Author Topic: 9mm 147 grain bullets  (Read 4021 times)

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chopper

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9mm 147 grain bullets
« on: December 15, 2008, 08:38:17 PM »
Howdy,
While reading up on bullet ballistics for the 9mm Luger, I came upon an article that said using 147 grain bullets in factory ammo or reloads was not a good idea.  It stated the 147 grain bullets were a fad and are not very reliable feeding.  The article went on to recommend certain pistols that are OK to use the 147 grain bullets in and CZ pistols is one of them!

I was just curious if anyone else has come across this report, what others think of 147 grain bullets and if anyone is having trouble with said cartridges.

Thanks,
Bruce


Offline ReloaderFred

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2008, 09:15:36 PM »
I've shot a lot of 147 grain bullets through several different brands of 9mm pistols and never had one fail to feed or fail to eject.  A lot of law enforcement agencies that carry the 9mm use it for their duty round, which must be reliable.

I've never seen the report you reference, but it's like anything else, it's the opinion of the author.

Hope this helps.

Fred
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs

Offline Wobbly

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #2 on: December 16, 2008, 12:36:05 PM »
IMHO the statement would need to be clarified to say which 147gr or all 147gr, or what the issue was.

• If discussing particular bullets, then the nose design has a lot to do with the OAL.... which would directly effect the ability to feed well. So are we discussing FP or RN? Jacketed or lead? At least for me, I'm using 147gr Berry plated bullets with starting loads. I am able to load these out at the SAAMI max length of 1.169" and therefore they feed like Winchester "white box". Other bullets might require a shorter OAL and thereby cause feeding issues common to the length.

• Issues could be raised simply by a shorter OAL since a deeper seated and heavier bullet leaves minimal room inside the case for powder, thereby necessitating low power loads with some powders. Lower power then would result in less energy to operate the mechanism. That of course can be easily remedied with lower force recoil springs if the issue is recognized in advance. The bottom line then is to not trust your self defense to bullets you haven't tried a lot.

• If discussing all 147gr, then the issue might be more of a rifling issue. It seems that the rifling in most 9mm are optimized for 125gr, so the heavier bullet might have flight issues.

 :-\
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Offline 96Skyline

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2008, 09:52:24 PM »
Have 2 CZ 75s that I got in the early 90s and I've shot probably 1000s of 147gr rounds thought both of them.  So looking at over well over 10 years of shooting these rounds. 

Now I really like the Hornady XTL Jacketed Hollowpoint 147gr, Remigton Golden Saber Jacketed Hollowpoint 147gr, CCI Golden DOT Hollowpoint 147gr, and Federal Hydra-Shock Jacketed Hollowpoint 147gr are just a few rounds I use for defensive rounds and they're fun as  hell to shoot at a watermellow. - LOL

For regular every day range/target shooting I use reload, but I alway keep a make of one of above in my nightstand along with a gun (that also has one of those magazines in it ;) )!

Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2008, 04:24:46 AM »
As mentioned in an earlier post, the only issue is Over All Length of the cartridge.  9mm brass is tapered as it goes to the base, and as the bullet is seated deeper, you may run into the problem of having the base of the bullet bulging the case and not being able to chamber.  Beveled bases help some.

Offline 96Skyline

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2008, 09:42:57 AM »
Let's get all technical here.  I have NOT had any problem with any kind or type of 147gr rounds shoot through my CZ 75 (and any of my other 9mms).  Does that answer your question, or do I need to get all specific and meassure things out, observe the distanctance of the ejected shell casing, make sure it had plent of clearance prior to ejection (after firing). 

Come on now.  People have veryified that they have had not problems with the ammo that the originator of this thread question.  So can we simply leave it that? Good Greef!

Offline hitnmiss

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2008, 07:13:32 AM »
i have used golden sabers and the magtech 9mm bullets.  all seems to fire well in my shadow.  but have not really fired a lot since i just got my shadow couple of weeks ago.

i would appreciate any recomendation for defensive bullets and range bullets.  i have not used reloads yet on my new gun.

Offline shooterdude

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2008, 10:46:11 AM »
For self defense use lighter faster bullets.  Since the 9mm vs. .45 argument is never ending everyone should do their own research and draw their own conclusions.  The US military did just that and shifted to 9mm because they discovered that there really is no difference in performance between a slow heavy bullet and a fast light bullet NOT because 9mm is better than .45.

Here is an article that speaks eloquently to this issue:

9mm vs .45
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chopper

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2008, 01:50:57 PM »
Excellent article shooterdude…I came across that very article while trying to decide which firearm to carry as my primary conceal carry weapon.  I chose the 9mm, 2075 BD RAMI over the sub-compacts available in Glock, Springfield, Smith & Wesson, Kahr, Taurus, Walther, H&K and Sig.  I do a lot of research before I spend my wife’s hard earned money and just happened on to the CZ-Ceska website where I found the BD RAMI.  Lucky for me since it is not listed on the CZ-USA website.

CZ-Ceska

This pistol was exactly what I was looking for.

Anyway, the great debate after choosing 9mm is which bullet to reload.  I haven’t had a single FTF or FTE with anything that’s been feed through my RAMI.  That includes mixing up different brands and weights in the same magazine.

Continuing my research after the original post on this thread, I have decided to reload 124gr bullets.  Not so much for reliability issues but because the 1:9.7 twist rate on the barrel is more suited for that weight.

After more research, and price comparisons, I chose the Remington 124gr, Golden Saber HP’s for my practice and defensive cartridge.  I believe in practicing with what you carry.

There’s another thread I started about the Remington bullets…more research.  Once I get some loads worked up and tested, I’ll post the results on the other thread.

I figure the gun to be broken in now and it has always been 100% reliable.  I chose wisely but hope I never have to use it for its intended purpose.

Bruce

hitnmiss…my view on defensive as to range bullets is, they should be the same.  The last thing I would want to have to think about during a stressful situation is point of impact and felt recoil.  But as ReloaderFred said, “it’s like anything else, it’s the opinion of the author.”

jameslovesjammie…I’m happy for you and am sure she loves you too.  Especially when your thread talks about over all length, things being seated deeper and bulging at the base. lol

96Skyline….I think you just confirmed what the article mentioned on the original post said…CZ makes quality firearms.  I’m sure everyone in this entire forum concurs!

rfwobbly1…Great information.  I will keep things in mind as I develop my loads.  BTW what does IMHO mean?  This is the first forum I’ve ever joined.

Thanks for the input everyone, this is pretty cool!
Bruce



Offline Wobbly

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2008, 03:07:37 PM »
Quote
rfwobbly1…Great information.  I will keep things in mind as I develop my loads.  BTW what does IMHO mean?  This is the first forum I’ve ever joined.

Welcome aboard.

IMHO... In my humble opinion

Fill out your profile a little more, especially as to state since that can help us help you.

In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Offline twoguns

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2008, 03:41:25 PM »
Howdy folks,

Since suggestions for a carry round have been requested, I will offer mine as well.  I have used the 124 gr +P Rem GS in the past and have confidence it would perform well if needed.  But my first choice in a carry round is the Speer 124gr standard or +P GDHP round.  That is what is usually loaded into my 9mm mags.

My agency was lucky enough to hire a retired HP White ballistican who found he was bored with retirement.  He lived in the same city as our National Firearms Unit and they grabbed him in a heartbeat, as he became our first true "ammo expert".  Evaluating and selecting our duty ammo was a large part of Mr. Jim's job duties.

He selected the Speer 124 gr GDHP in both standard and +P loadings are our primary duty rounds.  When we had some issued pistols that did not want to feed either bullet reliably, he then chose the Rem 124 gr +P GS as an alternate duty round.  

As a long time federal firearms instructor for various agenies, I have developed some contacts with instructors in other agencies/departments.  We are able to share information off the record so to speak.  

I can tell you that the Speer GDHP has a very strong street reputation among LEAs for reliable performance in real world situations.  Because of the possibility of both criminal and civil actions resulting from law enforcement shootings, it is rare to see any information about what rounds were used and how they performed.  So this information is largely passed along to other instructors "quietly" for those reasons.

My first choice in both a carry round and projectile to reload for my practice loads is the Speer 124 gr GDHP.  That said, I do have some Rem 124 gr GS projectiles to load if desired too.

I prefer the 124 gr projectiles for both duty and practice loads, as I see them as a good compromise between the various 115 gr and 147 gr options.  That coupled with the fact many current production 9mm weapons were designed to be POA-POI with a 124 gr projectile, makes them to the best choice for me.

But I don't throw stones at anyone who favors a different weight or brand in their choice of duty rounds either.  Everyone needs to find the round that they have the most confidence in that works reliably in their pistol - whatever that combination seems to be for them.

twoguns

bdurham

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Re: 9mm 147 grain bullets
« Reply #11 on: December 30, 2008, 07:11:38 PM »
I have reloaded both and they both shoot fine. I think 147'S might have too much penetation. Just a thought may not be fact.