opposite fashion you did in removal and install the trigger pin.
I have opted for a CGW floating trigger pin on this gun, and I like it. unlike the CZ trigger pin, this one is turned down in the middle allowing the trigger spring to capture the pin instead of needing to be a stacked pin like the stock one.

Now that I have reassembled the gun it is time to check my results.
I am going to start with the objective results.

DA trigger pull for the polished trigger assembly.  10 pull average 7lbs. 2 oz. Wow! that is down a full pound from Part three, and 11lbs. from stock! (going by Farmerbobs results)
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4081_zps677e4f3a.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4081_zps677e4f3a.jpg.html)

SA trigger pull for the polished trigger assembly. 10 pull average 3lbs. 6.3 oz. this is a 3.4 oz. drop from Part 3, and 1 lb. 12.6 oz. from stock.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4082_zps4178d279.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4082_zps4178d279.jpg.html)

For the single action shooters here the numbers are not a huge change but I can tell you that subjectively it is a big improvement.
This trigger for this gun is nearly the same as my CZ RAMI, it is the reference that I use for double action triggers as it is the best that I have every felt for double action. Single Action my SA is from another planet but that is another story altogether.
One thing that I notice between the C-110 and the RAMI is pretravel and trigger stacking.
This is where my RAMI has always excelled, the pretravel is very light and you cannot feel the stacking unless you are very very slow looking for the stacking point.

Let me take a moment, to explain the stacking feel for Single Action on any CZ with a firing pin block. 
When you take up the pretravel to the point of sear engagement, there is a point where you start lifting the firing pin block just before the sear breaks and the hammer falls that creates a slight change in the weight of the trigger pull therefore you feel a slight difference as you move through the travel.
With a stock Canik the only point that the firing pin block is lifted is when the sear has begun to be moved, so it is not felt on pretravel but as part of the longer sear break.

Also I wanted to quantify the weights of each gun for pretravel (sinle action) including the stacking of the firing pin block.
The RAMI measured 1lb. 8.2 oz.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4087_zps5832fa8b.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4087_zps5832fa8b.jpg.html)
The C-100 measured 2lbs. 1.4 oz.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4086_zpsd10e3c59.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4086_zpsd10e3c59.jpg.html)

The lighter pretravel on the RAMI is most likely a lighter trigger return spring combined with a polished firing pin block on that gun.


At a later date, I may try doing the polish of the Firing pin Block which I did not do on this gun to see if it lessens the perceived stacking.
Keep in mind that this is looking for differences and that most will only feel the lighter pretravel attained from polishing of the action.

Double action stacking is created by another event that happens, which is the half cocked position of the hammer, with a heavy hammer spring you do not notice this as you are so busy fighting the spring. With a light spring and a polished action, you have removed many of the things that you struggled with before so as you move through the double action stroke you can feel a slight click in the trigger as the hammer reaches the shelf for half cocked.
With My RAMI in particular it has a Shadow hammer, which has a smaller shelf for the half cocked than the race hammers, the result is that the click is almost imperceptible as you move through the stroke giving it the smoothest double action I have used.
The race hammers having a slightly larger shelf, allowing a slight click as the trigger moves through the travel.
The effort does not build and this is a tiny difference between the guns that can only be noticed in back to back observation.

Now I will say the only negative thing in my build so far, that I have experienced is the newer style 85C triggers, I have seen several people comment on the differences between the new style and the old style trigger. The old style has a thicker trigger and less curve at the bottom of the trigger, the newer style is very reminiscent of the recurve trigger that most new CZ's ship with. For my wife it is not bothersome as she has small fingers and they fit in the small curve of the trigger, for me I have XXXl hands and the small curve tends to bite into my finger at the end the end of the trigger.
The flip side is people with smaller hands now have less reach due to the cut in the trigger.

Here is a shot using my left hand to show the trigger.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4083_zps4267a596.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4083_zps4267a596.jpg.html)

Here is a shot of the older style 85C trigger for comparison.Notice that it has less hook to it.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4094_zpsb722123c.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4094_zpsb722123c.jpg.html)

I will get to  the range in the next couple days and give you my thoughts.
Part 5 coming soon sight fitment using the Trijicon combat style sights from CZC.

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Bishop112 on May 12, 2014, 10:19:36 PM
looking great as usual terry!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: DexterGSP on May 13, 2014, 12:33:43 AM
More great pics and tutorial!

Terry, I ordered a couple of different nylon punches from Brownell's today.  They will arrive by Friday.  As for a punches, I will now have brass and nylon to deal with these sights.  I also have the ability to heat parts due to my oven being in my garage for refinishing plus a decent vice with wood pads.  I also have files and stones too (if fitting is needed for the sights).  Anyway, like I said before, you are more than welcome to come over and do it at my house if you can find the time.

Paul
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Bishop112 on May 13, 2014, 02:30:22 AM
When I take out the sights I used a turned down brass rod for a drift... then I took a small piece of my leather cuff off one of my old pairs of my Tig welding gloves and put that on the sight and smacked it out. It left absolutally no marks on the slide or sight and its not near as slippery as a nylon, uhmw, or sometype of plastic punch. I also use the rest of the cuff to hold my slide in the vice and it held firm and no markings on the slide. If someone wants I can take pics of that.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Genin on May 14, 2014, 08:12:53 AM
Excellent pictures and updates Terry. I look forward to seeing the sight fitment and installation. I feel like is something I'd want to do down the road with my Stingray-C. I know it's not as easy with the stingray because the rear dovetail is a peculiar size, but I'm sure it could be done with the right rear sight. I prefer tritium sights.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 15, 2014, 10:51:37 PM
PART 5 SIGHTS

Well guys and gals it is time to get rid of one of my least favorite part of the C-100, the factory sights.
As previously discussed the factory sights shoot low and mine shot to the right (drift adjustment no big deal).

Before we get into that I want to comment on my last installment, the trigger work.
I went to the range yesterday and shot a hundred rounds, this gun is great!
I am very happy with the progress, I thought I would not like the NEW STYLE CZ85C trigger compared to the old one on my RAMI.
I was wrong, in a hundred rounds I never thought about the curve of the new style versus the old style, never once crossed my mind.
I only thought of it after I left and went "wait a minute this it that recurve style trigger", it obviously is less of a curve than the stock trigger from my RAMI I hated that one the moment I shot it.
No Malfunctions, just great shooting albeit low and to the right as has been the history of this gun.


Personally I am not a fan of low profile sights, I find the front sight hard to pickup in  a  hurry and the small notch makes it so you really have to focus to get good centering. But I think that this is a taste thing as others like them.

So I went for the best sights for my tastes, I do like a tritium sight for my carry gun, for a range gun not really a benefit, CZ Custom stocks these sights,
REAR
http://czcustom.com/czshadowtacticalreartritium.aspx

FRONT
http://czcustom.com/cztritiumfrontsight60mm.aspx

Really not cheap but exactly what I am looking for.

First thing is getting the old sights off of the gun, I started with the front sight as I knew it had a complication.
The front Bushing for the C-100 overlaps the front sight, so it needs a slight trim to the bushing to get the sight out.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4098_zps31e1e9eb.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4098_zps31e1e9eb.jpg.html)

I used a file to trim the bushing down slowly to make clearance for the front sight to be removed.
I will note here that is you have the Hard Chrome version prior to 2014 that even the front bushing is chromed.
I thought it would be Cerakote for the bushing but as soon as I started filing on it, it became obvious that it was chromed.

Next step was to remove the sight retaining pin. This was a simple task with a 3mm drift punch.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4099_zps54bcf4af.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4099_zps54bcf4af.jpg.html)

Then to tap out the front sight.
I had read where others had a difficult time with the front sight and had marked up their slides.
I did not want to save the old slide so I thought maybe if I use a small (3mm) punch, I could hook it in the white dot for the sight.
I worked, it hooked in there perfectly allowing me to drive out the sight without getting close to the slide.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4100_zps7f03a7a3.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4100_zps7f03a7a3.jpg.html)

So now to fit the new tritium sight.
I had heard on other Caniks that there is a fitment to the CZ sights for the front sight requiring a slight trim.
This had held true for me on the front sight, to the extent of just polishing the sides of the new sight, removing the parkerizing off of it allowed it to be tapped into place.
Once it is in place the Tritium front sight requires another task before pinning it into place.
The bottom on the new sight is flat and therefore needs drilling for the pin to retain it in place.
I bought the sight drill bit from CZ Custom when I bought the sight.
Do not be afraid to ask these guys if there is anything that you need that you have not asked for, because sometimes it brings up things like this drill bit.
I slid the drill bit in by hand at first checking for how tight into the slide it fit, it was not too tight so I was confident I would not be removing slide material when doing this.
So I chuck up the drill bit insert into the slide stopping at the sight, here is the part where a sense of feel comes into play.
I back the bit off of the sight still in the slide run up the speed on the drill and slowly push into the sight.
This allows me to slowly cut away at the sight material without taking too big a bite and breaking the bit, it also keeps the twisting of the bit down so you are not cutting the slide. LIGHT PRESSURE IS GOOD, high turning speed and it drilled through with almost no effort.
I was almost surprised how easy it went through, it is clearly a very mild steel.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4104_zps123bf7d2.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4104_zps123bf7d2.jpg.html)

The new front sight pinned in place I turn my attention to the dreadful rear sight.
I have been keeping up on DexterGSP's thread on doing the rear sight.
It is right here, http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=64002.0 and for those who are not into spending big dollars on a low cost gun, he is working on a great solution for the low shooting sights. I think it is a must read for C-100 owners.
One of the  things I have been reading is the difficulty in removing the stock rear sight and how tight it is.
Dexter had made a suggestion at one point to me for removing the stock rear sight and that is to CUT IT.
Sound drastic, but it really works well if you have the Cajones to go near your slide with a saw.
Here is how I did it.
First I chucked the slide up into a bench vice using two blocks of wood to form my softjaw.
Then to protect the slide slightly I decided to try some duct tape of all things.
Let me explain, duct tape has some elastic properties to it and the saw that I am using is a Multitool aka. Vibrasaw.
They vibrate the blade back and forth a very short distance at high speeds, you can place it on you skin and because it has more give than the blade travels it normally will not but you.
So here is the slide masked and chucked up.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4105_zpsc7c2e1be.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4105_zpsc7c2e1be.jpg.html)

I then cut down from the top of the sight side to side, slowly working my way down until I have cut maybe 3/4 the way through.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4106_zps019e3a52.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4106_zps019e3a52.jpg.html)

Once I reached that point I took a punch of sufficient size and tapped forward on the backside of the sight, partially collapsing it in the dovetail.
This not only makes the sight slightly smaller but loosens it in the slide.
Now I take the same punch and I am able to GENTLY tap it out, it took less effort to tap it out than some of the rolled pins at this point.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4107_zps0f4d3a53.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4107_zps0f4d3a53.jpg.html)
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4108_zps7e524d78.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4108_zps7e524d78.jpg.html)

It may be scary at first, but this is the easiest I have ever removed from a slide.
So now we look at the dovetail for the slide and the new sight and I can see the dovetail will fit the sight, but the overhang on the sight needs a slight trim to clear the back of the slide.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4110_zpscbd23294.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4110_zpscbd23294.jpg.html)

After a couple minutes with a file I beveled the inside edge of the sight enough to clear the slide I then took a dremel and cleaned (polished) the file marks on the inside and installed the new sight on the gun. The new sight drifted in without too much effort. I used a combination of leather and some duct tape on a punch to create a padded punch to push the new sight in. It was a nice tight fit that had to be drift punched into place so I am confident that this sight will stay put.
Additionally it has a set screw to lock it down.

The new sight picture is awesome, nice clean view of the front blade and no searching in an undersized sight window.
Additionally with the conbat style sight you have an increase over the stock sight radius of .5855 inches!
half an inch may not sound like much until you realize that the difference between a compact and a full size CZ is about .8".
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4146_zps8f430f21.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4146_zps8f430f21.jpg.html)


Final pictures soon, I don't want to spoil the final reveal!
I will also be following up with a couple of parts that some vendors have shipped me to try out.
Great stuff!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: DexterGSP on May 15, 2014, 11:12:03 PM
Terry, the sights looks great.  Super detailed pictures and tutorial.  Awesome sticky!!!

Please let us know what the POI is compared to the POA.  Hopefully the sights are close.

Paul

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Genin on May 16, 2014, 09:24:16 AM
Terry those sights look great! Are the dovetail sizes the same on the c-100 and the stingray-c? I'm wondering if those sights would work on my stingray-c!!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: DexterGSP on May 16, 2014, 02:09:12 PM
Terry those sights look great! Are the dovetail sizes the same on the c-100 and the stingray-c? I'm wondering if those sights would work on my stingray-c!!

No!  The dovetails are not the same width.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Genin on May 16, 2014, 02:49:54 PM
Dang!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 16, 2014, 02:52:52 PM
Genin,
Dexter is correct unfortunately they are very different on the width of the dovetail.
I still do not understand why they use different widths for the dovetails on these guns from Canik.
It is not like we are looking at different generations of guns i.e. CZ75B versus SP01.
These all should be about the same generational age, unless I am missing something.
It is one of the few things I find disappointing with Canik.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 16, 2014, 03:03:03 PM
I stopped by the range on the way back from a jobsight this morning, long day already it started at 3AM for one jobsight.

Anyways, the really really great news is these sights are PERFECT!

here is a group from 5 yards The flyer is obviously operator error.  Really cheap 115 gr. Federal Champion ammo from Walmart.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4148_zpsb09a7740.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4148_zpsb09a7740.jpg.html)

I was about done with my last magazine and shot this 3 shot group at 10 yards.  REally cheap 115 gr. Federal Champion ammo from Walmart.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4147_zps58ea6177.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4147_zps58ea6177.jpg.html)

Work on my skills and this inexpensive compact clone will be a tack driver!!

Oh yeah sneak peak, I will be doing a real photoshoot later but......
Oh yeah notice the nice Baseplate I got yesterday in the mail from none other than our own 75plus, you HC owners need to buy some from him.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4152_zpsbf75d74d.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4152_zpsbf75d74d.jpg.html)



Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Genin on May 17, 2014, 04:21:26 PM
Man that pistol is looking great. Good shooting too!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Bishop112 on May 28, 2014, 06:32:38 PM
Looking great !
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 29, 2014, 09:15:10 PM
PART 6 SMALL TOUCHES

The project is essentially complete now, but I have a couple of things that I have tried to get that ultimate product.

There was one thing that bothered me a little after the last update.
That was the slight stacking feel in single action, it was not only noticeable but I could also measure it with the trigger guage, you could see the numbers rise as the firing pin block assembly engaged.
So last night I decided to look at a couple of small things that I thought could impact it.

As I discussed before, with the CGW hammer kit, the FPB lifter is separated from the sear, and the trigger bar starts to move it prior to moving the sear.
The lifter arm rests against the side of the sear, and while the sear has a factory finish that is essentially polished the lifter arm is not.

I wanted to remove ALL friction from the lifter and FPB block so I polished the surface of the sear and the lifter assembly where they come together.

Here is a picture of where the 2 faces come together.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4163_zps535e482a.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4163_zps535e482a.jpg.html)

The next trick is one that Schmeky has mentioned in his thread in that you polish the Firing Pin Block.
On my other guns I also had polished the bore for the Block but with the hard chrome finish on the slide and the machine work it looks like I would not improve on it, so I left it alone.

Here is a shot of the part that you polish, I polished all of the circumference of the part so that all the friction surfaces have been addressed.
This was done with 2000 grit sand paper and it was only a couple minutes to get this finish.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4162_zpsc2adca58.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4162_zpsc2adca58.jpg.html)

So how did we do???
Fantastic! On take up of the pretravel I CANNOT feel the FPB move at all.
I have tried multiple times and with my eyes closed I cannot feel FPB move.

And here is the measurement of the Pretravel trigger weight 1lb. 1.3 oz. WOW compared to 2 lbs. 1.4 oz. we will call it an even pound!
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4164_zps237328b3.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4164_zps237328b3.jpg.html)

That modification should not impact the SA trigger pull or the DA trigger pull as they move together once the sear is in motion.

The other modification today is the Hammer spring. David aka. Schmeky sent me the 11 lb hammer spring part number HS12000 for the benefit of the readers on here, so that we could see what the impact is to the trigger pull weights.
The install is just as we did in Part 1 so I will save you the reread, and go straight to the results.
Previous readings on SA were 3lbs. 6 oz. I rechecked the readings today prior to the spring change as I have fired 500 rounds and the additional working of the action his caused it to drop to 3.lbs 1 oz. with the 13 lb. spring, SA post spring change 2lbs. 11.7 oz. so a drop of 5.3 oz for the spring change.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4165_zps17c04d11.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4165_zps17c04d11.jpg.html)

Here is where you will see the most influence of the light spring DA.
Previously we were at 7lbs. 2 oz., now with the lighter spring we register 6lbs. even WOW! 1 lb. 2 oz.
Here is the kicker it is 1 lb. heavier than the stock SA pull.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4166_zpsc6ebe29c.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4166_zpsc6ebe29c.jpg.html)


One last picture, I went to the range a couple days ago and this gem shot the best group I have shot in years.
8 in one hole and 2 flyers at 10 yards, standing, 2 hand grip, slow fire. Sight elevation is perfect! although I do still shoot to the right sometimes.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/DSC_4170_zps60cb2ff9.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/DSC_4170_zps60cb2ff9.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Genin on May 30, 2014, 01:33:24 PM
Those are some fantastic results. I hope you find more to do to your gun since I thoroughly enjoy reading this thread and your updates.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on May 30, 2014, 09:26:45 PM
Thanks Genin,
I have enjoyed doing this series, I am a modiholic whether it is cars, trucks, motorcycles, computers, or guns, I cannot seam to leave them alone.
Stock is good enough for someone else, ha, ha. Custom is the way I like to make things.

I may look at a couple of little things, but they will probably be minor. I really need to spend more time shooting, at this point the weakest link is me.
I stopped today to shoot a few rounds and could not even come close to the 10 yard group from Tuesday.

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Genin on May 31, 2014, 07:32:28 AM
Yeah I know what you mean. It's nice to make something your own. I also need to get my butt in gear and focus more on range time. I'm hoping that within the next month or so I'll be less busy and can start my regular weekly or bi-weekly range trips. That would be great. 

Tuesday's group you posted was really good. I'd be psyched with that.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on July 06, 2014, 01:26:12 AM
PART 7 SA TRIGGER

EXTREMELY IMPORTANT!!!

UPDATED
 I DO NOT RECOMMEND THIS MODIFICATION WITHOUT A CGW SEAR AND HAMMER DUE TO POSSIBLE TIMING ISSUES WITH A STOCK SEAR AND FPB! HERE IS THE PROBLEM, THE STOCK SEAR AND FPB LIFTER ARE DOVETAILED TOGETHER AND WITH THE PRETRAVEL TAKEN UP BY THE TRIGGER IT STARTS THE LIFTER INTO ITS UPWARD MOTION WHICH MEANS THE SEAR HAS STARTED TO MOVE AS WELL, IT COULD BE RECTIFIED BY MODIFYING THE HOOKS ON THE BOTTOM OF THE SEAR BUT THAT PART IS NOT DIRECTLY AVAILABLE FROM TRISTAR FROM WHAT DEXTERGSP WAS INFORMED TODAY.


THANK YOU to DexterGSP for stopping by today so that I could trial fit his sear cage into my gun to see what issues would arrise.

Well guys I have not done anything on the gun in a while so I guess I got bored and needed something to do. Ha, ha!
Actually I have been toying with this idea for a while of converting the C-100 to single action only.
And since I had an old aluminum factory SA trigger from my 9mm SA I decided to give it a shot.

So the usual disassembly applies make gun safe check chamber, remove slide, etc.. because the trigger bar runs under the sear you will need to remove the sear cage and eventually the hammer.
I've gone over the disassembly several times so I will not bore you with it.

Here is a picture of the stock Canik trigger along side the CZ aluminum SA trigger. What you can see here is on the front of the trigger there is a notch on the double action trigger, this allows the trigger to move all the way forward to reset the double action trigger, if you install the SA trigger it will not move forward enough to reset double action.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/0705141546a_resized_zpsb4c14e75.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/0705141546a_resized_zpsb4c14e75.jpg.html)


The change over requires 2 things, a Single Action trigger and removing the disconnect.

Once you have removed the hammer assembly, you simply remove the disconnect from the hammer by pushing out the pin that holds it on the hammer. Reinstall the hammer and half the job is done.

The other half is installing the trigger, I push out the trigger pin from the frame and lift the front half of the trigger bar and trigger assembly up and out of the frame once the trigger has cleared the slot you will move the assembly forward to remove the trigger bar out from underneath the catches in the frame under where the sear cage sits.

Now that it is removed I push out one pin to disconnect the trigger from the trigger bar.

The new trigger has a task that needs done prior to install.
The Canik has a different trigger pivot pin diameter than the stock CZ so the SA trigger will need this hole enlarged to work on the gun.
Use the aluminum or steel SA trigger only do not use the plastic one as I think the removal of the material for the pivot pin will leave to little strength on the plastic one.
I took a caliper and measured the CGW trigger pin and found that it registered 3/32" so I chose tha 3/32" bit from my index and SLOWLY! reamed the existing holes.  MEASURE YOUR OWN DO NOT USE MY DIMENSIONS you can always drill larger you cannot undo drilling too big.
Once I finished drilling it, I found that the CGW trigger pin still was too tight, so again taking my time I slowly reamed the holes again with the bit.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/0705141546a_resizedA_zpsf3b909a2.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/0705141546a_resizedA_zpsf3b909a2.jpg.html)

Once the holes would fit the new trigger I went to reinstall it onto the trigger bar and found a second item that needed done.
The cavity where the trigger return spring tucks into the trigger is slightly shallower than the Canik trigger, so when I reinstalled the spring, and the trigger bar, the trigger bar rubbed hard against the trigger return spring causing it to bind up.
So I removed the trigger from the trigger bar and shaved some material from the front edge of the trigger bar following the radius of part allowing enough room trigger return spring inside the pocket. I refitted, checked for binding and all was good.

Now I can reassemble, the hardest part is getting the trigger pivot pin lined up with the slave pin in the trigger and pressing them out.


Before reinstalling the slide I did check a couple of things. I wanted to make sure that the gun would not go automatic without the disconnect assembly as I had been misinformed. I was sure that it would not but you need to be safe about these things.
I cocked the hammer, and rest my thumb on the hammer, then I pull and hold the trigger, you can now rock the hammer forward and back giving credibility to the thought that the gun would now be automatic emptying the clip in short order.
What you have not done yet is check trigger bar, here is the trick. If you push down on the trigger bar while the hammer is floating due to the trigger being held you will hear a small click and you will see the firing pin block lifter pop back up. Now you can release the hammer and it stays cocked.
WHY???
Becasue CZ and the clones have designed a notch in the slide that is timed to allow the hammer to drop when the slide is forward the two bumps on the top of the trigger bar are cam followers, the slide is the cam. as the slide moves back it presses down on the trigger bar, when this happens the sear is reset and the firing pin block lifter is reset. Now the gun is ready to cycle again! end of mystery.

Here is the cam follower on the trigger bar.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/0705142110_resized_zps8fd7d7ef.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/0705142110_resized_zps8fd7d7ef.jpg.html)

Here is the picture of the notches on the slide, the Center notch is the one for the trigger bar cam follower the front notch is for the slide lock and the back one is for the safety very different jobs from this one.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/0705142110b_resized_zps501d29aa.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/0705142110b_resized_zps501d29aa.jpg.html)

Okay I now have reattached the slide as I know the gun is safe.
Here is the gun with the SA trigger, it is not glamorous, but it feels good.
Now ehen you cock the gun the trigger does not move because the trigger was already resting at the SA position.
Additionally all pretravel before the FPB lifter coming into action is removed. So the pretravel is shorter and a bigger item is that
all slack on the FPB lifter is gone so THERE IS NO THREE STAGE TRIGGER STACKING! You only have the FPB lifter play and then sear engagement, done.

Here is the finished product,
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/0705141701_resized_zpsd6e49c73.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/0705141701_resized_zpsd6e49c73.jpg.html)

Trigger reach is the same as the stock gun in cocked position and the feel is for all the world like a CZ75B SA with a race hammer, you still have the FPB pretravel but that will only change if you are willing to change to no FPB which I will not for my carry gun. The trigger pull is 2 lbs 11 oz. so really no change there.
I like the shape of the trigger much more than the New style 85C trigger I was running this one does not pinch my finger but as you can see in the picture I have very large hands so this may not be an issue for everyone.



Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: DexterGSP on July 06, 2014, 02:02:52 AM
Terry, great write up as usual! 

I look forward to doing the mod. with my C100.

Paul
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Levinz11 on September 26, 2014, 09:29:33 PM
Old thread, I know. But dude, very informative. Mucho gracias! I got an S-120 and it's my first foray into a CZ style gun. Coming from 1911's there sure are a bunch of little springs and pins in there! I had no issues though just following this thread along page by page. Good on you for taking the time to write this up. I installed CGW springs, pins and CZ85 trigger.

If you still check in I have a question...Can you install the race hammer only (instead of the whole kit) if you have removed the FPB and filed down the stock lifter arm?
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on September 27, 2014, 12:16:46 AM
Levinz
First thanks for the kind comments.
Helping others is exactly why I wrote this.
To answer your question, maybe. Ha, ha
The removal of the FPB will get rid of one timing issue, however I have not played with this combination to see if there are other things that you have to deal with.
The sear and fpb lifter have legs on the bottom that time events off of the trigger bow.
It not only impacts the firing pin block but also the double action reset point.
And There is also the problem that the hammer for the Canik is only sold as part of the kit. The standard CZ comp hammers do not fit Caniks without modification as the Canik uses a larger pivot pin.

Sorry it is not conclusive, but the Caniks can take some tweaking when doing modifications. Something that I learned from doing this series.

Another option is DexterGSP has had some good results modifying the stock hammer and sear. I will see if I can get him to comment on his work.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: DexterGSP on September 27, 2014, 02:36:24 AM
My C-100:

I installed the CGW's light trigger return spring and a 15# hammer spring with a light firing pin spring.  If memory serves me correct it dropped the single action pull down a pound from the original springs.  I also did the SA mod and put in a CZ SA trigger.  I cleaned up the sear and the hammer hooks too.  I used a triangle shaped stone and kissed the sear face and the face of the hammer hooks.  I also broke the leading edge of the sear by a thou or two.  Most if not all of us are assuming the fire control parts for the Canik pistols are case hardened so be careful not to get real crazy with a stone.  A lot of people will not touch case hardened parts because they are afraid of blowing through the case hardening, but I've been pretty successful doing it.  Most case hardened parts in in firearm manufacturing is at least .010" thick.  I took down the hammer hooks about .003", which was just enough to get the hooks squared and clean.  I really wouldn't want to take the hooks down anymore than that as it may interfere with the FPB's timing.    The trigger pull in the end was much better than the factory one.  I use the pistol for CCW carry and the trigger is OK I guess.  There's still some creep in it, but much less than it started with.  I have been able to consistently shoot 2" groups with the pistol at 50 feet.

If obtaining parts for this pistol was not an issue I would attempt more modifications with the sear and hammer.  I really don't like Tristar (see my thread about there customer service).  If CZ started to produce a compact in an aluminum frame again I would buy the CZ and sell my C-100.

Paul
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Levinz11 on September 27, 2014, 08:38:38 AM
I shortened the hammer hooks a hair and polished the sear as well. The trigger pull is great now. There is still that slight stacking (creep) feeling before it breaks but yea, I agree, it's much easier to shoot well with now.

The only reason I want that CGW race hammer is looks, really. The stock Canik hammer is pretty fugly.

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on September 27, 2014, 12:19:26 PM
I shortened the hammer hooks a hair and polished the sear as well. The trigger pull is great now. There is still that slight stacking (creep) feeling before it breaks but yea, I agree, it's much easier to shoot well with now.

The only reason I want that CGW race hammer is looks, really. The stock Canik hammer is pretty fugly.

I agree the stock hammer is ugly and the ring is located in a lower spot on the hammer than CZ's. So for myself I initially got hammer bite out of it.
Flying Brass did a little also but his stopped, and then he was only getting a sore spot from the edge of the beavertail itself.

Also I agree with Paul in that If CZ produced the compact with a safety in alloy, that it would be my first choice. The work I did and all the playing around with several Caniks has pointed out that whether they come from Tristar or from Century that the factory changed a lot of little things and keep making rolling changes so each gun has some small differences (i.e. light rails on Stingrays changing in width, really? why?)  That said I love my little C-100 and since the S.A. conversion I am thoroughly happy with it.
With the hammer and sear from CGW and the S.A. conversion my C-100 is indistinguishable from CZ75B SA with a competition hammer when you close your eyes.
It is really that good.

The slight stacking before the trigger break is the Firing Pin Block, I spent a lot of time checking out the timing with the barrel off and verifying this.
There are 2 ways to remove, 1 as you were talking about is to remove the FPB, the other is what I have done which is the SA conversion.
The SA trigger has less pretravel because the trigger was designed to remove the un-needed travel. This moves the trigger back to the start of the FPB movement, so as soon as you move the trigger you are engaging the FPB, so you do not feel any stacking effect.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: flyingbrass on October 15, 2014, 04:34:44 AM
I did my C-100 the same as DexterGSP.  I polished everything with guidance from this thread and others in this forum.  If you want to learn more how these pistols work, taking one apart and polishing is a good way to learn.

BTW, the tool mentioned by 75plus in the last post of the first page of this thread is well worth making.  See: http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=51650.msg316253#msg316253  I found an old Dremel bit with an odd-sized shaft was the right diameter,  and I glued it into a small piece of wood dowel to provide the correct spacing.  It works as advertised.  With the tool in place, the end of the mag brake will squeeze into place even using the aftermarket 15 lb spring on my C-100, though you need to wiggle the spring around some to get it in there.  Great, simple tool.  Either make one or alter your mag brake.  Take your pick.

To begin with:
Polishing job
15 lb. mainspring
Reduced power firing pin spring

Results:  For those who care about DA (I don't, but left the parts in anyway), it was much smoother.  Still felt some hitches in the SA pull,  and the SA weight wasn't improved very much.

We drilled a CZ SA trigger, intending to use it, but after handling Dexter's pistol I noticed the reach is not the same as the stock trigger.  Sure enough, comparing the triggers with toothpicks stuffed through the pin holes to align them, the surface that your finger touches is farther forward on the SA trigger.  I couldn't measure, but I'd say somewhere between 1/16" and 1/8".  That doesn't sound like much, but it is in feel.  Those who have fairly large hands may not notice, or may even appreciate, the longer reach, but for me the SA trigger feels too far forward.  So, for now I'm sticking with the stock trigger.

The stock trigger return spring was very hefty.  In Round 2 we replaced it with the lightweight version from CGW, and at the same time cleaned up the sear face, keeping the same angle.  Also gave the sear a "relief" style cleanup/squaring on the very edge.  Also polished up the hammer ledge, again keeping the original angle.  This made quite a difference in the SA pull weight.  Going by feel, 1/2 lb, likely a bit more, reduction.  I don't know how much was from what.  I suspect the lighter trigger return spring is responsible for most of it.

The end result is pretty much the same as Dexter's trigger, so this process is repeatable.  SA still has some occasional hitches in the pull, near the beginning (not as rough as before), but I think that is to be expected given the limited ability to alter these parts.  You have serious positive rake occurring, plus slop in all the parts.  And, you can't take much off of anything.  It's not a match trigger, or anywhere near as nice as Terry's (and I have felt his), but is a considerable improvement over stock.  I suspect these mods are the best one can do with these pistols to get the best "bang for the buck" on a limited budget.

DA, for those who care about it, is now pretty nice for an auto, so I have been told.  In my opinion it's on par with an untuned S&W revolver both in weight and smoothness.

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Walkman on August 20, 2015, 10:26:21 PM
Great thread, Terry!  Thanks for sharing your modification process.  I plan to do some of these to my C-100 as well.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on August 21, 2015, 12:06:04 AM
You will love it!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on October 05, 2015, 09:08:08 PM
Just decided to ad an updated Picture.
I have changed a couple things around.

I have done a modified SAO Straight Blade trigger.
I only put this in because it is what I tend to have in my other guns.
I like the look and the consistency of feel between the guns.

The process is the same as the SA trigger with enlarging the hole.
There is one caveat with the Flat trigger, it has a pretravel screw and that is very useful if you remove the firing pin block.
When you leave it in though, you have to be careful about not taking out too much pretravel out of the trigger.
Having done this addition before I am aware of the limitations.

There is a problem that people do not initially realize.
You have to check the trigger reset, cocking the hammer while the trigger is HELD BACK.
This simulates the action of the slide cocking the hammer, once the hammer is cocked release the trigger.
If there is not a click, the trigger did not reset! This means when you fire the gun the first round will fire and after that the trigger will not reset.
Not the best scenario in a life or death situation. You can pull the trigger it just does not do anything.
If you have this you back out the pretravel and retest until you feel a click. Then when you pull the trigger the hammer will fall as it should.

Another change is I went from the Cocobolo grips to the standard CZ rubber grips.
They screwed right on with no manipulating or modifications.
And lastly in this picture you can see one of Joes stainless baseplates on the standard Canik magazine.

I may later change the frame to black for a less conspicuous look while maintaining the usefulness of the hard chrome slide.

Here is a picture of the current state.
(http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l260/terrymc_01/HANDGUNS/1005151734_zpsqaqjga5v.jpg) (http://s98.photobucket.com/user/terrymc_01/media/HANDGUNS/1005151734_zpsqaqjga5v.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: ArLEOret on November 12, 2015, 10:04:21 AM
Excellent report though I may never to use the info. These old hands don't have the dexterity to do it. I enjoyed reading it. Never saw these pistols locally though.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on November 12, 2015, 03:36:58 PM
Thx, ArLEOret,
The C100 is a well kept secret from the masses, and really inexpensive at between $320- $350 depending on current availability.

End result is a gun I would put up against any $1200-$1300 custom for less than 2/3rds the cost.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: rich63 on November 13, 2015, 07:10:24 PM
terry mc,

I have just read this entire thread. What a job you did with pictures and explaining everything. I was glued to the computer reading this. I just bought a Canik Stingray and changed out springs and did internal polishing. My trigger pull numbers are very similar to yours. The only thing I have is while pulling the trigger, the pull is smooth throughout just until the break, a slight heaviness, then bam the trigger breaks. Other than that heaviness, no complaints on the trigger pull.

schmeky posted on 11/09 that a newly designed 85c trigger is to be released for the CZ's and Canik/Tristar's and I plan on purchasing one. I looked at CGW Ultimate Canik Upgrade,   http://cajungunworks.com/product/30100-the-ultimate-canik-upgrade/   to possibly install into my Stingray. Just not sure if I have the know how to do this. If filing the adjustable sear and cage like you did here, I think may be above me. Won't know you can do it until you jump in and try. For now, the Ultimate Canik Upgrade is on hold.

rich63

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on November 13, 2015, 09:10:02 PM
Glad you enjoyed it Rich.
It took a while to do, but it was also enjoyable.

To me there is nothing better than saying I did something myself.

Check with David about the adjustable sear, when I discussed it with him, he said that he would be making some future adjustments to try and compensate for Canik's running model changes on dimensions. So he may have them adjusted to fit all of them as long as Canik hasn't changed dimensions again. Worth a phone call, and David  and Scott are very straight shooters (no pun intended).
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: copterdrvr on November 25, 2015, 01:12:40 PM
Rich,

I installed the CGW 3 piece spring kit and the 85c trigger in my C-100 and I don't think I installed the reduced power trigger return spring MAINLY because I don't think it was available when I installed the other components.

When the pistol was disassembled I also did the recommended polishing of the internals of the pistol.  I did NOT cut or reshape any of the control surfaces, just polished.

My pistol now has a double action trigger pull of 8 lb 8 oz and the single action trigger pull is 3 lb 13 oz. The trigger pull on this pistol is awesome. I have mediumish sized hands and I find the 85c trigger to be a considerable improvement over the factory setup and definitely worth the money.

I've had revolvers that didn't have trigger pulls as good as my C-100.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: rich63 on November 25, 2015, 04:50:13 PM
copterdrvr,

I have the spring kit, canik floating trigger pin, rp-trs and 14# rsc installed in my Canik Stingray specifically the 11.5# hammer spring. My trigger pull numbers are quite impressive DA - 5 5/8# and SA - 2 3/4# with 100% reliability so far.

The pull is smooth just before the break, very slight heaviness then it breaks. From what I'm told this is the hammer. I'm ok with the trigger just the way it is.

Appreciate the update on the 85c trigger. Sounds like a good deal for you. schmeky has redesigned the 85c trigger and from what I understand there is less curve on the new one. Going to eventually purchase one of these for my Stingray.

I just purchased a 75b SA and might be doing some upgrades before the Stingray. Hey, who knows, might just get all the parts at once and upgrade both guns together.

rich63
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on November 25, 2015, 05:54:47 PM
Rich you have great taste in guns.
I have owned 2 SA's and have a 97B converted to an SA so they are a passion of mine.
Once you get done you will absolutely love both guns.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: rich63 on November 25, 2015, 10:06:16 PM
terry mc,

Thank you terry mc. The CZ is great platform. I'm really looking forward putting some rounds through my newly purchased used 75b SA. From what I've read and have been told, the SA is one of the easiest of the CZ's to upgrade. One of the upgrades I'm interested in is a new hammer. With the hammer comes CGW adjustable sear. I'm very apprehensive to tackle this sear. Perhaps David can shine a little more light on it.

I own the 75b, SP-01 Tact, P-07 and very soon the 75b SA, and 1 clone, the Canik Stingray. The only other CZ that I would love to own and doesn't exist is the 97 with ambi decocker. Hopefully, that particular model is in the development stage.

rich63
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: tbirdshooterguy on January 12, 2016, 02:01:32 PM
Fantastic tutorial.  Appreciate it.  Looks like another project for me!  You mentioned Jo's stainless base plates.  Did I miss where you picked those up?

Rod
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on January 12, 2016, 04:32:50 PM
Tbird,
Glad you like the thread.
That is what this forum is all about, us helping one another.
The information you read is based on a lot of other threads that many many members shared and
made it so that I felt comfortable with the process myself.
You will be amazed by how nice the Canik triggers can be.

Joe goes by 75plus.
I do not know if he is making the baseplates for the Canik.
He sent me some prototypes to try and we found that Canik has some variation on the frame dimensions that varies from
model to model and sometimes year to year.

The guns are great but the factory makes small changes that make it hard for people like 75plus and CGW to make parts for.
I discussed this a little on the sear cage and sear fitment, when I found the safety arm rubbed the side of the sear cage.

Best bet is to send him a PM and ask him if he is making them.
He also has Neodium magnet safety detent balls that are great for reassembly since they stick to the safety instead of rolling around the floor.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: tbirdshooterguy on January 13, 2016, 06:52:43 AM
Thanks for the reply.  Great work.

I will contact him.  Get my C-100 Friday....So looking forward to it.

R
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: tango9mm on January 15, 2016, 05:39:27 PM
hey, great pics of your c-100.
I just put my c-100 on layaway this morning.
oh happy day...
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on January 17, 2016, 01:41:58 PM
Hi Tango,
I just replied to your PM.

For all of you, I have decided to try CGW's Canik Barrel Bushing once he gets them back in stock.
David says it should be this month or next so I will order once they have hit his shelves.

I think that it is probably overkill for me as my hands are not those of a surgeon or a bullseye shooter, not steady enough.
But the C100 I have made is just such a fantastic little gun that I cannot resist going one more step.

It may take a little while to do a review as I have to find someone that has a ranson-rest local that is willing to help me out to do a before and after. Or maybe I will just pick up a Hyskor.
I think that is the only way, along with some match ammo to see the differences that will be achieved.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Brawny on January 21, 2016, 09:33:56 PM
I went ahead and got the spring kit before I even got the gun! I hope to get it in next week and my plan is to switch out the springs before I even shoot it. This thread will surely make short work of changing my springs.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Tpepper70 on January 21, 2016, 09:47:04 PM
Brawny, shoot it with the stock springs so you can truly see how big a difference the new springs make. Glad I did.

Cruce Dum Spiro Fido

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Brawny on January 21, 2016, 10:16:51 PM
Ok, I'll compromise. I'll dry fire it first :)
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on January 22, 2016, 01:35:25 PM
Brawny,
I agree at least dry fire it first as the DA on the stock gun is pretty much deplorable.
Then when you do the springs, and hopefully a little polish you will be amazed how much better it will be.
BIG DIFFERENCE!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Brawny on January 25, 2016, 06:41:00 PM
I read a little bit of this thread every day. Don't let it end!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Brawny on February 06, 2016, 06:20:13 PM
Did the trigger spring switcheroo and everything went smoothly. Thanks Terry!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on February 06, 2016, 08:08:55 PM
Awesome!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: SanAntonioRocks on February 09, 2016, 09:54:27 PM
Thanks guys glad you are enjoying it.
Tomorrow Stage 2 hammer and sear kit.

flying brass,
I know what you mean, first I was waiting for parts then I up and decided to change guns so I started the wait over again.
Patience and in the end it will be worth it.


See you guys tomorrow, good night all,

Wow! That looks beautiful and the drop in pull is very impressive!
How much did this spring mod part of the project set you back???

Will be reading your follow-on mods with great interest!

Roger
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on February 10, 2016, 10:14:16 AM
The Springs are cheap $17 for the springs, and $5 for the firing pin retaining pin so that you can replace with new.
Here is a link.
Springs
https://cajungunworks.com/product/spgk1-3-piece-spring-kit-2/
Pin
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/

I hope you enjoy the gun and the modification process.
I really recommend the polishing also if you are mechanically inclined, it really makes the trigger pull much smoother.
Keep us up to speed on your progress Roger!
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: SanAntonioRocks on February 12, 2016, 10:06:36 PM
The Springs are cheap $17 for the springs, and $5 for the firing pin retaining pin so that you can replace with new.
Here is a link.
Springs
https://cajungunworks.com/product/spgk1-3-piece-spring-kit-2/
Pin
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/

I hope you enjoy the gun and the modification process.
I really recommend the polishing also if you are mechanically inclined, it really makes the trigger pull much smoother.
Keep us up to speed on your progress Roger!

Awesome!
Thank you.

Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Jedman7 on March 29, 2016, 03:23:44 PM
Terry MC,

Is there a way for me to lighten the DA pull of my C100 without buying all the extra stuff you have listed in the first post?  I don't want to replace the trigger that came with my C100, nor the hammer, etc.  But it would be nice to get the DA trigger pull down.  Are there just springs that can be swapped out?  How difficult would this be?

Thanks for any help you provide,

Frank
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on March 29, 2016, 05:36:52 PM
Terry MC,

Is there a way for me to lighten the DA pull of my C100 without buying all the extra stuff you have listed in the first post?  I don't want to replace the trigger that came with my C100, nor the hammer, etc.  But it would be nice to get the DA trigger pull down.  Are there just springs that can be swapped out?  How difficult would this be?

Thanks for any help you provide,

Frank

Hi Frank,
The best step for getting the double action down in weight is to do the spring kit.
That will get you about an 8 1/2 lb. DA trigger with nothing else.
If you do the polish and the springs only those two items will net you around 7 1/2 lb. DA trigger.
Since the stock has been measured at nearly 18 lbs for DA, that is a huge jump.

The springs will make it lighter, polishing will make it even lighter still and make the trigger so much smoother.
It takes all the grittiness out of the stock trigger.

You will still have some camming of the hammer which is that little bit of increased pressure at the end of the trigger stroke, but the rest of the feel is just like butter when polished.

The hammer gets rid of the camming issue so that is why I did it and the sear as a seperate stage.

Let me know if you have any more questions, we are all here to help one another.

These are cheap modifications and not that difficult if you are mechanically inclined.

Terry Mc.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Jedman7 on March 30, 2016, 02:14:30 PM
TerryMC,

Thanks for the reply.  I have a T120 and a C100.  Where do I get the spring kits for each of these?  Is the installation process the same with both firearms?  Also, does this affect the safety of the gun in any way?

Thanks,

Jed
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on March 30, 2016, 05:52:23 PM
TerryMC,

Thanks for the reply.  I have a T120 and a C100.  Where do I get the spring kits for each of these?  Is the installation process the same with both firearms?  Also, does this affect the safety of the gun in any way?

Thanks,

Jed
Here is the link I sent another member
The Springs are cheap $17 for the springs, and $5 for the firing pin retaining pin so that you can replace with new.
Here is a link.
Springs
https://cajungunworks.com/product/spgk1-3-piece-spring-kit-2/
Pin
https://cajungunworks.com/product/61100-tempered-spring-steel-firing-pin-retaining-pin/

I hope you enjoy the gun and the modification process.
I really recommend the polishing also if you are mechanically inclined, it really makes the trigger pull much smoother.
Keep us up to speed on your progress Roger!

As far as safety, you still have the Firing Pin Block and the safety still fully functional so you should be good.
I have put thousands of rounds through my C100 since doing all the work on it, and it has been extremely reliable, only 2 misfires due to hard primers in over 4000 rounds so that would be .05%! They were from the same box of ammo and I have not had one since.

They should be the same install on both. The only ones that are different are the ambi safety models and the polymer Caniks which are a totally different design.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Jedman7 on March 31, 2016, 09:24:23 AM
Great.  Again, appreciate the reply.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: NineN10mm on April 07, 2016, 07:07:25 PM
Hello,  I'm new here.  I own and modified an SP-01 Tactical with decocker, a 75B.   Just bought a C-100 recently.

on the C-100, once I took the original Hammer Spring off, it is very hard to put it back on while inserting the small lip of the flat metal piece.  I've settled on the black 11.5# HS from CGW.  But before that, the little lip actually got bended nearly straight out with the force of the original spring (I didn't have a third hand to slip in the pin). 

Judging on how it works, I decided to shear off the lip on that flat metal.  I rationalize that as long as I can slip it into the tight crevice all the way down, it'd be ok, since the mag will pressure it against the frame anyway.

Am I correct ?

The SP-01 and 75B are easy to slip in the hook/latching lip.  But the C-100 was really tight, and I can't see the justification to actually have it latched in.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on April 07, 2016, 08:26:55 PM
NineN10mm,
I have basically done the same thing.
The way it comes is with the tab wrapped around the pin, and it is a bear to try and get it straight and to rewrap around the pin.
I left a little bit of the tab to keep it more secure, but I did trim mine as well.

When the tab is completely gone, I have had the magazine brake pop loose and block a magazine on a CZ before so I leave as much material as I can.
However the C100 is really tight on this fit, so I doubt it would happen on the Canik/Tristar but anything is possible.

Terry
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: NineN10mm on April 08, 2016, 06:25:14 PM
Thanks, Terry.

It would have been a lot easier if they had a lanyard loop at the end of the spring cap, so we can push in the spring on just a flat surface. :)
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: h8louzn on March 27, 2017, 11:51:58 PM
Sorry to bring up an old thread.
Thanks Terry I have now sepnt 163.00 at CGW on my C-100 and P-120 and not finished!
Will update with new numbers..
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on March 28, 2017, 10:00:20 AM
Sorry to bring up an old thread.
Thanks Terry I have now sepnt 163.00 at CGW on my C-100 and P-120 and not finished!
Will update with new numbers..

Glad I could help spend you money, Ha ha

The plus is you will love the gun when you are done.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: h8louzn on April 01, 2017, 12:31:09 AM
Put 300 rounds thru them on wed. Not one issue. Now to put the parts in.. SA Trigger pull dropped .5-.8 just shooting 150 rounds.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: briang2ad on April 08, 2017, 11:56:11 AM
Looks like CGW doesn't sell the sear/hammer separately now.  So... if you want a hammer sear it is $300.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on April 09, 2017, 08:22:25 PM
This is a shame.
Since the low cost nature of the gun, leaves room for the dyi people to
make an excellent gun on the cheap.
I know David has commented that sales of these parts (Canik) have been slow so he cut back on the offered items.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: h8louzn on April 23, 2017, 11:16:47 PM
I talked to David and he is bringing back some of the parts. Hopefully it will be soon..
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: kvnndvn on June 17, 2017, 10:25:41 PM
Hi guys,

I just found this awesome thread. I must say it gave me a new respect for my stock C-100. My piece is identical to Terry's, but in .40 S&W. That said, being the next caliber up in power, can I use the same set up as everybody here? I also ordered Meprolight Tru Dot sights, and they should arrive in a few days. Looking forward to making this happen.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on June 18, 2017, 11:42:26 AM
Hi Kvnndvn,
Glad you enjoyed the tutorial.
Just got your Email as well.
yes allowing that the parts are available from Cajun Gun Works you can do the same things.
The trigger group should be the same.
(edit) I just looked you can buy the complete Canik Hammer kit again, half way down page 3 on his sight (end edit)


I think the Meprolight is a vertical blade so if that is the case you should not have any issues, only the fun is getting the stock ones out.

I will respond to your other questions on your email, on a responce to it directly.
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: Underwhere on August 11, 2017, 10:49:01 PM
Thanks for this thread.
I've done this same work before but never really had it so well laid out. I wish I had seen this a long time ago.

I have my Tristar p120 with CGW parts down to 2 pounds 10 ounces (SA). This is with the blue 13 pound hammer spring.

Before polishing the sear cage and associated parts it was at 3 pounds 8 ounces so a pretty significant difference.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Project "C-100" how to smooth a Tristar/Canik Long thread lots of pictures!
Post by: terry mc on August 12, 2017, 07:51:16 PM
Thanks for this thread.
I've done this same work before but never really had it so well laid out. I wish I had seen this a long time ago.

I have my Tristar p120 with CGW parts down to 2 pounds 10 ounces (SA). This is with the blue 13 pound hammer spring.

Before polishing the sear cage and associated parts it was at 3 pounds 8 ounces so a pretty significant difference.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

Glad you enjoyed it, I enjoyed doing the thread.
It is always fun to share your experiences with fellow enthusiasts.