Author Topic: Omega Trigger Job?  (Read 5286 times)

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Offline Sam1911

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Omega Trigger Job?
« on: May 08, 2010, 08:45:17 PM »
Hi!

I picked up a new 75B Omega last week and, while the pistol seems wonderful in many ways, the trigger is not.  The SA pull is light, certainly, but "light" is the lesser characteristic of a good trigger, and "crisp" it is NOT.

The DA pull really can't be described in terms anyone should use in polite company.

Today I spent part of this afternoon learning to detail strip the Omega trigger system.  Really pretty simple, actually.

After polishing everything that rubs and very carefully truing the sear and hammer engagement faces with fine honing stones, I've managed to reduce the snags of the SA pull, probably by half.  However, it is still a LOOoooong, creepy pull.  Once the sear starts to move I measure approximately another 3/16" of trigger movement as the sear drags up the face of the hammer hook.  There doesn't seem to be any camming -- as far as my eyes can see the engagement is dead neutral.

It would appear (to my layman's view) that the hammer hook could be lowered by 1/2 to 2/3 and still be safe -- but I'm not going to ruin my parts (or endanger myself) by trying that.  

I've searched here and can't find any descriptions of a home brew trigger job for the Omegas so I assume that little can be done.

As for the DA pull, wow.  That's bad.  I shoot a S&W N-frame a lot in competition and I thought I was pretty competent with a DA pull.  This is unmanageable.  Stagey and HEAVY.  Got to be considerably over 15 lbs.  I know the conventional wisdom would indicate a lighter mainspring, but I hate to do that for reliability and because I don't want the SA pull any lighter at all.

Any thoughts?  Is Angus working on these at all?

(By the way... I went with the Omega system 90% in order to get the upswept beavertail.  It feels like a night-and-day difference, compared to the standard 75B frame.)

Thanks!
-- Sam

"...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)
-D. Stanhope

Offline Walkure

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2010, 01:47:25 PM »
I know the conventional wisdom would indicate a lighter mainspring, but I hate to do that for reliability and because I don't want the SA pull any lighter at all.

Mainsprings don't have a particularly profound effect on SA pull weight. Never to the degree with which the same change will affect DA pull weight. I've never had problems running a 15#; I found a 13# mainspring to be perfectly reliable with "normal" loads, but it would be 95% reliable with special small-rifle-primer loads.


The biggest problem with the Omega in terms of cleaning up overal trigger motion is that you are inhernetly stuck with long trigger travel and long-ish reset due to the placement of the FPB lifter in between the trigger bar and sear.

Offline Guitarguy

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2010, 07:45:01 PM »
Hi, I am a new CZ 75B Omega owner ! Yippie!!  Just Kidding.
I completely agree with your description of the Omega trigger.
Could you possibly outline the steps to free the pins so I can remove my trigger and hammer assembly?
I went to the range yesterday and fired four rounds before the trigger would not reset unless I pushed it forward with my finger.
I changed magazines. (it was a Mec-Gar with the blue follower) tried the CZ factory mag. 10 rounds just fine. Most accurate gun I have ever fired. Shoots like my 1911.
OOOOpps. Wait, now it won't reset at all. Moving the trigger back and forth moves that hammer back and forth in sync. Released the mag, wiggled the trigger and it reset. Fired the last 5 shots in this manner.
I love this gun but the trigger is sadly mis-behaving.
SA trigger pull is light but gritty and double action is not for the weak at all.
 Hoping that I can detail strip and find out where it is hanging up. I can see there must be a pattern of "push this; hold this" to release the pins. antsuggestions would be appreciated otherwisw it goes back to CZ.   HELP!
SP-01, 75B SA, 85 Combat, L-120, C100, w/ all interior polish and Full CGW treatment, Sig P229R.

Offline Sam1911

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2010, 09:51:50 PM »
The disassembly is actually easier than you'd think.

When you've got the slide off, look into the top of the gun.  You'll see the ejector sticking up and just above the mag well.

Press the ejector down (it will move easily about 1/8") while you pop out the safety lever. 

With the safety lever gone, you can wiggle the ejector up and down while you pull it straight forward.  It will pop out.  It's just an oddly shaped stamped piece of sheet metal.

With the ejector removed, lift/rotate the "L" shaped lever that is pinned to the hammer up/back as far as it will go (straight up) and the remaining pin will come out easily.  The only pressure on it is from the small pair of coil springs below the sear and FPB lifter. 

As for your failure to reset problems...sounds like a warranty issue to me.  Sorry I can't picture what simple thing might cause that.
-- Sam

"...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)
-D. Stanhope

Offline Guitarguy

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2010, 03:39:05 PM »
Thank you for the disassembly information!!
 Upon further inspection it appears that my recent problems are because at some point the Transfer Bar spring FELL OUT of the gun. Its gone. It was there before I went to the range and must have fallen out while I was reloading at some point. I feel like a dummy for not checking that sooner. Oh Well.
Now I need to figure out how to get a new one from CZ.
SP-01, 75B SA, 85 Combat, L-120, C100, w/ all interior polish and Full CGW treatment, Sig P229R.

Offline Sam1911

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2010, 04:36:50 PM »
Yes, from what I've read the alternate style (not factory style) mags will hit the transfer bar spring and dislodge it.  If it gets dislodged it certainly could swivel around and drop out, especially if you tried to insert another magazine.

Looks like it is best to stick with the original style mags as they don't hit that spring.
-- Sam

"...with liberty and justice for all." (Must be 18. Void where prohibited. Some restrictions may apply. Not available in all states.)
-D. Stanhope

Offline Guitarguy

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2010, 07:05:32 PM »
I guess since I have two $30 mags that won't work in the Omega, I should buy a regular 75B so I can use them! Yesssss.....
SP-01, 75B SA, 85 Combat, L-120, C100, w/ all interior polish and Full CGW treatment, Sig P229R.

Offline Guitarguy

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2010, 07:07:32 PM »
I just sent an email to CZ USA.
Since I am not the original purchaser I am concerned that there may be no warranty.
We will see...
SP-01, 75B SA, 85 Combat, L-120, C100, w/ all interior polish and Full CGW treatment, Sig P229R.

Offline Guitarguy

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2010, 08:59:59 PM »
OK another question; Does the disconnector fit over or under the trigger bar? Looks like it should go under but mine is now on top.
If I need to relocate it,  How do you get the hammer pin out? The schematic shows a slot on the pin but I can't see what holds it in.
The other pin came out fine with your instructions. 
Thanks,
Eric
SP-01, 75B SA, 85 Combat, L-120, C100, w/ all interior polish and Full CGW treatment, Sig P229R.

Offline Guitarguy

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2010, 12:30:15 PM »
Update!!
 Got a warranty return # from CZ USA, very helpful!
They have a procedure in place to stake the springs in the guns as the do fall out.
SP-01, 75B SA, 85 Combat, L-120, C100, w/ all interior polish and Full CGW treatment, Sig P229R.

Offline Walkure

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2010, 10:09:59 PM »
Yes, from what I've read the alternate style (not factory style) mags will hit the transfer bar spring and dislodge it.  If it gets dislodged it certainly could swivel around and drop out, especially if you tried to insert another magazine.

Looks like it is best to stick with the original style mags as they don't hit that spring.

Several people have had issues with the trigger bar springs falling out; some of those people only ever used factory mags. It's not a mag issue, it's an Omega issue. There appears to be a design flaw in that the tolerances should be tighter around everything concerning the trigger bar spring - that is, the fact that some just fall out while others work fine implies that those that are defective are somehow "loose" in their fitting, which could be due to being on the high side of the currently "acceptable" tolerances for the Omega design. Just one possibility.

The Omega is most certainly FAR less robust than the original 75 design; the internals are no longer built like a tank.

Offline Guitarguy

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Re: Omega Trigger Job?
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2010, 10:03:24 PM »
I ordered and recieved a new spring.  Just $2 bucks.
It was easy to install and I took some time to do a light polish. It feels much better. I will get a chance to shoot it next week. So far so good.
SP-01, 75B SA, 85 Combat, L-120, C100, w/ all interior polish and Full CGW treatment, Sig P229R.

 

anything