The Original CZ Forum
CZ LONG ARMS => CZ Scorpion EVO => Topic started by: Buffman on May 07, 2018, 11:54:28 AM
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Anyone see this post on IG from IRV8888. These do not look like like OE mags
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/974/41909957422_3e02bc4fdc.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/26RrudN)IMG_7462 (https://flic.kr/p/26RrudN) by Matt H (https://www.flickr.com/photos/slvrwrx/), on Flickr
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They look Magpul-ish...
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They are new magazines made by CZ.
Sven
Manticore Arms
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They are new magazines made by CZ.
Sven
Manticore Arms
Any details on them?
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Interesting
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I just purchased one on the cz USA website. 30 bucks,kinda steep.
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nice keep us posted
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CZ part number 11355
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Is it possible,finally a mag that doesn't break??
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Is it possible,finally a mag that doesn't break??
Did you mean to say: "Is it possible, finally a mag FROM CZ that doesn't break??"
;)
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Would be nice if they where drop free also.
Keep us updated.
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I just ordered one.
Used SCORP25 for 25% off. Will report back.
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Anyone know if any of the components are 922r?
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I got a few in today. They are oddly a little longer than the old ones. I ordered five and some drop free and others don't. I don't see USA marked on the base plates but they do appear to be very similar to the old ones. I was able to install my USA marked base plates onto the new mags. The new followers don't fit into old mags as well though. They appear to drag in the old magazines. On my gun, they are also noticeably harder to insert into the gun on a closed bolt.
https://imgur.com/a/014c6qc (https://imgur.com/a/014c6qc)
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Great photos. Thanks.
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Thanks for the info and those great comparison pics. Bummer on the lack of "USA" markings :(.
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It's interesting to see the approach they took on the new mags. It seems very clear that they were trying to address the cracked feed lips.
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Seems like before they just "appear" on a website that you would hear an announcement, reviews, or details of the improvements. Did I miss something?
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Oddly enough I first saw them on CZ USA's Instagram page during the NRAAM.
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IMHO, doing it quietly is the only option given the number of original mags that are out there and the potential to otherwise stir up a whole lot of discontent.
Furthermore, they would have had to do a major amount of controlled testing to make any claims about improved feed lips or other 'problem solving' improvements such as a different polymer. They are leaving it to the court of public opinion - which I think is the right move for them, for now - and I hope their new mags turn out great. It's actually really important that they do! Even for their aftermarket competitors because it solidifies the platform.
It's quite the marketing conundrum with the other argument being that without specifics, it's hard to convince the skeptics (like me) to take a chance on it. Perhaps more information is forthcoming at a later date.
The lack of USA made components however (according to the above post), may be a sign that CZ USA is not all that committed themselves just yet...???
Anybody seen these being shipped with new firearms?
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Well I would eagerly buy some if they (CZ) made the case that these were the cat's meow. This way you are left wondering is this another possible problem child. We just don't know.
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can't say for certain, since I don't get all of the insider info, but the latest info was the US factory online by end of summer. These may be a prototype/new design for what will be produced at the US factory soon.
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Good that they've attempted to address it, although way too late.
I'll see how people feel about these new mags in a year before I go buying any, hopefully CZ is replacing the old makes that fail with these newer ones. Everyone loved the original mags for quite awhile, until they started having issues, so until it's 6-12 months from now and everyone still loves the new mags it's too early to say one way or the other if they are better. I've learned too many times never pay to be a beta tester.
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So, I received a couple of the new magazines yesterday, shot 50 or so rounds today. They fit and function well and drop better, though not perfectly.
That's good, of course.
One difference I did notice is the cutout for the bolt at the back of the magazine is significantly larger, that is deeper, than the originals.
I thought it was absurdly deep for 9mm, so I tried .40S&W, which went in OK and presented a lot of the case head for the bolt to strip. About 20 rounds of .40S&W was about all I could fit.
Wasn't CZ considering a .40S&W conversion barrel?
Another change I noticed was that the follower was lacking the raised rectangular section at the top. Not sure why it was there in the first place, but that portion is now rounded and smooth.
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Mine arrived today and easily drops free from ALL 3 bolt positions.
My carbine is an early 2017 model with the mag area unmodified.
None of my other USA CZ mags, both 20 and 30 round, drop free when the bolt is locked back with the slide lock.
I'm a happy camper!
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I ran the new mags in my Scorpion last weekend and they ran fine other than a tight fit. Some light sanding on the mags really helped w/ seating the mags and release. My Scorpion is an early 2016 w/ a PMM mag release. I ordered some of the original translucent mags which ended up being 2017 production. Oddly enough they fit similarly to the brand new mags in my Scorpion. They will need a little less sanding to get working right in my Scorpion. The 2015 production mags seem to be the only mags that work trouble free in my Scorpion.
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I've shot many 1000's of regular and subsonic suppressed though my SBR'd EVO with the 6 original OEM 30 rounders I bought over a year ago. Have another dozen in the package, but haven't had 1 issue yet with original OEM 30's or the 2 20's that came with the pistol. Would pick some up if they were available at local LGS, but otherwise wouldn't go out of my way.
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The change at the top of the mag with larger "round" cutout is probably their for the same reason airliner windows have curved corners vs 90 degree. Just like with old airliner my gen II mags always failed at the 90 degree corner. Speculation of course.
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Does anyone know if any CZ reps comment here? I would think that they would be here answering and commenting on these issues. You get on Falfiles and often there are comments from industry types.
I will credit the guys here like Manticore, Prepper, and HBI.
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In revenues some this week and I like them. Will see how they hold up but just from handling them they seem to be better made
Sent from my SM-N910V using Tapatalk
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Anyone had issues with these refusing to lock in? I have one that won't lock into either trigger pack I have. No issue with previous gen 20/30 round magazines. The new one can't go in far enough to fully engage the mag release catch.
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Anyone had issues with these refusing to lock in? I have one that won't lock into either trigger pack I have. No issue with previous gen 20/30 round magazines. The new one can't go in far enough to fully engage the mag release catch.
Mine are hard to lock in on closed bolt but no issues with open bolt
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With the bolt back I can lock it in by manually pushing the mag release backwards to engage the tab but it won't do it on its own. Seems to be a problem with this magazine specifically. I sent cz-usa an email about it hopefully they can send a replacement.
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This ongoing magazine fiasco really makes you wonder. Go back to the drawing board- design some metal mags - charge what you need to make a profit - end of story. Without 100% reliable mags, the Scorp will remain nothing but a "hobby" gun.
I would pay way more to have magazines that I could count on!
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Anyone had issues with these refusing to lock in? I have one that won't lock into either trigger pack I have. No issue with previous gen 20/30 round magazines. The new one can't go in far enough to fully engage the mag release catch.
Mine will not either. I'm disappointed.
This ongoing magazine fiasco really makes you wonder. Go back to the drawing board- design some metal mags - charge what you need to make a profit - end of story. Without 100% reliable mags, the Scorp will remain nothing but a "hobby" gun.
I would pay way more to have magazines that I could count on!
I 100% agree. I'm somewhat bitter about it at this point. CZ really needs to step up the mag game here. Just have lancer make them and charge whatever it needs to be. I'd rather pay $50 a mag and know they are G2G then have a bunch of iffy mags.
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Unfortunately when there's a new mag design/version released fitting issues are common with all the various tolerance stacking combinations out there. Pmag went through it, heck no one can seem to get a 10/22 magazine to work reliably in all the various 10/22's except Ruger regardless of price. New guns are the easiest because there have been no subtle parts/design/dimesion changes across time. Not an excuse, it shouldn't happen, but sadly it seems to be the standard these days.
The Scorpion does seemed cursed when it comes to mags. It took them so long to address the cracking issue, that if these new ones have issues fitting that would suck. On the plus side that's probably easier/faster to fix than changing the entire mag style/supplier. I never liked the price of MPX mags, but at least they work and hold up.
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In my case it looks like the tab on the back of the magazine which hits the stop in the mag well is just slightly too high. My guess is I could hand sand the top of the tab and the mag would lock into place. I'll see if CZ replies to my email before I mess with it but in my case that seems to be the problem. I'd guess 1mm or less material needs to be removed.
(https://i.imgur.com/VGlyCtj.jpg?2)
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Can you take that pic with the mags lined up from the top so we can compare
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I feel this needs to be said:
The Scorp at present is a good hobby gun but not a serious "weapon." (If yours is a master blaster great, but enough of them out there are not.)
Just about every aspect of them has something that needs to be tweeked, shimmed, filed, re-enforced, worked around. The postings here are just jammed with these "fixes."
Mags
Trigger Springs
Welded Trigger Packs
Sling mounts breaking
Enough.
Don't get me wrong, I have the carbine, Manticore Mags, HBI Trigger/Springs/enhanced charging handle - and I consider the jury still out on my personal Scorp. I will be putting it through the paces this Summer but as a whole this thing is like a death from a thousand cuts.
Again I gravitate to (high quality) military type weapons AR/Ak/Fal/Sigs - guns that you can always count on. The Scorp has a long way to go.
If CZ got moving on the Mag issue I would feel much better about this issue.
Again: Does anyone from CZ monitor these discussions? They are going to lose the PR battle. It is like we are in the dark about current Scorp issues. One reason I went with a Scorp (first non-military design gun I have purchased in 20+ years) was because of the reputation of CZ quality reputation.
I have not given up - yet - but seriously they release another mag design and it has issues - come on!
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Sir I am precise in my word choice.
You are aware that there are 2 distinct Fal magazines types? Inch and Metric and only one receiver type will accept both kinds of magazine designs. I would nearly bet that 90% of gun guys wouldn't know which from which if they had one in each hand.
Same 90% who think Scorp has no issues. That statement has no bearing on my statement regarding quality.
And it's also pretty common knowledge that certain AK magazines aren't all that wonderful either. The Croatian and the Korean are generally held in low regard right next to most of the US made magazines. Then most people would rather puke out of their nose rather than to recommend a US made AK for various and sometime rightful reasons.
Are you responding to what I actually said. That is why I specified "QUALITY." Bulgarian Circle 10/Hungarian Tanker. Oh the Quality AK is Bulgarian SLR 95. Yes USA are junk. I agree that there is a lot of junk out there. It may look good but quickly fails under pressure. Go to AK47 Operators Union to follow that saga.
welded trigger packs are to make it easier for them to comply with importing them into certain countries. That's not even really a spec to worry about and is more grasping at straws just to find something to complain about.
No - just another CZ PITA -why all the discussions here and free drill offers?
Yes, they could lighten trigger springs from the get-go. Mags could be better. No argument there. At least they're moving forward with them.
Well they just fumbled the mag fix.
I may seem to be harsh but I want this thing (Scorpions) to be great and it will take CZ to do that. I have one and have not considered selling but these issues need to faced head on.
The Czech's are world famous weapons designers and builders. I just want the Scorp to take its rightful place, not be involved in a 3 Stooges Stage Show.
Then I can/will buy a 2nd one!
With Respect
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I'll break out my calipers and measure the tabs. I also contacted CZ. I'll wait before I file anything but I am on the same side right now as 3guneric with his "hobby vs serious use" argument. I was going to purchase a micro k when they came out but right now I'm looking at the Sig MPXs. Expensive mags with an expensive gun but oh well.
I'll report back with the measurements.
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The difference between the old 30 round mags (Oct 2017 mag which fits/drops free without filing) and the new "waffle design" mag is roughly a 1mm in height on the lug in the back. The width difference was minor. I'm sure removing that difference could make the mag fit but then again, the fact that we are having to "hand fit" mags is a bit ridiculous if you ask me.
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CZ: I agree - the need for "fixes" is over.
SIG: I'll add this: MPX's seem to be breaking lots of firing pins lately, but their mags are good to go.
It's not just CZ dealing w/ issues.
Now if Daniel Defense would offer spare critical parts for their DD5V1 7.62 I would be happy. It is their propriety design and it is great but they will not sell me spares. If something goes wrong it is covered. I just want to have a few critical parts on hand.
Go figure!
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I kinda think people like that idea and say ?Hey fix the mags and I?ll pay whatever? until that happens and they?ll sell their 700.00 Scorpion because mags are 60.00 each. I have a couple MP5/K clones and only use German internals and mags which cost me between $50(used) - $75(new). MKE(Turkish) mags are still about $40 or when I last checked and POF has been the budget option. Having 2 platforms that use those mags is how i justify the price and the clones are pretty expensive as well. Not sure the general population will pay $50+ for mags on an inexpensive platform. How popular are the steel lipped mags for $20.00?
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You have a point.
But the example you use shows that for the MP5/K there are an array of options. Options on the Scorp front are limited. I did go w/ the Manticore mags.
I would be hard pressed to find another gun example where OEM mags are less desirable than aftermarket ones though. I wish Mec-Gar would step into this void. That would get fix it and make Mec-Gar even richer.
(P.S.: I just sent this idea in to Mec-Gar.)
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In my case it looks like the tab on the back of the magazine which hits the stop in the mag well is just slightly too high. My guess is I could hand sand the top of the tab and the mag would lock into place. I'll see if CZ replies to my email before I mess with it but in my case that seems to be the problem. I'd guess 1mm or less material needs to be removed.
(https://i.imgur.com/VGlyCtj.jpg?2)
i took .007"(.177 mm) off mine and it works fine.
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You have a point.
But the example you use shows that for the MP5/K there are an array of options. Options on the Scorp front are limited. I did go w/ the Manticore mags.
I would be hard pressed to find another gun example where OEM mags are less desirable than aftermarket ones though. I wish Mec-Gar would step into this void. That would get fix it and make Mec-Gar even richer.
(P.S.: I just sent this idea in to Mec-Gar.)
I think you made an excellent point regarding the OEM not being regarded as high as some of their aftermarket competitors. I?ve been super fortunate to only have damaged one mag thus far. I shoot suppressed 90% of the time and just recently notice a cracked feed lip.
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Sanding the top of the tab on the back of magazine fixed it. I didn't measure with calipers but it was a really small amount of material, just a few swipes with a file.