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GENERAL => Tactics and Competition => Topic started by: newageroman on February 28, 2018, 11:57:34 AM

Title: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: newageroman on February 28, 2018, 11:57:34 AM
I'm a ruger fan, I'm cheap and I was planning on running an M1 carbine(as an excuse to underperform) until I saw the new ruger PC rifle.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: kmanick on February 28, 2018, 02:32:50 PM
hmmmm since AR's are already banned here in the Socialist Republic of mass, this may be a viable option for me moving forward
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: jameslovesjammie on February 28, 2018, 06:02:55 PM
I think it will be a popular option for beginners.  It's a Ruger, so it should be reliable.

One guy at our club has started shooting PCC with a Marlin Camp Carbine.  He runs iron sights and does ok.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: 1SOW on March 02, 2018, 07:39:41 PM
This might be the "time" to get one and set it up.  Might be valuable later on. :'(
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: John A. on March 02, 2018, 07:55:05 PM
There are actually quite a few negatives posts about them on youtube.  I'm not going to search for them, but I watched one about 2 weeks ago.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: TomFoglio on March 02, 2018, 10:55:35 PM
No.  It looks terrible honestly. 

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: koteris on March 06, 2018, 01:16:05 PM
I checked one out in a local store.  I actually kind of liked it.  There is some negative stuff on youtube, but some positive stuff as well.  I'll probably try one....maybe run it in steel challenge.  Takedown feature is nice and I bet magpul comes out with a backpacker stock eventually.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: MoRivera on March 09, 2018, 08:43:29 PM
I have one and love it.  With a red dot you feel like you can chase the hole all day, and it's very quiet.  I don't do 3-gun (at least not yet), but a few steel and plate competitions allow PCC's so I'm going to be shooting it there.  A breeze to maintain as well.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: newageroman on March 12, 2018, 12:02:42 PM
I got to check one out in person this weekend. First impressions, might as well be a barbell, cause it is heavy. I only got to check it for less than a minute - got a call from a friend while in the shop. The only one they had in the store was a LE model. I asked what the difference was and they said nothing, only LE or ret. military can purchase it - probably a good thing for me or would have came home with it.

I'll have to look up bad reviews/comments on it to see if that would bug me, but the only thing Ive heard was a bit of a loose front handguard.

Barring that, the LGS is having a big ruger sale next month - I'm hoping I have enough at that point to bring home. I'm within driving distance of the CMP south store and also need a 1911 when they show up and still need a garand as well. decisions decisions...
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: John A. on March 12, 2018, 01:52:19 PM
I asked what the difference was and they said nothing, only LE or ret. military can purchase it - probably a good thing for me or would have came home with it.

You must live in one of "THOSE" states.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: volbagman on March 12, 2018, 02:33:51 PM
I have a ruger PC9 and really like it. I don't find the weight to be a drawback. I've just shot the irons at 25 yards so far but it is accurate. Might be tough in a 3 gun if you get a 175 yard shot. AR would be better in that case, I'm thinking.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: John A. on March 12, 2018, 02:44:36 PM
How so?

sights better?
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: volbagman on March 12, 2018, 02:50:23 PM
I was thinking better range at that distance w ith a 556 than a 9mm. I just think the pistol caliber carbines are 100-150 yard max for a regular guy like me. Crack shots may be better.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: MoRivera on March 12, 2018, 03:32:35 PM
Yeah at 75+ yards, I would probably want to shoot something with a flatter/farther trajectory.  Although the PC should handle hot-loaded 9mm with aplomb...probably where that extra weight would come in handy.  There is talk of possible caliber conversions...maybe even a .357SIG.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: John A. on March 12, 2018, 04:53:24 PM
I'd definitely be in for one at 45acp.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: volbagman on March 13, 2018, 07:52:44 AM
45 acp would be sweet. I wonder if Ruger is going to make it in other calibers
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RPN on March 13, 2018, 08:23:57 AM
10mm would be a dream machine for me.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on March 13, 2018, 10:01:52 AM
I'm getting mine back from Ruger tomorrow. It went back due to the forend/barrel assembly coming loose while shooting even though it was super tight. We'll see if they fixed it or issued a new one. From the 60 or so rounds I tried putting through it, it seemed to be ok. My grip probably lends itself better to a fixed stock model and not a takedown.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: newageroman on March 13, 2018, 11:46:51 AM
Thanks for posting Rocket. I hope it works out for you. Please let keep us posted. I don't think the local 3 gun stages are more than 50 yards or so, but they do have a 200 yd rifle range. If that is to be in the mix, I'll try the M1 Carbine as I don't own an AR ( :o) yet. I've got a list of walnut and steel that needs saving before I go polymer and Carbon fiber.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on March 15, 2018, 11:26:39 AM
Unfortunately the same issue is happening. They replaced the takedown block in the receiver. It turns out in swapping barrels/receivers around with a buddy that has one, my barrel is out of spec and doesn't fully insert into either of our receivers. So now I have to go full circle with Ruger again and see what they want to do. It will be for sale after I get the barrel issue taken care of. I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars going to a match and not fully trusting that it won't have the same issue if I am pushing it hard.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: volbagman on March 15, 2018, 12:12:52 PM
dang, that sucks. now I'm worried. knew I should have waited longer
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: MoRivera on March 15, 2018, 12:38:20 PM
Sorry to hear about that.  Mine's been running like a champ, but I don't blame you for flipping yours since it's left such a sour taste.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: newageroman on March 20, 2018, 03:43:20 PM
hmmm. good to know, thanks for the followup. I got to shoot one this weekend and I'm still sold on it. LGS is having a big sale in a couple of weeks, I'm squirrleing until then. Is this a problem that can be spotted before purchase (putting it together at the counter)?

I also heard about a guy with a barrel that was out of spec, but it was some errant rifling.

Anyone else know of any issues to lookout for?
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: volbagman on March 20, 2018, 03:52:54 PM
I shot mine again this weekend am really no longer worried. The gun ran perfectly. Very accurate at 50 yards. Although I find the front post difficult to acquire. Trying to decide if I want an optic for it.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: MoRivera on March 21, 2018, 12:44:48 PM
I shot mine again this weekend am really no longer worried. The gun ran perfectly. Very accurate at 50 yards. Although I find the front post difficult to acquire. Trying to decide if I want an optic for it.
Do it.  I ran a Vortex Venom and now a C-More, and it doesn't miss.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: volbagman on March 21, 2018, 01:15:12 PM
will either of those co witness with the iron sights? I like to keep irons available in case optics fail. Or I guess I could get some offset irons
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: MoRivera on March 21, 2018, 05:51:25 PM
will either of those co witness with the iron sights? I like to keep irons available in case optics fail. Or I guess I could get some offset irons
No, not with their standard picatinny rail mounts.  If that's the case, then something with a see-through riser I guess.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: volbagman on March 22, 2018, 07:58:49 AM
I might get the Bushnell that was on the Sportsmans Outdoor Superstore email yesterday. At $35, it is so inexpensive. Surely it will work on something if not the PC9
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: LukeB on March 23, 2018, 01:08:20 PM
Since they added PCC to IDPA I've been tempted to try my Hipoint 9mm carbine out. It's not the prettiest gun (by a long shot) but it shoots great and it would be a lot of fun!
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: MoRivera on March 23, 2018, 03:10:36 PM
Yeah, I'm considering shooting my PCC at a local IDPA if they allow it.  It's not offered as a division option during registration.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: LukeB on March 23, 2018, 05:26:04 PM
I think we added it at ours after enough people asked for it. It started with just one or two and now we have about half a dozen each match. It is really interesting to see all the different styles and types of carbine people have.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: pdq5oh on April 03, 2018, 09:16:39 PM
I bought a PC9 and have about 150 rounds thru it so far. Zero issues or malfunctions. I ran 147 HP reloads, 124 +P HP Hornady ammo, 115 & 124 reloads in various charge weights. Everything ran fine. With the iron sights and my poor eyesight it's plenty accurate enough to 50 yds. I plan to put on a 1-6 scope and shoot to 200 and see what it does.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on April 04, 2018, 09:03:32 AM
Well, finally had a chance to go shoot my Ruger Carbine after it's second trip back from Ruger. They replaced the barrel with a new one, and once again had the same failure. Now I have to contact them to see what my options are since this will be the third time it will be going back. I am going to try and make a tutorial Friday night of how to recreate this issue, since I've been able to do it with multiple carbines. I'm leaning towards either my receiver is out of spec now, or a design flaw if I can produce it with multiple carbines.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on April 04, 2018, 07:48:59 PM
Well, finally had a chance to go shoot my Ruger Carbine after it's second trip back from Ruger. They replaced the barrel with a new one, and once again had the same failure. Now I have to contact them to see what my options are since this will be the third time it will be going back. I am going to try and make a tutorial Friday night of how to recreate this issue, since I've been able to do it with multiple carbines. I'm leaning towards either my receiver is out of spec now, or a design flaw if I can produce it with multiple carbines.

Turns out they want to see the carbine (Just fedex overnight shipped it with their provided label), and when they receive it... "Management will make a decision" what that entails I do not know. Anyhow all you have to do is try to rotate the stock out while firing like you would when taking it down, just don't use the takedown lever to do it.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: MoRivera on April 05, 2018, 10:59:48 AM
Did you ever try to take it down without locking the bolt back?  Maybe that could have messed something up?
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on April 05, 2018, 11:59:53 AM
Did you ever try to take it down without locking the bolt back?  Maybe that could have messed something up?

I believe that is impossible, since the top of the chamber mates with the bolt face, there is a male to female component lock up designed there.

As seen above the feed ramp in this picture. https://imgur.com/SM3Ylh0 (https://imgur.com/SM3Ylh0)
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: MoRivera on April 05, 2018, 12:34:58 PM
Did you ever try to take it down without locking the bolt back?  Maybe that could have messed something up?

I believe that is impossible, since the top of the chamber mates with the bolt face, there is a male to female component lock up designed there.

As seen above the feed ramp in this picture. https://imgur.com/SM3Ylh0 (https://imgur.com/SM3Ylh0)
That's why I asked, like maybe it was somehow forced in/out and screwed something up.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on April 05, 2018, 02:11:00 PM
Did you ever try to take it down without locking the bolt back?  Maybe that could have messed something up?

I believe that is impossible, since the top of the chamber mates with the bolt face, there is a male to female component lock up designed there.

As seen above the feed ramp in this picture. https://imgur.com/SM3Ylh0 (https://imgur.com/SM3Ylh0)
That's why I asked, like maybe it was somehow forced in/out and screwed something up.

Nope, the issue lies within the takedown on the forend assembly. They use a tapered pin that mates with a recessed section of the receiver, unfortunately the taper is too long and will always walk itself out. They designed it to be easy to takedown, but it makes it easy to come apart while firing also.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: newageroman on April 05, 2018, 03:37:28 PM
Crap, Well keep us posted. especially if you make a video on it. I put one on layaway last week and hoping to pick it up next friday. I'm looking forward to loading one bullet for both carbine and pistol.

I hope Ruger treats you right. Have you read about this problem on any other forums?
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on April 05, 2018, 03:51:54 PM
Crap, Well keep us posted. especially if you make a video on it. I put one on layaway last week and hoping to pick it up next friday. I'm looking forward to loading one bullet for both carbine and pistol.

I hope Ruger treats you right. Have you read about this problem on any other forums?

I have not seen any mention of it anywhere else, I suspect it is due to the popularity of public range users and very few competitive users. When running it hard in USPSA/Steel Challenge is where the issue became obvious for me. I have a video on my phone just have to upload it after work.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on April 05, 2018, 05:37:51 PM
As promised here are the videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cST_3Ds7Dnk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cST_3Ds7Dnk)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOyrnNSEAYU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOyrnNSEAYU)
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: newageroman on April 06, 2018, 09:46:55 AM
well dang. thanks for posting the vid. I'll have to check that.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: newageroman on April 22, 2018, 06:33:34 PM
ran the PC Carbine in USPSA this weekend. no issues. I didn't think to torque the barrel during firing like you have demonstrated, I'll try that next time and see what happens.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on April 23, 2018, 11:34:05 AM
Ok so I have a little update. My father (machinist) was able to cure the problem of the forend coming loose. I'm in talks with Rugers PCC group leader on how to correct this for the future. What it comes down to is that they used the same takedown mechanism on a 10/22 and adapted it to the PC9. Unfortunately the extreme taper on the locking lever does not provide enough of a positive lock while firing a 9mm vs a .22lr to keep the two pieces together. I'll update again with the fix but after I'm finished talking to Ruger. I have now owned the carbine for two months and shot all of 40 rounds through it with three trips back to Ruger. With the fix I have now fired over 400 rounds in two days with zero issues. I took second in PCC in my first ever USPSA match with a rifle as well as 1st in PCCO and high overall in a Steel Challenge match out of 70 shooters. I hope to have more info soon, but I'm just glad we were able to get it running correctly.

(https://i.imgur.com/jBki9jA.png)
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: Dan_69GTX on April 25, 2018, 09:57:53 AM
Around here all 3-gun matches require more than a PCC.  The shortest rifle distance is about 100 yards.  The last match there were several out to 515 yards.  I initially considered using a M1 carbine, but that wouldn't cut it at those distances. 

Where in the country are you that 3-gun rifle isn't really a long distance?

I'm shoot in VA, and WV.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on May 01, 2018, 01:40:50 PM
Well, I finally received word back. They don't approve of the modification to make their firearm safe and reliable. If you are looking to use one of these carbines for USPSA/Steel Challenge etc. Good luck! They are unable to remedy this issue at the factory and they can only offer you more magazines for your time wasted and match fees down the drain. Great for a range toy, competition I would pass onto something reliable if you are going to attend major matches and wish to be a serious competitor.
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: MoRivera on May 01, 2018, 06:21:00 PM
I shot mine at a knockdown match and had no issues, ran like a champ and did really well.  Sorry to hear that yours had such problems.



(https://image.ibb.co/bNXrad/PC.jpg)
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: newageroman on May 02, 2018, 09:25:29 AM
Quote
They don't approve of the modification to make their firearm safe and reliable.
Who is they? is it Ruger or USPSA?

For the guy asking about 3 gun matches with short distances, I don't think he's used this for 3gun, just USPSA and steel, which are both relatively short distances (~30yds max).

I zeroed my red dot in this weekend and was able to hit paper plates at 100 bagged. No issues, but forgot to try the torque thing again. I ran it in USPSA a couple weeks ago and only had minor shooter imposed issues.

Great match results BTW!
Title: Re: anyone considering running the Ruger PC carbine for 3 gun?
Post by: RocketRyan on May 02, 2018, 02:03:58 PM
Quote
They don't approve of the modification to make their firearm safe and reliable.
Who is they? is it Ruger or USPSA?

They being Ruger. It really sucks because I do well with it, so many people ask to check it out etc. I can only let them know it was not reliable for me enough to recommend it for competition. It's not just a bad batch either, since I am able to do it with every carbine I've handled so far (3 now). I'm still going to use mine until I feel like the lack of proper pistol grip and short under barrel hand guard effect my results. I'm a thumbs over shooter on my AR platform so I've got my thumb a little warm a few times ha.