Author Topic: range practice routine  (Read 1167 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

akscz75b

  • Guest
range practice routine
« on: July 31, 2002, 06:57:37 PM »
Hi CZ people:
Since there are some very experienced shooters out there, and I am not, I wonder if someone would mention their typical routine, e.g. distances/ "double tap", etc at the range with their cz pistols. Or a recommended routine.
I would like to have fun, but improve and treat shooting not too frivolously.
I saw a post from someone that said he hit a silouette at 500 meters, now that was probably one for Guiness :)
Thanks

Walt-Sherrill

  • Guest
range practice routine
« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2002, 07:13:12 PM »
I'm pretty sure this isn't telling you want you want to hear, but hopefully this will save  you a lot of time and money... so, here goes:

If you want to improve rapidly, without learning a lot of bad stuff that you'll later have to unlearn, you ought to bite the bullet and get some personal instruction from a competent instructor.  

Its generally not that expensive, and you'll learn more in a couple of hours from a good instructor than you'll learn in  years of weekend shooting on your own.

Practice isn't worth a bleep unless you're practicing the RIGHT stuff.  And no amount of reading or "hearing about it" will take the place of doing the right things, having someone call attention to the fact that you're doing the wrong things, and seeing it done both ways.

If that's not an option, join IPSC or IDPA (IDPA being my preference), keep your mouth shut, except to ask questions, and listen a lot.  And participate.  You'd be surprise how quickly you can learn if you pay attention and listen.

(I gave a summary of a class that several of us from our IDPA IDPA club got in a class run for us by an IPSC internatinal master.  Very intersting and very worthwhile.   Its been six months since that class and I'm still trying to put all the things he taught us to use.  You can find the renview on the Tactic and Competition forum... Look for a message chain called "Training Recommendations.")

Shooting well is like anything else: there's far more to it than it seems.  Its just like golf: anybody can play a round of golf and anybody can shoot a gun, but...

Good luck.  And find that local instructor!  Then you'll know what to practice and how.

gmtx

  • Guest
range practice routine
« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2002, 07:41:19 PM »
Walts right.  I took a 2 hour class about a year ago and learned a whole lot!  I'll be returning this fall for the series.  Meanwhile heres a web sight that might give you a few pointers.

falco.kuci.uci.edu/~dany/...rills.html

A buddy of mine and I do the following.  One of us sets up a group of 5 or 6 paper plates in a row with one or more of them marked with an orange dot.  They can be anywhere from 1 foot to 2 yards apart.  The one that does the shooting stands in his ready position with his eyes closed.  Magazine is loaded with only enough rounds to match the number of total paper plates.  No peeking.  When the targets are set up and the range is deemed hot we tap him on the shoulder.  The object of the game is to hit each of the paper plates which isn't marked as quickly as you can.  Sort of an informal IDPA.  We play for $1 a point.  Lots of fun.  I won $10 bucks last month.  The wives think its good for us.  Take a class though.  Worth every penny.

akscz75b

  • Guest
range practice routine
« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2002, 07:52:25 PM »
Hello, thanks for your reply. I'll look for an instructor, but I assumed they were scarce. I live in Santa Cruz CA, which is could be called "Berkeley by the Sea", and I assumed none existed.
My friend suggested we go to something called "frontsight", except that I noticed it is a former Santa Cruz chiropractor, :rolleyes  hence not a real expert in my mind.
I'll ask around, the gun shop seemed to have real shooters and retired policemen working there.
Thanks.

HungWeiLo

  • Guest
range practice routine
« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2002, 08:48:52 PM »
Maybe the chiropractor was robbed often, hence having a lot of experience! ;)   I recall a story of a Rolex dealer who returned fire and thwarted 5 seperate armed robbery attempts.

I'm lucky in the fact that a state trooper firearms instructor offers lessons at a nearby range.  As of the 15th I'll finally be back on 1st shift, and will start spending some quality time at the range.

Meanwhile, here is what I typically do on my own.  I'm lucky enough to have a decent sized chunk of property with a large cliff face at the rear, hence my own private range.  The range is marked off in 5m increments.  I typically use a single target or two to practice transistions.  I shoot strong hand up to 20m, weak hand to 10m, and 2-handed to 30m, concentrating on 15-25m.  Usually I shoot strings (with 1-2 seconds between groups) of 5-10 shots in groups of 1 shot, 2 shots, and 3 shots.  On transistions, I shoot two at each target.

I use cardboard man sized targets, and use magic marker to circle each string and number it after I shoot it, and then use a legend in the corner to tell how I shot that group.  (1: weak hand, 5 shots, 10m)  I usually keep my last 5 targets or so, so I can compare and see hopeful improvements.  "Shoot N C" targets are great additions, in my opinion.  You can stick them on whatever target backing you are using, and the halo effect really lets you see where each round hits.

Just one idjits way to burn up brass. :)


Walt-Sherrill

  • Guest
range practice routine
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2002, 02:30:23 AM »
Quote
Quote:
      Hello, thanks for your reply. I'll look for an instructor, but I assumed they were scarce. I live in Santa Cruz CA, which is could be called "Berkeley by the Sea", and I assumed none existed.
Actually, they're really quite common.  Most everyone who is semi-pro (i.e., shoots in some formal competition, wins prizes or money, and competes at the higher levels) is certified to instruct or is DYING to tell others how to shoot better.  Check your local IDPA club, local IPSC club, or USPSA, etc.  Most pistol ranges and dealers know of instructors or can get you in touch with someone who KNOWs who to contact.

The biggest problem many will have -- and I've been there, done that -- is that when you learn on your own you can pick up bad habits that are hard to UNlearn later, when you start learning to do it right.

In my earlier message I mentioned a class that a bunch of us took from a professional shooter (IPSC International Master, once ranked 5 or 6 in the IPSC world).  About half of those who took his course have significantly improved their skills.  The other half appear to have wasted their time, as they simply can't overcome their old ways (read "bad habits") to use the new techniques.  Their old ways are so deeply ingrained they don't seem able to change.

Don't go there.  Don't get bad habits so ingrained that you can't learn new ones.

(Speaking of bad habits: another acquaintance took the concealed carry course for our state.  He basically failed the course because he couldn't shoot fast enough!  In NC you're required to do x number of shots in a relatively short period of time.  He has been so FOCUSED on accuracy in his shooting -- and he is VERY ACCURATE -- that he couldn't speed up his shots: every shot was slow and deliberate, and his target was a thing of beauty -- one relatively small hole.  But he continued to miss the time limits.  He had to shoot it three times before he passed. One wonders what he'd do if he were in a life/death situation and faced with making a shot...)

Regarding "Frontsight" and some of the other big name schools:  don't go there, YET.  These are great schools, but very expensive.  And they assume a certain level of proficiency.  If you're not thereyet, you're likely to have a less-than-positive experience.

A couple of my well-to-do shooting buddies have gone to these type of schools and came back almost demoralized.  Their basic skills were so basic that all the schools did for them was cause them to focus on their shortcomings; it made them feel like complete KLUTZES.  They're not Klutzes. They're pretty good amatuers who just need some refinements as they improve.

They would have been far better served by a few hours of private instruction (for $50 - $200, total) than spending $1000+ (counting travel, room and board, etc.) for several days of intensive training that simply eluded them or was way over their heads.

Going to these big-name schools can be good for an advanced amateur but may not be good for the beginner.  

I think a lot of folks go to these type of NAME places so that they can say, "I've been to Frontsight (or LFI, or Blackwater)."   Sadly, many of the ones I know who have gone don't demonstrate any real improvement in skills upon return.  But somehow they think they're better for it.  

I guess its a GUY THING.  Or (hopeful) improvement by association.

Another website that's interesting is:

www.bullseyepistol.com/

"BULLESYE" shooting isn't what I do, but the basics described at this site are solid fundamentals that can be applied to many types of shooting.  This is the single most valuable shooting site I've found in years of searching on the net.

Offline jrf

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 17
range practice routine
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2002, 05:03:49 AM »
Quote
Quote:

Practice isn't worth a bleep unless you're practicing the RIGHT stuff. And no amount of reading or "hearing about it" will take the place of doing the right things, having someone call attention to the fact that you're doing the wrong things, and seeing it done both ways.



What Walt said x10.

J.R. Farrar
www.jrfarrar.com

Offline PragueCzech

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 26
range practice routine
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2002, 04:06:57 PM »
Quote
Quote:
(Speaking of bad habits: another acquaintance took the concealed carry course for our state. He basically failed the course because he couldn't shoot fast enough! In NC you're required to do x number of shots in a relatively short period of time. He has been so FOCUSED on accuracy in his shooting -- and he is VERY ACCURATE -- that he couldn't speed up his shots: every shot was slow and deliberate, and his target was a thing of beauty -- one relatively small hole. But he continued to miss the time limits. He had to shoot it three times before he passed. One wonders what he'd do if he were in a life/death situation and faced with making a shot...)


Well, possibly he would take one shot - between the eyes? :)

But then you never know...

Thanks for the links guys!

Trebor1415

  • Guest
range practice routine
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2002, 12:53:58 AM »
Actually, the instruction available at "Front Sight" in Nevada is actually fairly well regarded. There are some detractors because the owner is, as you mention, a chiropractor, but he got his training from some of the best around (Gun Site, etc) and has assembled a good group of talented instructors. I took the free SMG course a couple years ago and was impressed with the level of instruction that was offered.

The only reason I haven't gone back yet for a 4 day pistol class is that I haven't had the money.

Trebor

Walt-Sherrill

  • Guest
range practice routine
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2002, 04:38:48 AM »
Front Sight *IS* a highly regarded school.

My point -- and I wasn't critical of this or similar courses -- was that it might be far too much for a relative "newbie" who hasn't had previous training.   Sort of like getting training in field surgery if you haven't even had first aid...

I've seen folks come back from these advanced schools feeling worse about their shooting skills rather than demonstrating improvements.


 

anything