The Original CZ Forum

GENERAL => Right to Keep and Bear Arms => Topic started by: armoredman on January 11, 2017, 10:23:55 PM

Title: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: armoredman on January 11, 2017, 10:23:55 PM
How about you? Suppressors over the counter? I'm all for it.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: Joe L on January 11, 2017, 10:44:11 PM
Yes.  Although it is too late for me.  I would love to have one for a .308 bolt gun and AR.
Joe
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: 1SOW on January 11, 2017, 11:06:01 PM
Amen to that!
Joe,  I have 3 alarm clocks that I set every night.  One is called a "Sonic Alarm" that is very loud (I'm told) and I modified it to flash my reading light on and off.  Without my wife's aggravation with the noise,  I sometimes would sleep through them.

I have a little hearing left,  and need to keep what I have.

Firearms blasts at the range sure aren't helping.  If the market for muzzle silencers expanded and became less expensive,  it would save more than one generation of shooters a lot of frustration.

Unfortunately,  aircraft and other dangerousb noise generating industries need to require 100% electronic communication ear protection that blocks all damaging sounds. 

Back to the thread,  YES!
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: tattooo on January 11, 2017, 11:07:34 PM
Count me in as well
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on January 12, 2017, 05:18:07 AM
I'm for it even though I have no use for one. The laws regarding suppressors just never made sense in the first place.
While we're at it the restrictions regarding short barrels needs to go as well.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: WilburWildcat on January 12, 2017, 10:58:42 AM
Heard a story about a hunter recently travelled to New Zealand.  Said suppressors were readily available and encouraged.  If you didn't use one for your hunt, you were considered a bit if an a-hole.
Need that noise abatement mentality here in the US of A...


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Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: tattooo on January 12, 2017, 11:42:30 AM
Heard a story about a hunter recently travelled to New Zealand.  Said suppressors were readily available and encouraged.  If you didn't use one for your hunt, you were considered a bit if an a-hole.
Need that noise abatement mentality here in the US of A...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Couldn't agree more.....There are so many positives to having a can...
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: villdetwink on January 12, 2017, 11:59:33 AM
Pretty sure most, if not all firearms enthusiasts want to see this Act pass!
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: hensc on January 12, 2017, 12:43:50 PM
I'm all for it, though I read somewhere that the demand would actually drive up the price for a while until supply catches up! But that's a good thing!


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Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: M1A4ME on January 12, 2017, 01:08:20 PM
You can sign up for a popvox account and "vote" for or against the passage of bills and even leave comments for your senators/congressmen to see/read. 

I "voted" for the passage of HR 367, To provide that silencers be treated the same as long guns.

https://www.popvox.com/us/bills/115/hr367

If you support it, why not let them know you support it.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: burley on January 12, 2017, 01:19:10 PM
(http://i622.photobucket.com/albums/tt309/burley_bucket/gun_in_ear_picdump_11-s643x476-167973-580.jpg)

Beats this guy's plug!
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: oldfrank on January 12, 2017, 02:34:05 PM
I think it will also open up the market and drive the cost of a suppressor way down.

There is no reason a threaded machined tube with baffles cost $800.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: 1SOW on January 12, 2017, 11:07:27 PM
Frank,  exactly my belief.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: cntrydawwwg on January 12, 2017, 11:43:25 PM
I'm for it even though I have no use for one. The laws regarding suppressors just never made sense in the first place.
While we're at it the restrictions regarding short barrels needs to go as well.
   This pretty much sums it up for me too.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: IronicTwitch on January 13, 2017, 12:43:57 PM
We had an indoor carbine match last year with guys running compensators on their AR's.  RO ended up with a concussion even though he was doubled up (plugs and muff).  We no longer run carbine matches indoors and can't find an outdoor venue.

Iowa just legalized suppressors last year - finally.  My form 1 was just approved in December.

Now the only shooters I don't look forward to shooting with are the guys without cans!
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: Tenbones on January 14, 2017, 11:32:35 AM
I agree that the present restrictions and taxes on suppressors are ridiculous, but we should be careful on how we present this argument.  Using the argument that the noise from unsuppressed firearms is a health issue, for instance, could backfire.  There are plenty of members of congress that don't fully understand the suppressor argument and they may decide that in the interest of better hearing health for all Americans, all firearms will be required to have suppressors.

Highly unlikely, I know, but nothing congress does anymore surprises me.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: John A. on January 14, 2017, 03:57:50 PM
You can sign up for a popvox account and "vote" for or against the passage of bills and even leave comments for your senators/congressmen to see/read. 

I "voted" for the passage of HR 367, To provide that silencers be treated the same as long guns.

https://www.popvox.com/us/bills/115/hr367

If you support it, why not let them know you support it.

I have contacted my reps directly.

And I own multiple suppressors.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: steveoreno on January 15, 2017, 01:30:42 PM
Between work, motorcycles and shooting have I have significant hearing problems, (someone get that phone!), and would welcome reasonably priced silencers.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on January 15, 2017, 01:59:32 PM
Someone needs to design a baffle system for toddlers. I'm 28 and already have constant ringing in my left ear. My 3 yr old little girls squids and screams when we play and makes this far worse. So... I'm ready for suppressors on all my firearms!!! Ya'll let me know if toddler suppressors exist too and I just haven't found them.  O0
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on January 15, 2017, 04:59:38 PM
Ya'll let me know if toddler suppressors exist too and I just haven't found them.  O0

I used to keep one in my wallet ;D
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: painter on January 15, 2017, 05:24:58 PM
Ya'll let me know if toddler suppressors exist too and I just haven't found them.  O0

I used to keep one in my wallet ;D
[Rimshot] :P
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: Scarlett Pistol on January 15, 2017, 06:20:47 PM

I used to keep one in my wallet ;D

Hahaha well played sir
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: jppaul16438 on March 20, 2017, 09:26:16 PM
I would love it.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: KGX on June 13, 2017, 10:23:20 PM
Looks like it might get folded into the SHARE Act this week... keep your fingers crossed: http://www.guns.com/2017/06/13/hearing-protection-act-before-house-committee-this-week/
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: John A. on June 13, 2017, 10:34:26 PM
It's also in the house as a standalone bill.

So, reality is, there are 2 separate bills, which may help increase the odds of this passing.

There are ~140 co-sponsors in the house, and I've already contacted my 2 congressmen for when/if it moves forward to Congress.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: armoredman on June 14, 2017, 09:19:31 PM
And with the Congressional murder attempt it will be very unlikely to see the light of day this year, if ever.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: tdogg on June 23, 2017, 01:44:06 AM
I want to build an ultalight mountain hunting rig with a silencer.  I'm waiting to see if this legislation gets through before starting the build.  I hope it doesn't get shelved because of the shooting!  This is common sense legislation.

Cheers,
Toby
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: John A. on June 23, 2017, 08:44:01 AM
Why wait?

Congress may never even bring it up to a vote.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: tdogg on June 24, 2017, 07:14:34 PM
The reality is I've got too much going on right now moving, having another kid, summer family time etc... To worry about it.  Plus not having to pay for the tax stamp would be nice.  I'm not going to finish this build before hunting season anyway so it will be a good winter project.  Maybe Congress will make something happen...

Cheers,
Toby

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: jameslovesjammie on June 24, 2017, 08:17:51 PM
Plus not having to pay for the tax stamp would be nice.

If it goes through, your tax stamp is refunded.

The suppressor market is in the toilet right now because of everyone "waiting" for the HPA to go through.  I don't honestly see it passing, especially after the DC shooting.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: John A. on June 24, 2017, 10:57:26 PM
Stamps after 2015 sometime are refunded.

I would have several that wouldn't be refunded.

But I don't care.  I still support passing HPA.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: Earl Keese on June 24, 2017, 11:10:13 PM
So are there any deals to be had on suppressors yet? I'm ready to get my feet wet...
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: czphan35 on July 05, 2017, 06:05:10 PM
Ohhh yea. I got a threaded barrel for my 75c that's just waiting to have a can on it  8)
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: armoredman on July 05, 2017, 10:40:02 PM
So I'm told another bill was introduced today or yesterday that would completely deregulate suppressors, but the only current story I can find is this one from CNNMoney, which is, considering the source, isn't too far unbalanced. It states that there are two HPA, one in the Senate and one in the House....and I can't find that any actions have been taken yet.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/21/news/companies/silencer-hearing-protection-act/index.html

If someone else has more up to date info, please let us know.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: jameslovesjammie on July 06, 2017, 12:08:44 AM
They have touched on it in different episodes of The Gun Collective on YouTube.  If you're not a sub, you really should.

This episode is over 4 months old, but most of what they say hasn't changed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wudrI7LA_YQ
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: gwvt on July 06, 2017, 08:31:28 PM
I didn't see any Senate bills and usually they go from HR to SR but, yes, there is this:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/3139?r=23 (https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/3139?r=23)

H.R.3139 - To provide that silencers be treated the same as firearms accessories.

Sponsor:    Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4] (Introduced 06/29/2017)
Committees:    House - Ways and Means; Judiciary
Latest Action:    06/29/2017 Referred to the Committee on Ways and Means, and in addition to the Committee on the Judiciary, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.

We will see but this is encouraging as it seemed that the HPA was dead in the water...

BTW, to browse legislative actions go to:
https://www.congress.gov/search?q={%22source%22:%22legislation%22} (https://www.congress.gov/search?q={%22source%22:%22legislation%22})

So I'm told another bill was introduced today or yesterday that would completely deregulate suppressors, but the only current story I can find is this one from CNNMoney, which is, considering the source, isn't too far unbalanced. It states that there are two HPA, one in the Senate and one in the House....and I can't find that any actions have been taken yet.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/21/news/companies/silencer-hearing-protection-act/index.html

If someone else has more up to date info, please let us know.
Title: But, what about ....
Post by: whiskeybravo on August 06, 2017, 03:11:58 PM
I am a responsible owner of firearms, just as so many others reading this. But, my opinion on this topic is very mixed.  I expect some blow-back to what I post here. Here are some things I want to point out.

1. The "happy path" to envisioning using a suppressor (as a norm) can occur only if you're surrounded by 100% other shooters who are equipped in the same fashion. Otherwise, you have to be alone out in the country where open shooting is more permissive, or you must be alone out in a woods somewhere by yourself. But what about the other shooting scenarios that I suspect are more common place for the rest of us? We have to settle for going to an open-air State Range or a gun club or a public shooting facility, such as Point Blank.  And, in these cases, we'll be surrounded by a mix of shooters. Most of them wouldn't have invested in suppressors for any number of reasons, including this one.

2. If suppressors become much more accessible (i.e. much cheaper, and nearly free of any government license-cost), think about the risk of how they may be used in a criminal capacity. That nagging element in society would just love to get his hands on one to quietly "take somebody out" -- and there would be virtually no audible detection to the rounds being fired.

3. Why is anyone convincing themselves the price of a suppressor (government fee aside) would drop down to some sort of "everyday-Joe affordable price"? Have you seen the price of your ammo drop like a rock since a Republican got to be President?  Have you seen the price of your favorite pistols drop at all? I have not seen that.

I would like some replies back to these points I've laid out here. Because, when you add them up together, it strikes me that this could be a bad deal for the good guys, and great deal for the bad guys.

Cheers.




Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: Ron M. on August 06, 2017, 03:36:15 PM
!. I can only speak for myself, but I really don't like wearing hearing protection when hunting. I hunt feral hogs at least twice a month, mostly at night. Not being able to clearly hear what's going on around me, especially at night, makes me not take shots I should. If I hear an unidentifiable sound I won't shoot, ear plugs tend to cause this. I can't use muffs due to them getting caught on brush while stocking.  A modulator makes hunting much safer. I have a modulator for use with my a 308 and 300Blk, that really helps.

2 I don't know how to respond to this other than that's nonsense. Modulators don't silence a gunshot, they reduce the sound level, but it's still it's plenty loud. You're also going to very clearly hear a supersonic crack from most rifle ammo.

3, Take a look at AR prices and tell me that again. Ammo prices have come down if you buy in bulk, 5 years ago you weren't going to get 500 rounds of 9mm for less than $100. Pistol prices have dropped too, Just picked up a new Sig P220 Combat for $622 from Bud's. You have to pay attention and use a price monitor like Slick Guns, but prices are dropping for most mid-range guns. Ruger, Remington, and Smith & Wesson are all offering rebates to keep sales up. Top drawer guns are still going to cost you more for hand fitting.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: jameslovesjammie on August 06, 2017, 03:37:15 PM
1.  Correct, but if more people had access to them, more people would use them.

2.  They pose the same risk they pose right now.  Suppressors have been on the market for over 100 years now.  There are more of them out there than you probably realize.  Before 1934, you could get them delivered to your door from Sears.  And you really need to do more research on suppressors.  They are far from undetectable like you see in movies.  If the round is faster than the speed of sound, you will still get a supersonic crack.  Some suppressors and cartridge combinations are still louder than what is recommended to shoot without hearing protection, but still greatly reduce damage to your ears.

It's just like a muffler for your car.  Right now, most of us are running without mufflers.  But with an exhaust system inplace, you can still hear that your truck is running.

3.  Supply and demand.  And the cost of MANY firearms and ammunition has dropped since the election.  Right now the firearms industry is in the "Trump Slump".  Companies are laying off workers because demand is down so much.  Some companies are down 25% in sales, and that is huge.

And bad guys don't obey the law anyway.  This won't affect them one bit.  Who it does affect are millions of law abiding citizens who are having to go through unnecessary bureaucracy and a year's plus wait for something that is an accessory.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: John A. on August 06, 2017, 03:49:50 PM
Bad guys are going to be bad regardless. 

Guns, bombs strapped to their chests, delivery trucks, baseball bats, Molotov cocktails, sticks and stones, roving gangs, etc etc etc.

Telling a lie has never stopped the anti 2A agenda anytime in the past, and if anything, they like to see who can "one up" the last lie with an even bigger and more unbelievable lie the next time they get on the 6 o'clock news.

This will not change with or without responsible silencer ownership.  I stopped cowering a long time ago.  I'm not hiding from anything.

Further, I have designed and built several silencers.

I do shoot at a private range because, well, it's my private range.  I don't have to deal with any more stupidity than I want to deal with.  I can shoot as fast or slow and walk out and change my target any time that I want to.  I don't need some RSO to hold my hand.

It's pretty obvious that based on some of your comments about "silent assasinations" or however you phrased it, are based on incorrect beliefs about how silencers really sound. 

As to your last point about comparing the price and availability of guns (or silencers) would hold true.

There are MANY major countries who don't even regulate silencers at all. 

The HPA doesn't even promote that if you actually read the proposed bill. 

They'll still be regulated, just like any other gun.  Background checks and all.  The HPA doesn't stop any of that.  Just the 12 month + backlog wait time down to the current NICS 4473 background check that currently exists because it's a better system than the one that is in place that's nearly 100 years old and been outdated for the last 30 years or more.

Back in 1934 when the law was enacted, knowing that everyone had unique fingerprints was state of the art, so they required fingerprints.

They knew that the local police knew who their troublemakers were, so they added that the police should sign the back of the form saying they're not wanted by the law.

I don't know where the passport photos came into being.  I wasn't aware of that even being a requirement in the beginning.

But in short, there weren't unique social security numbers, instant background checks and super computers that can access tens of thousands of names almost instantly like there are now.  If you listen to "the left" the current background system "works".

So why wouldn't it work just as well for adding another thing to have background checks for?

The main reason there is a $200 tax in the first place is because at the time (in 1934 when the law was made) was nothing less than putting the cost of the item out of reach of the common person because the $200 tax was the equivalent of about $3500 tax in todays terms.  So, it was a ban to circumvent ownership to anyone except big corporations and the rich.  Not much unlike how the politicians of today works too.

Heck, you could buy a shotgun in sears and roebuck catalog and have it delivered to your home by the post office for less than $20, but if you wanted to saw off the barrel to less than 18 inches, you had to pay the government $200.

A whopping 1000% markup of more than the gun was worth in the first place.

So, the only way those crooked politicians could circumvent the Constitution without the Supreme Court throwing it out altogether was to not ban them, but to tax them out of existence.

Or so they had hoped, but they're more prevelant today than they were 60 or 70 years ago.

I had my FFL's for nearly a decade, and I have more than a half dozen NFA items including machineguns and silencers.  I believe in following the rules and being a responsible owner.

I will say that I am not a fan of the NFA as a whole.

And the HPA is strongly needed.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: John A. on August 06, 2017, 04:27:06 PM
(https://www.bevfitchett.us/modern-firearm-silencers/images/3238_14_18-hiram-maxim-silencer.jpg)

(https://cdn-images-1.medium.com/max/1200/0*wlvkhZfX1w4n3SUV.jpg)

(https://www.bevfitchett.us/modern-firearm-silencers/images/3238_14_14-maxim-silencer.jpg)

(http://images.rarenewspapers.com/ebayimgs/6.47.2010/image098.jpg)

(http://www.kcstudio.com/maximg.jpg)
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM on August 06, 2017, 07:34:37 PM
Without going into a 2 page dissertation I'll just keep it real simple so even a cave man can understand it. The NFA and GCA 68 are pure crap as are all other restrictive gun laws. If a person wants a silencer,suppressor,can or what ever else you care to call it there should be no restriction buying it. Criminals will be criminals no matter what restrictions we impose upon ourselves.
The notion that crime would increase is pure idiocy. Maybe just check out the murder rate in Chicago last year and find out how many SILENCERS were used.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: tact on August 07, 2017, 11:49:05 AM
I own multiple cans and the time and money spent to acquire those accessories is ridiculous.  Having said that I'm pretty happy I ran down that road.  However, they should indeed be treated like an accessory and as such one should have the ability to purchase them over the counter just as they do in Europe.  Sadly I have little to no faith the HPA will pass and as mentioned in other posts I'm sure Congress will find a way to screw it up anyway.  On the flip side, since everyone seems to be waiting for this thing to pass the suppressor industry is taking a hit.  Workers are getting laid off and prices are dropping a bit.  I imagine the turn around time for stamps is starting to come down a bit as well.  If one is on the fence about going down NFA road don't wait for this thing to pass.  Even if it does we are supposed to get a credit for the stamp retroactively......supposedly. 
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: armoredman on August 07, 2017, 12:13:54 PM
I think we've answered that series of questions adequately.
I have seen HPA fail on it's own and attached to a bigger Sportsman's bill that has equally gone nowhere. If you want it - contact your elected officials. They only understand one thing - unemployment. Support this action or I will help you to unemployment.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: The Guardian on August 17, 2017, 07:54:37 PM
How about you? Suppressors over the counter? I'm all for it.

Should be a no brainer....so I'm sure there will be hysteria in the chambers of law-makers, figuring out how to vote based on some poll  ::)
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: Firearms Depot on September 21, 2017, 12:54:08 PM
How about you? Suppressors over the counter? I'm all for it.
The Federal legislative process has started, but it will be 1-2 years to see it thru. Slow process.....
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: Quercusmax on September 21, 2017, 06:05:47 PM
The good news, as most of you know, is that the HPA has now been subsumed into the new SHARE act that covers a bunch of other related thing (most of which I don’t cer about) that has now passed out of committee (which was farther than the HPA got.  Looks to have a good chance of passing unless the Republicans drop the the ball again, which seems to be what they are best at.

The only negative I see is that the one part of the HPA that didn’t make it in to the SHARE act is the provision for refunding all of the stamp money to people who purchased suppressors since the HPA was first introduced in 2015.  Having amassed a non-trivial stamp collection in that period, I’m a bit bummed although suppressors are like guns in that you could always use “just one more”.
Title: Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
Post by: sneefy on September 21, 2017, 07:00:55 PM
The only negative I see is that the one part of the HPA that didn’t make it in to the SHARE act is the provision for refunding all of the stamp money to people who purchased suppressors since the HPA was first introduced in 2015.

Like that was ever going to happen. The Federal Govt. returning the people's money? Something about a snowball's chance somewhere very warm...