Author Topic: refinishing  (Read 2341 times)

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deftac03

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refinishing
« on: April 18, 2006, 04:34:03 PM »
I'm finally getting around to refinishing my steel Witness compact.  I've done tons of research on company websites and gun forums, and wanted to cast the net to cz forums as well.

For those of you who have refinished your pistols the home gunsmith way, which finishes have kept on ticking and which were crap?  BTW, this will be for a gun that doesn't see much CCW carry in a holster.

I plan on sending the components out to put the metal "in the white", and then use a spray gun to apply the finish.

Looking for any and all input.

Offline LDD

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refinishing
« Reply #1 on: April 19, 2006, 07:30:28 PM »
I use Gun Kote by KG Industries.  Fairly easy to do at home.  Have it bead blasted with aluminum oxide, spray on their K-phos treatment (substitute for zink phosphate parkerizing), spray on the Gun Kote.  Bake in the oven.  If you screw it up let it cool, wet sand it with 400 or 600 grit and do it over.  

www.kgcoatings.com/

To me Gun Kote is an excellent finish, easy to do, inexpensive, can always refinish it if it gets scratched up or whatever.

I specified alum-oxide blasting media because the glass beads leave a smooth rounded depression whereas the alum-oxide leaves a microscopically ragged impression for better adhesion.

Offline SpaceGhost

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refinishing
« Reply #2 on: April 20, 2006, 08:45:38 PM »

I've used Duracoat with success.

Blast the parts, clean/degrease then mix the two part paint and spray on.  I have a Cz75 and a Springfield XD done this way.  It lays on even, dries quick, doesn't run and can be but doesn't have to be baked.

ironman0311

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refinishing
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2006, 12:22:01 PM »
I don't know if this fellow sells a home do-it-yourself kit, but, I do know that this is one of the best finishes I ever had a on a gun!

Tough. Flat Black. And, it even allows you to have your barrel and bore done as well.

I had Stealth Coat applied to a Full House Custom Kimber and it is superb!

Accuracy (It was a tack driver before/after) was unaffected and it (Bore) cleans up easier.

No worries about sweat or rust ever again!

1.www.dtic.mil/ndia/2002infantry/daw.pdf
 
2.www.gunfinish.com/

Maybe give them a call and see if he sell a do-it- yourself kit?


Offline Miossi Gun Works

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refinishing
« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2006, 04:23:54 PM »
Gun Koat and Dura Coat are excellent products but like all the DIY spray and bake coatings only protect the exterior of the gun.  They are not suitable for many of the internal parts like the trigger bar, pivot pins, hammer, sear and other items with critical clearance and that need a smooth surface.

If you want total protection and the benefits of self lubricating surfaces you should consider Black-T and similar treatments and if you want the benefits of additional wear and hardness you can't beat hard chrome.

Jim

Miossi Gun Works LLC
702 Park Dr
Monticello, IA 52310

Offline Boogalou

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refinishing
« Reply #5 on: July 31, 2006, 08:50:24 AM »
I applied Duracoat to my CZ75 and was pleased with the results.  I sandblasted and parked the gun before application, and only applied the finish to the stripped frame & slide.


Offline justsomeguy

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« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2006, 01:01:16 AM »
I have been curious about this myself.  I was interested in Dura Coat or "Gun Coat" from Brownell's as a finish for a couple of 1911 slides that come with a sort of weird finish from the suppliers.

I see here that several members have sandblasted and parkerized the gun before hand.  Why, I wonder, would you do that?  What would be the downside to just using a 2 or 3 wheel on a buffer or even using 220 and/or 320 or finer wet or dry sandpaper for roughing up the metal, degreasing, and then applying the finish?

I would really like to try this out, but don't have access to a sandblasting rig at the moment.  Please let me know your opinions.

I was also interested in applying a couple coats of "gloss gunmetal blue" finish to the whole slide, and then using "matte black" only on the rounded top portion of the slide for a contrasting effect on the site plane.  Could masking tape be applied after a couple of coats of the gloss stuff were allowed to air dry, then the matte black on the top, then into the oven to cure the whole thing.  

What do you think?

Offline Virginia Jake

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refinishing
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2006, 05:36:51 AM »
"I see here that several members have sandblasted and parkerized the gun before hand. Why, I wonder, would you do that? What would be the downside to just using a 2 or 3 wheel on a buffer or even using 220 and/or 320 or finer wet or dry sandpaper for roughing up the metal, degreasing, and then applying the finish?"

I have read plenty about this process, and I finally had one of my own pistols done using this process.  (No I did not do it myself, however lots of people have!)

The short answer to your question is; fine grit or glass bead blasting, then parkerizing aids adhesion of the paint.  Some have called this process "adding tooth" to give the paint some additional area to cling to.  The parkerizing may have an additional benifit by protecting the base metal if the paint wears, scratches or is otherwise removed from the firearm part.  Let me see if I have a before and after picture.  I'll post them here if I can find them.

Yours,
Virginia Jake





Offline justsomeguy

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« Reply #8 on: October 04, 2006, 01:42:19 AM »
Well... Thanks for the answer and the pics.  The finish looks very good Jake...

Is that a matte black or high gloss.  Kinda hard to tell from the pics.  It is a nice uniform looking finish though.

Still, since I have one slide without a home right now that is about 30 years old, I think I will try the process without parkerizing and just roughing up the slide with some medium grade of sandpaper or heavy abrasive on a wheel.  I threw out my blueing tanks years ago because I wasn't doing much of that sort of thing and they get messy and dangerous just sitting around in the garage... though I do still have a 5 gallon pail of the Brownell's blueing salts and a gas pipe with adjustable flame thingie to heat them.

If it works, I have several more slides I can apply the stuff to.  If it fails to adhere properly I will buff it off and go with another solution I guess.  Brownell's has a "Moly Coat" finish as well which is not supposed to be as touchy and claims to adhere well to any metal.  I think I will call them and get an opinion from one of their "experts".

Maybe I'll break down and get a sandblasting attachment for my small compressor.  Hmmm... this could be a good excuse to get more tools... "Oh Honey...  I could save some money on refinishing these old guns if only I had..."

Parkerizing isn't really that hard to do either, but I would have to buy the tanks again and then there's the problem of disposing of the old mixtures when you're done with them like actual blueing solutions.  

Now where is my old submursable blueing thermometer...?

But no... I could buy several new Witness pistols for the money this is going to cost me if I have to get back into refinishing if the spray-on stuff doesn't work out.

Walt-Sherrill

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refinishing
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2006, 03:58:40 AM »
Check with the maker of the finish.  Otherwise you may have a mess on your hands.

Some of the bake-on finishes say that parkerizing is required, else the new finish doesn't stick.  I think Gun-Kote recommends parkerizing after a particular type of bead blasting is used.

You can end up with a pretty good finish using Brownell's Ox-Pho Blue (cold blue) finish.  Not as durable as a baked on finish, but easily touched up on front and backstraps, about the only place you'll notice wear/finish degradation.

Just get some bluing remover to get everything off, first, then polish and buff.  The smoother and cleaner the surface before you start (with bluing), the richer and deeper the blue when you've finished.

Here's one I did a couple of years ago using both Ox-Pho Blue and G96 Gun Creme.  I sold it a year or two ago.  The finish was almost indistinguishable from factory blue, but not as durable.  Easily touched up, using Ox-Pho Blue, however.


Offline Virginia Jake

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refinishing
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2006, 04:08:48 AM »
"Is that a matte black or high gloss. Kinda hard to tell from the pics. It is a nice uniform looking finish though."

That color is Duracoat "HK Black".  I would describe it as a flat to semi gloss black.  I took these "after" pictures on my kitchen table, early in the morning.  The lighting  was not good.  I basicly took the gun out of my holster, dropped the magazine, emptied the chamber and took the pictures.

You can just see the corner of one of the magazines.  I had them blasted with very fine beads, then parked.  My friend and finisher told me that he wants to Duracoat these for me next time he shoots "HK Black".

Yours,
Virginia Jake

Walt-Sherrill

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refinishing
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2006, 06:02:38 PM »
The finish on the gun was sort of a midpoint between gloss and matte -- simply because I didn't polish the gun highly before refinishing it.  (The gun is gone, and that's the only picture I can find.)

The gloss in a finish comes from surface preparation, not from the type of finish used.  If you polish it before finishing it, the finish will be glossy (or glossier).

Offline justsomeguy

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« Reply #12 on: October 06, 2006, 04:18:46 AM »
See... That's what I wondered about.  I am unfamiliar with the bake on stuff, but have done more than a few guns with hot blueing.  With blueing, preparation is everything!  You could have the best blueing setup in the world, the right mix, the most steady temperatures, but if you get lazy on the prep you will get a nicely colored ugly gun.

Given your assesment, I would assume the bake on stuff is not that thick and that like blueing or parkerizing, a decent polish must first be applied.  I still have a buffer and an assortment of professional compounds for prepping the slides I was thinking of, but no tanks anymore.  The cold blueing solution mentioned might be appealing to me, but I wanted to try the bake on stuff.  If it is really necessary to sand blast, I am less interested because I don't have that equipment either and this is a "project" for my own elucidation and well... fun!  Brownell's has other bake on finishes though which may be better suited to decent polishing but without the blasting or park-ing.  I just gotta get up early enough to call those guys.  I have developed into a real "night owl" and rarely go to bed before 6am or get up until 2 in the afternoon giving me a slim "window of opportunity" for calling them.

Maybe I'll just stay up and call 'em.

Walt-Sherrill

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refinishing
« Reply #13 on: October 06, 2006, 04:20:33 PM »
I don't think any of the bake-on finishes want a POLISHED finish.  Perhaps some will work on a polished finish, but I don't think any of them advise that you do that.  The finish, once applied, is matte -- never shiney.

Some of the finishes, like Gun-Coat,  require a (microscopicly) roughened surface for the finish to adhere.  If you polish it a lot, there's a good chance the finish will fail.

Offline justsomeguy

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« Reply #14 on: October 07, 2006, 01:03:49 AM »
That was my understanding about a certain "roughness" being desirable so the finish could adhere.  That was why I was even considering using a "hand finish" with a more or less rough aluminum oxide type coated paper which leaves sharper grooves at the microscopic (or at least macroscopic) level.

I will consult with the Brownell's guys before my attempt though and report back as to what they say and what I try.  I will post some pics of the project as it proceeds when I get into it.  Who knows...  it might work out.  They have some "baking laquer" stuff (which actually has a heat bonding epoxy in it) as well as "Alumahide" and "Moly Coat", some one of which may prove to be do-able.  If none of that seems feasable then I will probably go with the cold blue variation as it does produce a reasonable finish without too much hassle.

 

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