Author Topic: Carry SD Ammo  (Read 1280 times)

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Offline CZFS22

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Carry SD Ammo
« on: November 24, 2010, 09:14:56 PM »
A very respected, actually one of the most respected experts in self defense with a firearm who answers questions on another board states that his preferred 9mm round is the ranger 127gr +P+. What is your opinion of shooting this round out of your P-01?

Offline wwdkd

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2010, 10:19:46 PM »
I personally wouldn't do it. That's not to say that the P-01 couldn't do it, it probably could handle the round with no ill effect. I just don't see the point. I don't think a few extra fps is worth potentially damaging my firearm over. I'll stick with my Federal 124 gr. +P HSTs.

Offline Centurion9

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2010, 11:27:24 PM »
That round is one of many I like to use in my 9MM's.  I use my SD ammunition sparingly compared to the American Eagle practice rounds that are my 9's regular diet.  I'd be absolutely disappointed in CZ pistols if they would faint at the use of hot ammunition.  I've spent the last 25 years running every hot round I could buy through a long line of Berettas, Sigs, HK USP's and S&W Autos.  Never any harm, no damage.  Please don't tell me I need to sell my P-01's and my "almost here" SP-01 Tactical for fear of hurting the little guys.....Have I found the only pistol line on the planet that needs to be pampered?  It's a serious question....Centurion9

Offline larryflew

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2010, 11:50:20 PM »
Since there are no Sami specs for +P+ I tend to want to stay with +P in any gun.
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Offline CZ75BRocks

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #4 on: November 25, 2010, 08:04:40 AM »
I'm with larryflew.  +p+ is marketing more than science. Larryflew is exactly on the money since there is no published standard for +p+ then  if company "X" loads to 4% above +p and company "Y" loads to 18% above +p then they are both +p+.  Too ambiguous for me.  I'll stick with what works.  Personally, I like Hornady Critical Defense and Winchester Supreme Elite +P (124gr). IMO

Offline Horsehide

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #5 on: November 25, 2010, 09:05:07 PM »
Most 9x19 rounds will do the job if you do your part and put enough into the "threat".
Bonded rounds and Barnes X loadings offer better penetration of intermediate barrier.
No matter how you look at it, handgun ammunition is relatively weak. Numbers of solid hits on target seem to count more that bullet design.
I usually carry CorBon DPX ammo, but I would not feel undergunned with 124gr FMJ NATO rounds.

Offline CZ75BRocks

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #6 on: November 26, 2010, 07:31:58 AM »
+1 Horsehide. Give me a 5.56 or 7.62 Nato any day over a handgun!!

Offline RandyP

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #7 on: November 26, 2010, 02:25:12 PM »
I feel well protected with any make factory ammo or any of my own reloads, regardless of power level or bullet design. As a civilian it is statistically highly unlikely I will ever fire a single shot in self defense and most likely that even if I do the threat could be neutralized quite effectively with most anything that goes bang if I do my job and place the rounds correctly.

I accept that ammunition manufacturers, like many other providers of goods, hire very competent advertising agencies who create very effective advertising campaigns that instill a false sense of need for their 'special' products in prospective buyers. Capitalism at its finest, regardless of realistic performance.

Never forget that every animal (two and four legged) has been made sufficiently dead by a woodsman firing a wobbly lead ball out of a flintlock musket or percussion rifle with over a century of success.

Like that Texan lawman is quoted (perhaps in a joke) "If I was expecting trouble I'd be carrying a rifle, not a large caliber handgun."
« Last Edit: November 26, 2010, 03:59:38 PM by RandyP »
Various firearms in .22LR, .380ACP, 7.62x25, 7.62x38R, 7.62x54R, 9mm and 45ACP. Lee reloading equipment

Offline BarnacleBill1

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #8 on: December 12, 2010, 06:50:57 AM »
Well, for a dissenting view...

+P+ ammunition isn't much of a "marketing gimmick", given that all such loads from the major manufacturers are LE-only.  Not that you can't get the stuff, but they don't even show it on the regular web sites and you won't find it on the shelf at most sportings goods stores or gun shops.

The origin of it is certain LE agencies trying to turn 9mm into .357 Magnum, and the ammo companies playing along because they wanted the contract.

That said, the major ammo companies are not going to put out something that will blow up in cops' guns.  That would be really dumb, wouldn't it?  It is perfectly safe in any pistol rated for +P.  Yes, if you shoot thousands of rounds of it you'll wear out your pistol faster.  You'll wear out your wallet faster still.  A more typical usage would be to fire enough to confirm reliability and practice with standard pressure ball, maybe every year or so replacing your carry supply of the +P+ stuff & shooting up the old.  You probably won't notice any effect on the gun at all, doing it that way.

I mean the above to apply to +P+ from the major manufacturers who are serious competators in the LE market - Winchester and ATK (Federal & Speer).  Remington & Hornady don't make +P+ ammo, and Cor-Bon seems to have discontinued theirs.  I personally wouldn't be buying handgun ammo for SD (as opposed to practice) from anybody else, +P+ or not.

My personal choice in 9mm, for modern guns that would be OK with +P, is Federal 9BPLE 115gr +P+.  It's not as hot as the Winchester counterpart, but has a good rep among the LE community and in my experience is the easiest to find for non-LE types.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2010, 08:59:02 AM »
The only way to turn 9mm into 357 is to convert to something like 9x23 Win and get that 124gr bullet whistling by at nearly 1500 fps.

 :o



9x23 is a Win-Win situation. It says so right on the case.
« Last Edit: December 12, 2010, 09:04:20 AM by rfwobbly1 »
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Offline Stuart

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2010, 09:27:54 AM »

9x23 is a Win-Win situation. It says so right on the case.

nice...
9x23 was a great round. one of my favorites

Offline BarnacleBill1

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Re: Carry SD Ammo
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2010, 03:22:56 PM »
The only way to turn 9mm into 357 is to convert to something like 9x23 Win and get that 124gr bullet whistling by at nearly 1500 fps.

Well, I wrote "trying", not succeeding.  There was still a limit to what the ammo manufacturers could accomplish (or would try - as I understand it the Ranger 115gr +P+ load originated when the Illinois State Police asked Federal to push 9BPLE up further and they declined, but Winchester went along).

The drawback with 9x23 is that it is too long to fit in a 9mm-sized frame.  That is seen as a highly desireable feature in the current LE market, now that cops come in more petite sizes.

At the time 9mm +P+ first appeared, the only thing around that met that requirement was 9mm itself.  357 Sig was essentially the next step in that line of thought, and gets pretty close (closer than 9mm +P+) to .357 Magnum velocity in a package that fits in a 9mm-sized frame, and without exceeding SAAMI pressure limits.  It seems to be scratching the itch of those who want .357 Magnum ballistics from a 9mm-sized auto.