Author Topic: CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance  (Read 36102 times)

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Offline quikdraw67

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #15 on: June 26, 2008, 04:03:07 PM »
got my mag bases and followers...now, I just need one more thing...

TIME TO SHOOT THE DARN THING!!!

IF the planets align I will get a 3-day weekend on the 4th, and I hope to make some noise of my own....

Offline JJB70

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #16 on: June 26, 2008, 05:24:58 PM »
Quote from: quikdraw67
got my mag bases and followers...now, I just need one more thing...  
 
  TIME TO SHOOT THE DARN THING!!!  
 
  IF the planets align I will get a 3-day weekend on the 4th, and I hope to make some noise of my own....
 


 

Quikdraw, the suspense is killing me!


Offline quikdraw67

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #17 on: June 26, 2008, 07:08:31 PM »
Quote from: JJB70
Quote from: quikdraw67
got my mag bases and followers...now, I just need one more thing...    
   
    TIME TO SHOOT THE DARN THING!!!    
   
    IF the planets align I will get a 3-day weekend on the 4th, and I hope to make some noise of my own....
   


   

Quikdraw, the suspense is killing me!  

 

killing YOU??

Work is the curse of the Sportsman

Offline Radom

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #18 on: June 27, 2008, 08:35:55 AM »
Funny, I thought chiggers or deer ticks were the curse of the Sportsman!

The artist formerly known as FEG...

Offline armoredman

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #19 on: June 27, 2008, 09:31:40 PM »
I still want one....

Offline crazy horse

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #20 on: June 30, 2008, 02:11:44 AM »
I ordered 3 kits from centerfire last week they came in a timely fashion and the mags looked great. The pouches on the other hand were beat. Just ordered up my "compliance" mag parts from TGI as well.
I cannot wait to get these rifles.

Offline crazy horse

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #21 on: June 30, 2008, 02:51:53 AM »
Quote from: FEG
I was a little concerned that I did not know for certain which parts on my vz-58 were made in the U.S. for the purposes of 18 USC 922(r) compliance. I got a   hold of Mike Eagleshield, and here is our e-mail exchange:  
 
 
    It looks like the 5 U.S. made parts are:  
   
    1.Magazine follower (polymer)  
   
    2.Magazine base (polymer)  
   
    3.Trigger (polymer)  
   
    4.Sear (steel)  
   
    5.Disconnector (steel).  
   
    You were correct in that the two magazine parts were in order to make it     comply with 922R and be importable.  
   
    Also in order to comply with 922R it must contain no more than 10 imported     parts and they are:  
   
    1.Receiver  
   
    2.Barrel  
   
    3.Barrel extension  
   
    4.Bolt  
   
    5.Bolt carrier  
   
    6.Gas piston  
   
    7.Buttstock (fixed or folding)  
   
    8.Pistol grip  
   
    9.Handguard (both peices considered one)  
   
    10.Magazine body  
   
Quote
      -----Original Message-----      
      From: DELETED      
      Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:10 PM      
      To: DELETED      
      Subject: vz-58 Tactical Sporter, 18 USC 922(r) Compliance      
     
   
     
      Dear Mr. Eagleshield:    
     
      We spoke earlier today on the telephone. I am writing to inquire as to which parts on the vz-58 Tactical Sporter, as imported by CZ-USA, are made in the       United States in order to comply with 18 U.S.C. 922(r). As you may recall, my concern was that the magazine floorplate and magazine follower were two of       the necessary five on this model.    
     
      Thank you for your assistance in this matter.    
     
      Sincerely,      
      DELETED      
     
     
     
   
 

Sir, You have done some very valuable research on the VZ58 thank you very much.
I have a few questions for you guys.
1. are the plastic mag followers reliable?
2. What are the chances that we will see a parts/mags shortage in the near future?
3.What ammo does your VZ like the best. I bought 2000 rnds of wolf HP ammo (hope it feeds HP's)
4. I have read somewhere that the VZ58 was designed to fire steel cased ammo. True/False?
Thanks
Crazy Horse


Offline Radom

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #22 on: June 30, 2008, 06:47:45 AM »
Quote from: crazy horse
Quote from: FEG
I was a little concerned that I did not know for certain which parts on my vz-58 were made in the U.S. for the purposes of 18 USC 922(r) compliance. I got     a hold of Mike Eagleshield, and here is our e-mail exchange:    
   
   
      It looks like the 5 U.S. made parts are:    
     
      1.Magazine follower (polymer)    
     
      2.Magazine base (polymer)    
     
      3.Trigger (polymer)    
     
      4.Sear (steel)    
     
      5.Disconnector (steel).    
     
      You were correct in that the two magazine parts were in order to make it       comply with 922R and be importable.    
     
      Also in order to comply with 922R it must contain no more than 10 imported       parts and they are:    
     
      1.Receiver    
     
      2.Barrel    
     
      3.Barrel extension    
     
      4.Bolt    
     
      5.Bolt carrier    
     
      6.Gas piston    
     
      7.Buttstock (fixed or folding)    
     
      8.Pistol grip    
     
      9.Handguard (both peices considered one)    
     
      10.Magazine body    
     
Quote
        -----Original Message-----        
        From: DELETED        
        Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 1:10 PM        
        To: DELETED        
        Subject: vz-58 Tactical Sporter, 18 USC 922(r) Compliance        
       
     
       
        Dear Mr. Eagleshield:      
       
        We spoke earlier today on the telephone. I am writing to inquire as to which parts on the vz-58 Tactical Sporter, as imported by CZ-USA, are made in         the United States in order to comply with 18 U.S.C. 922(r). As you may recall, my concern was that the magazine floorplate and magazine follower were         two of the necessary five on this model.      
       
        Thank you for your assistance in this matter.      
       
        Sincerely,        
        DELETED        
       
       
       
     
   

Sir, You have done some very valuable research on the VZ58 thank you very much.  
  I have a few questions for you guys.  
  1. are the plastic mag followers reliable?  
  2. What are the chances that we will see a parts/mags shortage in the near future?  
  3.What ammo does your VZ like the best. I bought 2000 rnds of wolf HP ammo (hope it feeds HP's)  
  4. I have read somewhere that the VZ58 was designed to fire steel cased ammo. True/False?  
  Thanks  
  Crazy Horse

 

1.  From what I can tell, the U.S. manufactured followers are reliable enough.  They do not have a clip or retaining ridge for the magazine spring like a mil surp follower.  In theory, this would make them marginally less reliable.  (That said, I own tons of magazines for other guns that do not have this feature, either.)  I recommended the replacement piston more for reasons of cost.

2.  At present there are only X mil surp magazines in the U.S.   I have no idea how large or small the number X really is.  It is pretty clear to me that some people started hoarding these about 3 months ago.  The retailers selling them in the $10-$15 range seem to be running low.  I have ten (10), and I wish I had at least six (6) more.  If demand becomes high enough, you may see aftermarket magazines at some point.  An adaptor to allow the double-stack rifles to use the ten (10) round single-stack magazines would be awesome.  The U.S. manufactured single-stack magazines are really cheap.

3.  Barnaul 123 gr FMJ.  (I will post more in a second post, below.)  The CZ-USA rifles, or any rifle built on a Czech receiver, will feed the Russian commercial HPs.  (Note: some of the rifles that are home built on the U.S. manufactured Ohio Rapid Fire receivers do not, as many of the ORF receivers lack the integral ramp.)

4.  The vz-58 is definitely designed to fire steel-cased ammunition.  However, the armed forces of the former CSSR (and now the Czech and Slovak Republics) also tended to use a lot of brass-cased ammunition.  For example, I have purchased Sellier & Bellot 7.62x39 with both brass and steel cases.  The brass was mil surp, and the steel was commercial production!  Go figure...


More on ammunition to come...

The artist formerly known as FEG...

Offline Radom

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #23 on: June 30, 2008, 07:14:23 AM »
Thus far, I have not had the opportunity to test any brass-cased ammunition. I used to reload 7.62x39, but I ended up selling my stuff to armoredman. (Long story...)

Steel-cased accuracy has been roughly as follows:

1. Barnaul 123 gr FMJ (Old and new packaging)
2. Barnaul 123 gr HP (Old and new packaging)
3. Sellier & Bellot 123 gr FMJ (Green packaging, circa 2000)
4. Golden Tiger 123 gr FMJ
5. Barnaul 123 gr SP (New packaging only)
6. Wolf 154 gr SP (Tula production, black label, circa 2003)
7. Wolf 123 gr FMJ (Tula production, black label, circa 2003)
8. Brown Bear 123 gr FMJ (Novosibirsk production, circa 2004)
9. Silver Bear 123 gr HP (Ulyanovsk production, circa 2003)
10. Wolf Military Classic 123 gr FMJ (Ulyanovsk production)

You have to realize that in some cases, I only have only tested five boxes (100 cartridges), as it was all I had. In general, the brands that tended to be the most accurate in my SKSs and AKs have been the most accurate in the vz-58. There is one exception: usually S&B does the very best, and I was surprised that the Czech ammuniton didn't come in first with a Czech rifle.

The following is from an old post of mine on Russian 7.62x39. Unfortunately, it does not cover S&B, Romanian, or Balkan loadings, but I thought it would bear repeating...


I have learned the hard way that you can't go by "brand" name on the Russian ammunition; you have to go by the "real" manufacturer. A lot of Russian ammunition is actually subcontracted by some of the lesser known arsenals.

Manufacturer Information = http://www.ak-47.us/AK47_Factories.php#yu

The best of the Russian is JSC Barnaul. This is marketed as Barnaul (!), Brown Bear, and Silver Bear. Not all Brown Bear and Silver Bear is made by Barnaul, however. The "Bears" were a consortium to streamline importation and marketing of several different arsenals. On the bright side, all ammunition branded as Barnaul seems to be made by JSC Barnaul. You can tell by the "JSC" headstamp. Barnaul is in Eastern Siberia. Personally, I try to stick to Barnaul and Sellier & Bellot.

The next best manufacturer is probably Novosibirsk/LVE. You used to be able to buy true mil surp marked "LVE" on the brown paper wrapper ("low voltage electrical" manufacturer). Novosibirsk makes the majority (but not all) Brown Bear. Some Brown Bear is also manufactured by Klimovsk, Ulyanovsk, and JSC Barnaul. Novosibirsk/LVE also makes some Silver Bear. In past years, Novosibirsk did import some ammuniton in a very basic commercial packaging, usually marked conspicuously with "LVE." Novosibirsk is in SW Siberia.

Vympel makes all Golden Tiger, and all Vympel is GT to my knowledge. This was a new facility (1976) set up to make 5.45x39 and other industrial and chemical products. This is really good mil spec ammunition. I would rank it higher, but it hasn't been around the U.S. that long. Vympel is the only major arsenal in the former Soviet Far East.

Tula Cartridge Works makes the majority of the Wolf branded ammuniton. At one time, TCW made all of it. The best Tula is just as good as, perhaps even better than, Novosibirsk. Unfortunately, there has been a lot more TCW ammunition imported than anything else, so the quality has varied over time. Tula is in European Russia.

Ulyanovsk is the absolute bottom of the barrel. The original Ulyanovsk loads to be imported came in blue and white packaging. I suspect this was old mil surp ammo repackaged as commercial, because it really, really sucked. These loads were horribly inconsistent, and I suspect some of the ammo had been stored for a lonnnnggggg time. Ulyanovsk is also a subcontractor for the Brown Bear line and the Wolf Military Classic line. Ulyanovsk is also in European Russia.

There are some other minor players like Klimovsk, but I can't pretend to have shot enough of their ammunition to have a legitimate basis for an opinion.
The artist formerly known as FEG...

Offline crazy horse

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #24 on: July 01, 2008, 01:46:54 AM »

Great info sir. Thank you so much.


Offline quikdraw67

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #25 on: July 03, 2008, 05:41:44 PM »



 FEG is a great help of CZ info........as he said, you're "One of Us"

Offline quikdraw67

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #26 on: July 03, 2008, 05:46:22 PM »
Quote from: JJB70
Quote from: quikdraw67
got my mag bases and followers...now, I just need one more thing...    
   
    TIME TO SHOOT THE DARN THING!!!    
   
    IF the planets align I will get a 3-day weekend on the 4th, and I hope to make some noise of my own....
   


   

Quikdraw, the suspense is killing me!  

 

Killing YOU...guess who gets to work a 1/2 day Saturday 07-05-08...plus the forecast for the weekend here in NE PA is showers/downpours

I am NOT a happy camper

Offline JJB70

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #27 on: July 08, 2008, 01:57:49 PM »
Qwikdraw:  Did the weather hold up for you or was it crummy out there?

FEG:  Nice list on the ammo.  I shot most of those through my VZ and encountered no difficulties.  I have not used the "non-Bear" Barnaul, the 154gr Wolf, nor the Sellier & Bellot.  I have pretty much found the Wolf, Silver/Brown Bear/Golden Tiger to be fairly similar in results (in FMJ, SP, HP)--much as you show in your list.

I have a question for you (or for anyone else for that matter).  I have seen a Chinese (Taiwan I assume) manufactured ammo brand for sale at a local gun store.  Unfortunately I can't remember the name of on the box, but I haven't tried it because it is twice as expensive as Wolf, Brown Bear, Golden Tiger, etc.  Have you tried any or have you heard anything?  I can't imagine it is worth double the cost, but I am curious if you know anything.

Offline Radom

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #28 on: July 08, 2008, 02:49:03 PM »
Quote from: JJB70
Qwikdraw: Did the weather hold up for you or was it crummy out there?  
 
  FEG: Nice list on the ammo. I shot most of those through my VZ and encountered no difficulties. I have not used the "non-Bear" Barnaul, the 154gr   Wolf, nor the Sellier & Bellot. I have pretty much found the Wolf, Silver/Brown Bear/Golden Tiger to be fairly similar in results (in FMJ, SP, HP)--much   as you show in your list.  
 
  I have a question for you (or for anyone else for that matter). I have seen a Chinese (Taiwan I assume) manufactured ammo brand for sale at a local gun   store. Unfortunately I can't remember the name of on the box, but I haven't tried it because it is twice as expensive as Wolf, Brown Bear, Golden   Tiger, etc. Have you tried any or have you heard anything? I can't imagine it is worth double the cost, but I am curious if you know anything.
 

Norinco came in silver, yellow, and red boxes.  There also used to be a brand called something like "Asian Sporting Industries."  (It had initials on green packaging.)  There is also Chinese ammo marketed as "China Sports," but most of those loads also have the Norinco star logo.   I'm sure I missed a bunch, but those are the Chinese "brands" I remember from the 1990s.
The artist formerly known as FEG...

Offline quikdraw67

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CZ-USA vz-58 Sporters and 18 USC 922(r) Compliance
« Reply #29 on: July 08, 2008, 04:25:55 PM »
JJB70 - Weather and work schedule did not let me get to the range...I took this Friday off (7-11), so the weather looks good...I plan to shoot the VZ58 as well as the CZ75 P01...

I'll let you know how I made out

 

anything