The Original CZ Forum
CZ PISTOL CLUBS => CZ75, 75b, 75 SAO inc the Transitional => Topic started by: 03car31 on December 07, 2017, 05:28:41 PM
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I just picked up my poor condition surplus Pre B from my FFL. They did admit to me, they wondered if I knew what I had ordered.
The gun is dirty enough I felt like I needed a tetanus shot after opening. Someone thought silver paint would look good on it at one point. It is thick enough that it filled in some of the roll marks. The paint was so bad, it was actually coming off on my hands. On the plus, the roll marks on the left side look great. The ones on the right it is hard to tell with the paint as thick as it is there.
Original finish is gone so this will either be a cerakote or blue depending on how the metal looks when the paint is gone.
Having said that. The metal I can see looks good and everything functions. The trigger in both double action and single action are smooth. Single actions isn't as nice as my original 1911, but it better than most guns I have handled. Safety work and has nice positive clicks for on and off. No rattle to the gun when I shake it and it seems to lock up tight.
I will work on a good cleaning and full inspection this weekend and assuming it all still looks good I will take it out for some test firing.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qsgoc6re786hz4z/20171207_154623-800x600.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6cypmms5clpwj8w/20171207_154600-800x600.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cwtvsm95xfsrx43/20171207_151956-800x600.jpg?dl=0
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Field strip it.
Remove the grips.
Get a can of carb cleaner or brake cleaner.
Wear safety glasses/goggles and rubber gloves and spray that thing down good inside and outside (while you're outside) with the carb or brake cleaner. Keep spraying till the crud stops running out. Use the little tube that is taped to the can to reach back in the cracks/crevices and blow that old dirt/oil/crud out of there.
Let it dry, spray with some kind of spray oil/lube to keep the bare metal from rusting (the carb/brake cleaner may remove the rest of that old paint, too. It also removes the protective/lubricating oil from the metal surfaces and it'll rust quick if you don't get some oil back on it. Spray oil of some kind will let you work it back in places you can't wipe it on/into. Wipe off the excess oil/lube as it runs out.
Then you'll be ready to inspect the parts once they're good and clean.
Lots of folks will probably speak up about recommendations for replacing springs, etc. You can either try it as is to see how it works or just take it on faith that lots of use/firing and lots of years will make spring replacement a good thing.
You may find the cleaning, inspection, selection of new parts, installation of new parts, and "tuning" it up lots of fun. Hope so. I did when I got my "ugly" Pre CZ 85 a couple years ago.
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I thought your description had prepared me but...
(https://i.imgur.com/htQm5Sn.gif)
That's going to be a fun project. You can respring it and clean up the internals and keep it as a "sleeper" or restore it to its rightful glory. Either way, I expect you'll have a lot of fun with it!
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Cleaned her up some. This will be nice when I am done. Unfortunately who ever painted it scraped off the original enamel finish and there are lots of surface scratches. Media blasting may remove those.
On the bright side, just look at those roll marks. They are in great shape.
The barrel locks up nice and the bore looks good. Don't see any thing that would make think it won't shoot well.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/xgzjz8edyqxpuvg/20171207_194638-800x600.jpg?dl=0
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Very nice, 'car. For the final finish, do you think deep bluing would allow you to see the roll marks better than the Cerakote?
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A deep blue would be my first choice. If I can get the metal even colored and the scratches cleared up I will get prices on that. I can do the cerakote, but haven't really blued a gun before. Just done touch ups with cold bluing.
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If done well, the cerakote shouldn't make the numbers/letters on the slide/frame hard to see. Primary Machine cerakoted my Pre B CZ 85 for me.
The "G" in LUGER wasn't stamped right in the first place. It wasn't the cerakote that made it fuzzy. Even the letters on the frame area easy to see/read.
(https://i.imgur.com/EGV276Yl.jpg)
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That's going to clean up nice!
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That cerakote does look nice.
The shootability is my first priority so I can decide on the finish later. I think springs are a great idea. Time to start the research into spring weights for best performance.
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Went to the range today. This is my first CZ, so let me say, WOW. I didn't know what I was missing before.
This gun can shoot. First time to shoot a gun that I wasn't even 100% sure would go off when I pulled the trigger and I shot it well. They point so natural it might actually be hard to shoot bad with them.
I had feeding issues. It looks like it may be the lips on the magazine. I will have to work on that. And look in to a few more.
I guess springs will probably be my first parts to replace. Has to wait until after Christmas now.
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Great news. The only reason I replaced my barrel was bad pitting in the chamber. I knew the barrel was pitted and shot it that way a time or two, then while cleaning it after one of the range sessions I turned the barrel upside down and saw how badly pitted the top of the chamber was.
Again, good luck with it. They can be great "shooters" even when not pretty.
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That reminds me of a car I bought long distance. The delivery truck driver was concerned that I would be horrified. The bones look good. If you put in some effort, and a very small investment, it will be as nice as you like.
I love a project like that.
Good luck, and show us the "after" pix.
Merry Christmas
Rich
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I had feeding issues. It looks like it may be the lips on the magazine. I will have to work on that. And look in to a few more.
I guess springs will probably be my first parts to replace. Has to wait until after Christmas now.
I agree. I would start with springs and mags. Then see how things go.
All best. :)
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There are threads explaining how to open up the mag well so it will take modern Mags.
A fellow by the name of SPO1SHADOW has some incredible restoration threads on here where he describes all the steps and details. I'm restoring one right now and the finish was just flaking off. Got everything back together and just need to shoot it and take some time figuring out what to do for the finish. You'll have some fun and welcome to the addiction!
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I had ordered two of the CZ 75 B magazines when I ordered the gun. I did the modification on the frame to accept then last night. They lock up better in the gun. No movement. The original could move some. Not a lot, but some. Comparing the lips on the original to the new, the original looks like they have opened up some. Hopefully the new magazines will help with the feeding. I will also change the springs in the gun and see if that helps some.
I did some research on hot bluing at home. That looks like an art form. I don't know that I have the skills to pull that off right now and I want this gun as more than just a project. I may have to go with cerakote. I have coated a gun before and at least know what I am doing with it. Of course I also know that bluing is easy to remove if it doesn't turn out nice so I don't really have a lot to lose trying it.
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Good to hear that the mod for the new magazines went well. My pre-b had some additional material to remove and it took me 4 nights or so to get it right, but it was not normal for the pre-b's I've heard other people work on.
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Mine just took a few minutes.
Where was that extra metal at? Sides or back? Between the sear cage and the magazine brake?
Always curious about funny/odd/different - just in case I run into some day on one of mine.
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Mine took about 30 minutes, but I was trying to go slow and check it every few swipes. I was nervous.
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Mine just took a few minutes.
Where was that extra metal at? Sides or back? Between the sear cage and the magazine brake?
Always curious about funny/odd/different - just in case I run into some day on one of mine.
I'll snag some pics when I get home, hard to describe via words as compared to some pics. Does yours take the 17 round mecgar mags too? Or are there any that don't fit?
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Mine just took a few minutes.
Where was that extra metal at? Sides or back? Between the sear cage and the magazine brake?
Always curious about funny/odd/different - just in case I run into some day on one of mine.
I'll snag some pics when I get home, hard to describe via words as compared to some pics. Does yours take the 17 round mecgar mags too? Or are there any that don't fit?
It takes some of them. they are not all the same "size". I say that because I bought about 8 of them (with the two round base on them, so they hold 19 rounds) and half of them fit. I think there were 3 or 4 that would not fully insert/lock in. They stopped short and I didn't want to "beat" them into the mag. well. The other fit just fine, not even hitting a snug spot on the way in.
All the mecgar 16 round magazines fit just fine.
If you have more than one CZ, any of the mecgar 17/19 rounds that don't fit the Pre B will fit a newer CZ.
I remember measuring the ones that didn't fit and they were different in either width or front to rear depth?? but I don't remember what the differences were, but it was enough to keep them from working. Evidently the 16 round Mecgars are more uniform in size than the larger capacity magazines. Maybe made on different machines? Or at a different locations??
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Mine just took a few minutes.
Where was that extra metal at? Sides or back? Between the sear cage and the magazine brake?
Always curious about funny/odd/different - just in case I run into some day on one of mine.
I'll snag some pics when I get home, hard to describe via words as compared to some pics. Does yours take the 17 round mecgar mags too? Or are there any that don't fit?
It takes some of them. they are not all the same "size". I say that because I bought about 8 of them (with the two round base on them, so they hold 19 rounds) and half of them fit. I think there were 3 or 4 that would not fully insert/lock in. They stopped short and I didn't want to "beat" them into the mag. well. The other fit just fine, not even hitting a snug spot on the way in.
All the mecgar 16 round magazines fit just fine.
If you have more than one CZ, any of the mecgar 17/19 rounds that don't fit the Pre B will fit a newer CZ.
I remember measuring the ones that didn't fit and they were different in either width or front to rear depth?? but I don't remember what the differences were, but it was enough to keep them from working. Evidently the 16 round Mecgars are more uniform in size than the larger capacity magazines. Maybe made on different machines? Or at a different locations??
That was my experience, the 17/19 rounders would hit the rear top fave of the mag well and then they would hit the sear cage. They are just a little bigger to fit the extra round. It doesn't seem to matter on B models, just Pre-B.
Here's a pic of where I had to remove more material on my Pre-B. It was hard metal and I went slow and checked often so I didn't ruin the frame. (https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20171212/e995f11efe585fdb72f2eee1f7c2e31c.jpg)
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
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I used a flat file and took the material off the back. Mostly above the magazine brake and below the sear cage.
That's probably why is was quicker. Flat file, flat area in the mag. well.
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I used a flat file and took the material off the back. Mostly above the magazine brake and below the sear cage.
That's probably why is was quicker. Flat file, flat area in the mag. well.
Oh I did the back side too. Once the mag cleared the bottom back area they wouldn't insert more than a half inch or so and I had to start working that front side.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
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I had ordered two of the CZ 75 B magazines when I ordered the gun. I did the modification on the frame to accept then last night. They lock up better in the gun. No movement. The original could move some. Not a lot, but some. Comparing the lips on the original to the new, the original looks like they have opened up some. Hopefully the new magazines will help with the feeding. I will also change the springs in the gun and see if that helps some.
I did some research on hot bluing at home. That looks like an art form. I don't know that I have the skills to pull that off right now and I want this gun as more than just a project. I may have to go with cerakote. I have coated a gun before and at least know what I am doing with it. Of course I also know that bluing is easy to remove if it doesn't turn out nice so I don't really have a lot to lose trying it.
Call Cajun Gun Works, ask them about getting it black nitrided, much better than cerakote, and provides excellant rust protection, can also be done on the inside and outside of the barrel..small parts like saftey levers, slide stops can also be done. I had them do this to my sp-01 compact, and it turned out great ! It'll cost a little more, but you'll only need to do it once..
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I took the gun completely apart and stripped off any of the paint and old finish left. I have decided to polish the scratches out and attempt a hot blue. Want to learn how and now is as good a time as any.
Ordered a set of Wolff springs. Ordered the performance pak. It has a 12 and 16 recoil spring so I can see what I like best for standard 9mm loads.
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Congrats on the PreB and first CZ. I, like you it seems, like the 1911 trigger, but heard so much about these guns I had to dive in with a Buds special (poor grade). I ordered a pre-B, but they sent a B model and a $30 coupon code for the difference.
Whatever you do, don't go to this site and look around - cajungunworks.com
Cheers!
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Congrats on the PreB and first CZ. I, like you it seems, like the 1911 trigger, but heard so much about these guns I had to dive in with a Buds special (poor grade). I ordered a pre-B, but they sent a B model and a $30 coupon code for the difference.
Whatever you do, don't go to this site and look around - cajungunworks.com
Cheers!
That's right, CGW is like crack for CZ owners, all it takes is for you to buy a few simple things, extended firing pin, lighter firing pin saftey spring, one of their trigger return springs, and their removable trigger pins, lighter hammer spring, and the next thing you know, you're buying another CZ, and sending it to them to do the full monty on.. it's that bad..
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I just ordered a used Pre B from Buds in Fair condition and I?ll prob need to make these modifications as well
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Finally got my restoration project Pre B to the range yesterday. Even with the finish all messed up it was perfect. I worked the hammer hooks as far as I dared on the OEM hammer. It isn't like a race hammer or Competition hammer. The sear cage still moves even after I pinned it. The front sight is still blacked out. But... With the frame work, lighter springs, polishing and love it was incredible! It was 100% reliable with an 11 lb CGW hammer spring, lighter firing pin spring, and extended firing pin - - - on S&B primers!!!
You guys are in for a treat when you work on yours!
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Spent the evening polishing the frame and slide to remove scratches. I still need to do some work, but it is looking a lot better.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/bqickvw1fd3u0g8/20171217_205702.jpg?dl=0
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That's really coming together!
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Well, I was right. Bluing is a skill and unfortunately one I do not posses.
I hope to get the gun back together in the next few days and will post pics. It looks a lot better than it did.
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Looking forward to it, 'car. :)
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Looking good! I love these Pre-B projects! You are making great progress, and that will be a looker, and a great shooter. A few years ago I was able to find a new in box 1991 Pre-B. It is my favorite CZ. I didn't want to modify it to accept B mags, but the new Mec Gars fit it perfectly. So between the two Pre-B mags that came with the gun, and my Mec Gars, I am good.
I may have to do one of these restoration projects some time. Looks very rewarding.
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New spring came in today so I was able to get her put back together. Everything appears to be functioning perfect, just have to get to the range some time to know if this fixed the occasional feeding issue.
I am no pro when it come to restoring or refinishing, whatever you want to call it. I do feel like this came out pretty well, especially since this was my first attempt at bluing. Attached is a before and after for everyone. Let me know your opinion and anything I could do on future projects to make it better.
Before
https://www.dropbox.com/s/qsgoc6re786hz4z/20171207_154623-800x600.jpg?dl=0
After
https://www.dropbox.com/s/fm6iwyu7wrskq06/20171223_183018.jpg?dl=0
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Congrats, that's a great first pass at restoration
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
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Looks pretty good. Now you need to find out how it shoots.
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^^Your "After" picture looks pretty good. :)
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Not just pretty good, but GREAT! Nice work!!!
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that's a great choice for a project gun, thanks for the pics... :)
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Thanks everyone. It is definitely a fun project. I think I will do a cz 50 next.
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I think I?d like to do something very similar to you to the Pre B in fair condition I got from Buds as well. I?m a complete noob to anything related to refinishing a gun. What method of bluing did you use? Thanks in advance
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I used sodium hydroxide and potassium nitrate in distilled water to do a hot blue. I am pleased but think I can do better with more practice.
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My first CZ75 pattern was a witness p-3, and those tanfoglio 101900 magazines can be found for less than $25, fit and shoot well in 4 87-93 pre-b's. MecGar makes them for Tanfoglio. That is a no brainer for me...
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are you kidding me, what a great project and outcome...congrats
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Thank you everyone.
These projects are addictive and gunbroker is an evil site made to make me broke. My cz 50 should be in Monday and I will start on it.