Author Topic: CZ / BRNO collector  (Read 62877 times)

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alffromafrica

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CZ / BRNO collector
« on: January 30, 2004, 10:27:55 PM »
I'm new to this site.

I collect old Brno and CZ rifles and would be interested in communicating with anyone interested in the history or facts regarding Brno and CZ sporting rifles

CZ75ID

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2004, 10:45:59 AM »
Welcome! From S.Africa?  As for CZ amd Brno rifles..
you should have the best examples there in your gunshops.
Strong sellers in a poor economy..as opposed to Winchesters and Remingtons.

We have a few RSA members here. For Rifles ask Fred.
He is our resident Rifle Expert .

Glad to have you with us. Tell your friends who are CZ lovers.

Offline Fred Flinstone

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« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2004, 05:54:08 AM »
Hi alffromafrica,

Welcome to the Forum, glad to see there's collectors of fine Czech Republic rifles, have you ever had your eyes on a ZG-47(what a beauty). In case you're not familiar Brno has just closed their doors:(  and intellectual property were acquired by CZ-UB. What's your main interest (rim-fire, center-fire, shotguns) field in Brno/CZ rifles?

-Fred-

alffromafrica

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2004, 01:37:45 AM »
Thanks for the words of wellcome.

I have been researching the history and origins of the various Rifles in the ZB and CZ stable.

I need info and ? pictures of the following persons:

Josef Jelen: Originator of the Vz 24.
Otagar Galas for the Galas rifle ZG47
The Brothers Koucky ( JOsef and franticek) for the ZKK, ZKW and ZKM rifles.

I presume the Model 21 and 22 ( more correctly 721 and 722 ) to be the work of Josef Jelen possibly with input from Otagar Galas after serial number 23000 When the squared bridges with dovetails were introduced.

And lastly the 3 Holek brothers for the ZH series of rifles also Pistecky for his ZP series of shotguns.

Anyone with info please help?

Fred flynstone: Yes I have some ZG 47's in my  collection as well as pictures of the very first Galas rifle ZG 47 with SN 0000 1

Offline Fred Flinstone

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« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2004, 08:19:28 PM »
I'm sincerely happy to see a knowledgable Czech Rep. rifle connaisseur. Saddly very little info. is available on the subject, you've even trown new info. to me which I was'nt even aware. Is there some book, document, or other pertaining to the Czech Republic rifles. A gentleman in the U.S. had told me of a ZG-47 poster(2 sided) with various models And variations, unluckely I lost the contact. If ever you write something up please contact (me) this Forum. I hope you take great care in your ZG-47(you lucky man).:D

Thanks again for your reply,
Fred

alffromafrica

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2004, 11:47:09 PM »
Fred:

I have collected some data on all older Brno and CZ rifles.
I have a copy of the poster you are referring to as well as old Shop manuals and parts lists for a lot of the sporting guns.

The history is patchy in that I have had to rely on heresay from many authors and lots of gaps need to be filled.

To give you an example of what I have on the ZG 47 or as it is more correctly named the Galas rifle:

THE GALAS RIFLE:  ZG 47:

This rifle is viewed by many as the pinnacle in Mauser action development and represents arguably of the finest factory production rifles ever made.

The ZG47 unfortunately is relatively rare and short lived, in that production only saw 20,000 rifles made.

The heart of the Galas rifle lies in the modified standard length Mauser 98 action with solid left sidewall and double squared action bridges. The originator of this rifle was the engineer Otakar Galas of Zbrojovka Brno and is designated by the model number ZG 47 indicating design in 1947.

The rifle with SN 00001 with date stamp 50 (1950) was made in cal 9.3x62 Mauser and belonged to the late Tony Harrison of Cape Town South Africa. It was originally imported by Bren Arms formerly of Cape Town in the RSA. The rifle is currently  in possession of Mark Harrison, son of the late Mr. Harrison Snr.

The rifle itself is in pristine condition and I have had the pleasure to actually handle and photograph it

Although early advertisements claimed that the ZG47 was only made in 8 calibers it would appear that other rare and unreported calibers were found in this rifle.
Rifle ZG 47 with SN 05217 dated 1956 was made in cal 8x68S and a rare 9.3x64 Brennecke SN 02862 with barrel date stamp 65 and action stamp 57 is noted.

ZG 47 rifle configurations:

There is a paucity in the gun literature regarding the specifications on the Galas rifle and specifically regarding origins.

The following variations are noted from early factory parts catalogs on the ZG 47 rifle.

BARREL CONFIGURATIONS:

The basic barrel length on the ZG 47 was given as a 60 cm / 4 groove barrel in two weight configurations.

1.        HEAVY BARREL:  7X57, 7X64, 8X57JS, 8X60, 8X64S, 30-06, 270WIN, 9.3X62

2.   LIGHT BARREL:   7X57, 7X64, 8X57JS, 8X60, 30-06, 270WIN

STOCK  TYPES:

1.        Standard Stock: In 3 configuartions:  BASIC, RELIEVED and LIGHT
2.        Deluxe A: also in BASIC, RELIEVED and LIGHT (No schnabel but with a rounded black tip and Monte Carlo cheekpiece)
3.        Deluxe B:  Schnable fore end in Basic, Relieved, and light configuration.
4.        Deluxe C:  Slender stock
5.        Mannlicher Stock: Optional
6.        Super deluxe:

Caliber choices:

The ZG 47 was offered in the following  standard caliber choices:

7x57 Mauser, 8x57S, 8x60S, 8x64S, 30-06, 270 Win and 9.3x62 Mauser.

Special order rifles could be had in 10,75x68 and 5.6x61 Vom Hofe.

ZB also offered as special order any Rimless cartridge no longer than 3. 33 inches or 85mm thus rare rifles have known to exist in calibers such as the 9.3x64 Brenneke and the 8x68S.

The factory poster for the ZG 47 rifle recommends the 8x64S caliber as the universal caliber for all hunting.

Apart from the sporting configurations two sniper rifles were also made. The ZG47 SN as well as a ZG 51 SN.  

The ZG 51 was originally submitted by Galas with the ZG47 action but the then russian influence desigantated that the rifle be built on a Mannlicher 1891 / 30 action. The ZG51 production was very limited and was replaced by the Vz 54 built between 1954 and 1957. This too was built on the Mannlicher 1891/30 action.

These were built in cal 7.92x64 and a single shot target rifle ZG 474 in cal 7.92x57 is also noted in the literature.

Scope mounting:

The ZG 47 like its predecessors sported the doubled square bridge action with integral dove tail grooves for scope mounting. This feature was part of the latter 721 and 722 models ( post serial number 23,000 ), the ZG 47 series, the later Koucky brothers series ZKK as well as the current CZ range of sporting rifles.

The origin of this mounting system is not known to me but I summize it may be a Galas design as it's use falls within his tenure at ZB

The original BRNO scope mount for the ZG 47 utilized as one piece mounting system used to mount the Meopta scopes made in Czechoslovakia
 
Who was Otakar Galas: ( Otagar ?)

Born 1904 Syrovice in former Bohemia
Graduates from State technical college  in 1927.
Joins Ceskoslovenska Zbrojovka Brno after graduation.

After the occupation of the Sudetenland in 1938 and subsequent take over of the rest of Czechoslovakia Galas flees to the UK in 1940.

Although he is not part of the design team of the BREN gun he also works at BSA on it's production in the UK. Also accredited with work on the Oerlikon anti-aircraft gun system and the BESA machinegun.

 At the conclusion of the war Galas returns to Czechoslvakia in 1945 where he is responsible for the design of the ZG 47 and its derivatives.





n-22MK1

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #6 on: March 23, 2004, 03:10:46 AM »
I have a BRNO Mod 4 and I'm looking for a factory rear aperture sight for it.
  I bought it when the US first dropped the import restrictions on them and it came with the globe front and the micrometer rear leaf. I had the rear aperture on order for a long time and then the distributor said they couldn't get anymore. I'd like to get the rear aperture sight so I can use it for turkey shoots. The local club only allows scoped guns up to 4x to shoot at 200 yards while you can shoot iron sights at 100.

www.hunt101.com/img/119765-big.jpg

www.hunt101.com/img/119873-big.jpg

  I only found out recently on Rimfire Central that the middle screw on the front sling mount tensions a leaf spring that contacts the otherwise free floated barrel for tuning adjustment.

Offline Fred Flinstone

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2004, 04:11:16 AM »
Brno has ceased producing parts for the #4 a long time ago, spare parts were distributed worldwide while U.S. had embargo, due to this rear sights and spare parts are extremely rare to get and ask a premium $ in the U.S., some may be available once in a while thru e-Bay or other similar type of e-auctions.

Please post your wanted item in the RIMFIRE SECTION of this Forum.

Good luck,
Fred

Offline dancz

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2007, 02:32:25 AM »
Here are some of my Czechs, Brnos and CZs.

Please note that I am a hunter and shooter and that most of what I own are well used. I am not a photographer and apologise for the poor quality.



ZBK 110 -- .222 Rem



ZBK 110 -- .222 Rem (same as above)



Brno Fox Mod 2 -- .22 Hornet



ZKW 465 -- .22 Hornet



Brno Fox Mod 2 -- .222 Rem



CZ 527 -- .222 Rem



CZ 527 American -- .204 Ruger



CZ 527 Varmint -- .204 Ruger



ZKK 601 -- .222 Rem


Brno Fox -- .222 Rem



ZKK 601 -- .223 Rem



ZKK 601 -- .243 Win



ZKK 600 -- .270 Win



ZG 47 -- .270 Win



Mod 21 -- 7mm



Mod 21 -- 7mm



52/57  7.62 x 39



ZKK 601 -- .308 Win



ZKK 600  30_06



ZG 47  30_06



30_06 Unsure of model



ZKK 600  30_06



CZ 550 American  6.5 x 55 S



ZKK 600  30_06



Mod 21  7mm



Mod 21  8mm



ZG 47  8 x 64



Mod 21  8mm



ZKK600 - 30_06



CZ550 Minnesota - 308



A couple of VZ33's - 8mm



ZKK 602 - 375H&H


 
ZKK 602 - 458 Win



CZ 550 Safari Classic - 458 Lott



VZ58's - 7.62x39



Semi 12 gauge




ZH101 - 12+12




Brno - 12+12



ZH103 - 12+12



SxS - 12+12



SxS - 16+16



ZH301 - 12+12



Mod 3 - 12+222 Rem



ZH304 - 12+7x57R



Mod 2 - 12+5.6x52R



ZH305 - 12+22 Savage





ZKK601 Custom - 6mm Rem. My wifes rifle that I use to bust bunnys at around 400 yards



VZ59 - 7.62



CZ61 Scorpion - 7.65



ZK383 - 9mm



CZ23 - 9mm



CZ24 - 7.65



Bren MK I - 303 British, I know that its not a Czech but you have to give them the credit as they designed it first.

Thats all for the moment, if anyone wants more Czechs posted I'll have to get the camera out again. You'll have to let me know though as the others are either double ups, handguns or rimfires.

Around about another 50 without showing two of the same. One day I'll get together a decent collection, there are certainly alot that I still would love to get my hands on and many that I'm sure others here have already.

All the best wishes from down under.

Good shooting, hunting and collecting to all.
New Zealand

Offline wlchase

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #9 on: February 09, 2007, 10:07:04 AM »
Those pictures are not only just fine, they are awesome! And so are the firearms! I'm in lust! :o

The woodwork on the first set is just stunning!

And, how do you like the VZ58?

Wow! Maybe I should show this to my wife... she likes "attractive" guns! Might let me collect a few more! :lol

Thanks sooo much for sharing!
Bill
"The right to buy weapons is the right to be free". A.E van Vogt
CZ75 P-01   CZ52 (53)  S&W 642  
1903 M96B Carl Gustaf Swedish Mauser Remington 870 Wingmaster 12Ga
USPSA Area 4, Brazosland Pistoleros

Offline dancz

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2007, 03:17:10 AM »
Hi Bill

So what have you got that you collect?

The pics were only of my centre fire rifles and shot guns. I've also got 26 Czech rimfires and another 20 or so handguns.

New Zealand

Offline wlchase

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« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2007, 08:23:28 AM »
Well, I'm finance-challeneged (I did mention the wife, right? :rollin  ) and just starting out, so all I have as collectible is the CZ-52 pistol, which I intend to refinish a bit.

I'm hoping to get maybe a Schmidt-Rubin K-31 and redo the woodwork.

Bill
"The right to buy weapons is the right to be free". A.E van Vogt
CZ75 P-01   CZ52 (53)  S&W 642  
1903 M96B Carl Gustaf Swedish Mauser Remington 870 Wingmaster 12Ga
USPSA Area 4, Brazosland Pistoleros

jawheeler

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2007, 02:46:06 PM »
To: alffromafrica,

I am a "new" collector (2 years) of Mauser, CZ and BRNO rifles.  The information you give on the ZG47 is the most extensive I have ever encountered.  I would love to see more of the same about the 21/22 and ZKK model guns.  I currently have 6 model 21's and 5 model ZG47's.  I have 3 early model 602's and 1- 600 ZKK.  So little information is available about these guns and anything more you or anyone else can provide is greatly appreciated.  If you don't mind I have a few questions?

1.  I have noticed that some of the ZKK series guns have a pop up peep sight.  Do you know what year that feature was discontinued?  Mine is a 458 and is dated 1973 and has the peep.  My 375 H&H is dated 1985 and does not have the peep.

2.  I have a ZG47 that has a bolt shroud and safety like the 21/22 models.  Is this common or did someone swap parts.  I noticed in the post by dancz that some of his 21/22 models had parts that looked like ZG47 parts ie the bolt handle on a few.

3.  I am interested in adding to my collection.  Does anyone have any of these guns for sale?  Not just guns but other items as well like catalogs, posters, promotional items, parts, original scope bases and whatever else you can think of.

4.  How can we get the editors of the Blue Book of Gun Values to show the correct history and value of these guns?

5.  Is there any books or other literature out there about these guns?  Jon Speed mentions the guns in his book on Mauser rifles but lumps the 21's and ZG47's together as one gun.

I could go on with the questions all afternoon but I will stop at this for now.  I guess I'm just excited about finding this forum and I am looking forward to your responses.

Jeff
jaw1083@bellsouth.net

kynych

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2007, 08:54:03 PM »
Hi,
     I do have some custom double rifles built on ZP 49 receivers.If tou send me your Email I'i send you pictures. Thank you Tony Kynych
                                        kynych@axxent.ca

rthompson16

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CZ / BRNO collector
« Reply #14 on: July 09, 2007, 07:50:12 PM »
I have a Brno ZG 47 Cal 30-06 and date stamp of 56 on both barrel and action stamp of 56. I could not find the SN #. Where might I find it?

I have been trying to find history of this rifle for about 2 months now. Thank you for posting it.

Rob T