Author Topic: 7.62x25 Rifle  (Read 26328 times)

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Offline NickySantoro

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #15 on: January 07, 2010, 02:48:07 PM »
I tired emailing MCACE twice about their chamber inserts but still no reply. Does anyone know about their current status.

I inquired also and have had no response. Perhaps they are closed for a vacation. They've been most responsive to my emails in the past.

Offline niembo

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #16 on: January 07, 2010, 08:37:17 PM »
Talked to MCA sports in Anchorage by phone yesterday, and the owner said he has a .303 British to .30 Mauser (7.62x25) adapter in stock. He said he has the capability of making over 1,000 combinations of calibers for rifle to pistol round adapters. My check is in the mail. I'll repost once I receive mine and test fire.


Offline vonfilm

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2010, 11:19:33 AM »
Did they say if it would work for 7.62X25 Tokarev?
CZ 52, CZ50, BRNO Model 1, Slavia 622, Slavia 624

Offline niembo

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #18 on: January 08, 2010, 11:48:03 AM »
Hope it will. I provided the spec's for a reamer in .30 Mauser and several Tok's from different manuf. to a machine shop, and they felt the tolerences were good. Of courese the machinist is not a gun guy, so the ultimate test will happen once I get the adapter.

Earlier posts indicated .30 mauser worked in a CZ52, but the reverse is not recommended. We'll see.

Offline NickySantoro

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #19 on: January 08, 2010, 12:00:10 PM »

Earlier posts indicated .30 mauser worked in a CZ52, but the reverse is not recommended.

I think that is because the 7.62 TOK is too hot for some of the guns like the Broomhandle which are chambered in .30 mauser. I don't believe it is due to cartridge dimensions.

Offline vonfilm

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2010, 01:04:05 PM »
Niembo,
What kind of rifle are you planning to use your insert in? Did MCACE indicate they could make up different inserts upon request? I would like to have both a 7.62X25/30:06 and a 7.62X25/.308 Norma Magnum. These of course are both for strong bolt actions(1909 Argentine & Win Mod 70) that should easily handle a 7.62X25 in a insert.

I would think that 7.72X25 would be a much more popular insert than .30 Mauser or .30 Luger.

I wonder what kind of velocity  could be achieved in a 22-24" barrel ?
CZ 52, CZ50, BRNO Model 1, Slavia 622, Slavia 624

Offline czechollector

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2010, 02:00:57 PM »
How about an adapter for 7.62x39 to 7.62x25 to use in the Cz 527 carbine??  ;D


Offline niembo

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #22 on: January 08, 2010, 04:10:43 PM »
Vonfilm
I'm going to try and use the TOK in my sporterized bolt action Enfield.

Vonfilm/czechollector
You'll have to talk to MCACE about what you're looking for. I only had a 3 min conversation with the owner, and I was so pleased he had what I was looking for that I didn't ask about custom work or other calibers.   

Offline vonfilm

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #23 on: January 08, 2010, 07:36:14 PM »
I also called MCA Sports today and left a message. A little while later the owner Ace Dube called and talked with me a little while about his .30 Mauser/.30:06 chamber adapter. He says that he uses 7.62 Tokarev ammunition to test them. He recommended that I get the less expensive blue steel(vs Stainless) for only $20.00 postpaid. He says with a fired cartridge to work with he can make chamber adapters for just about any reasonable combination. Ace is a very nice guy. I just got back from dropping a check in the mail to him. I will report back my experience with it when it arrives.

Another chamber adapter that I am interested in is the Hammond Game Getter. They sell rifle cartridges  modified to accept an offset .22 Long Rifle blank for nailguns that fires a buckshot at air gun velocities for plinking and small game.

http://www3.telus.net/gamegetter/operate1.html
CZ 52, CZ50, BRNO Model 1, Slavia 622, Slavia 624

Offline Sheik Yerbouti

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2010, 08:22:12 AM »
Quote
I think that is because the 7.62 TOK is too hot for some of the guns like the Broomhandle which are chambered in .30 mauser. I don't believe it is due to cartridge dimensions.
Not really.  They are essentially the same round.  There are some minor dimensional differences but all "official" sources show them to be completely interchangeable. 

I shoot Romanian Tok ammo out of my broomhandle all the time.  The velocities are the same as Prvi 30 Mauser, hence the mean pressure curve is the same.  You can't get the same or lower velocities with a higher mean pressure curve. My 30 Mauser handloads are actually slightly faster.

Now, there have been some surplussed Tok ammo that is hotter than spec.  Turns out, that was the reason it was surplussed. This is the legendary "subgun" ammo, which was never specifically manufactured for use in subguns, but was simply overloaded.  So, the caveat is, if you shoot Tok ammo, make sure you know what it it.  If it will destroy a C96, it will surely destroy a CZ52.

Always treat surplus ammo with respect.  Understand the reason it was surplussed.  Former Eastern Block countries are just as liable to surplus out of spec ammo as they are in spec ammo.
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Offline niembo

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2010, 05:20:30 PM »
Received my adapter from MCA today. I grabbed an assortment of milsup TOK and test fired 12 rounds through my .303 Enfield. AT 30 feet the accuracy was decent, and the FMJ went through 5 2x10 pressure treated pine, with a couple of the CZECH  rounds making it through 6 boards. Almost no recoil or muzzle flash. The case expansion on the Tok required the spent shell to be tapped  out of the adapter with a thin rod after each shot, something that has not been necessaty with .32 ACP. 

Overall, a huge success! Now to find somplace where I can try at 100 yds or better with the CZ and the rifle.

Offline vonfilm

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #26 on: March 01, 2010, 04:33:53 PM »
Yesterday I tried out my MCACE adapter in my 30/06 09 Argentine Mauser. I was shooting at 40 yards with a gusty 20 mile an hour wind. I could not get the Sellier and Bellot 7.62 X25 ammo to group. I shot about 30 round and some were dead center and some were way off. A few of the cartridges cracked open like an overstuffed hot dog. Most of the fired cases came out of the adapter on their own; a few I had to push out with a stick. I was using a 2X-7X Nikon Monarch scope.

I am not yet ready to blame my chamber adapter since I am never been that  impressed with Sellier and Bellot ammo. What kind of accuracy have others gotten with it? Who else makes non corrosive ammo in 7.62 Tokarev? Maybe I will get some Starline .30 Mauser brass and start from scratch.

I might have to get some 30 Tok loading dies and try pulling the bullets and replacing the powder charge with a weighed charge of different powder. I also have some of the 100 grain Speer .308 Plinker bullets.

Yesterday I also tried out my Hammond Game Getter, a modified 30/06 cartridge firing swaged .311 round lead balls propelled by a .22LR nail gun blank. This worked better, grouping around 4" at 40 yards. I think 25 yards would be the best range for this.
CZ 52, CZ50, BRNO Model 1, Slavia 622, Slavia 624

Offline skucera

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2010, 11:28:53 PM »
A general rule of thumb is "the lower the velocity, the higher the twist" to maintain gyroscopic balance.  Your rifle shoots bullets much faster than the CZ 52 pistol and has a twist rate suitable for those speedy rifle bullets.  Shooting the lower velocity 7.62 x 25 bullet should require a faster twist to maintain a true, repeatable trajectory.  The pistol bullets perhaps just aren't twisted rapidly enough by your rifle barrel, so they start to tumble in air, opening up the group.  The tumbling may not have resulted in keyholed targets, but a change of even a few degrees in pitch or yaw is enough to change the course of a bullet in flight.

Scott

Offline vonfilm

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #28 on: March 03, 2010, 11:17:41 AM »
What is the rate of twist in a CZ52 barrel?
CZ 52, CZ50, BRNO Model 1, Slavia 622, Slavia 624

Offline skucera

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Re: 7.62x25 Rifle
« Reply #29 on: March 04, 2010, 12:59:51 AM »
I don't know.  I've never seen a spec published on the CZ 52's 7.62 rate of twist.  I remember reading that the .30 Mauser cartridge specified a rate of twist of 1:250 mm (1:10 in.), but I don't know if CZ or Tula designers stuck to that rate of twist when they designed the CZ 52 or the TT-33, respectively, but a Google search didn't find any links I could point you to to back my memory up.

Scott