Author Topic: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS  (Read 4235 times)

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Offline marine6680

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Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« on: May 16, 2012, 06:18:45 AM »
Looking at getting an Semi-auto rifle chambered in 7.62x39 but without the regulations/worries the AK and SKS pose. Things like adding adjustable stocks and high cap magazines can get dicey. (the AK isn't too bad it this regard though)

Mostly for fun... maybe set up an assault course like I ran during training back in the day. What can I say... it was fun.

Why 7.62x39? Its cheap! And that's important.

An adjustable butt-stock is not a requirement but nice, same for a pistol grip. (though having different stock options available for it are nice) It does need to be a handy size and weight. (similar to an AK or carbine style AR in length or the SOCOM 16 from Springfield which BTW I wish they offered in 7.62x39) I want to be able to use high cap mags. (20 rounds +) I would like the mags to be easy to find and reasonable in price. And of course... reliable.

Sure... the AK seems like a good fit, but I just do not like it that well. (though I would choose it if the world was ending LOL)

So the only ones I know of that fit into this set of requirements:

1)AR with 7.62x39 upper... Mags are not too bad... $20-25 avg (but how common are they)... The price may vary and may even be high, also I am not sure which manufacturers offer that chambering. ARs are reliable but need a lot of cleaning, cheap ammo may burn dirty. I would prefer a gas piston design over the impingement system.

2)Sig 556R... Mags are cheap because it uses AKs... but the cost is high, over $1000. It uses a variant of the AK action, that is tweaked and a bit tighter in tolerance. It had some teething issues, but Sig has addressed them. (steel mags caused wear and a few ejection issues, a steel insert and larger ejection port are the fix) I really like this one, mags are easy to find, it should be reliable... but cost is high.

3)Ruger Mini 30... Mags are expensive ($40 or so) and it is only reliable with Ruger made mags so I probably won't be picking them up at the local shop or gun show. It costs about $700 so it isn't cheap, but the Sig and AR (maybe) are more. The action is basically a smaller version of the M1/M14 and should be tough and reliable.

4)VZ 58 from CZUSA... specialty Mags, so hard to find I would think, but ATM are not expensive. Its an accurate and reliable action... but it is discontinued so finding one would be an issue. The run around $850.


Anyone have any other suggestions I missed? Also any insites on the ones I mentioned would be great.

Heck. I would even consider a pistol caliber carbine, they are a lot of fun. They can almost do what a intermediate rifle cartrige rifle can do, and 9mm ammo is cheaper, plus its one less caliber that i need worry with. (have 9mm and 40S&W pistols, 12ga, and a 22LR rifle) But the above rules apply as well, I want the mags it uses to be easy to get, cheap, and high cap. Also the PCC would need to be a lot cheaper in cost to the rifles. (less than $500 or so)

I have looked at the Kel-tek Sub 2000 (friend has one, he loves it, I never shot it) It can use Glock or other common mags, and its pretty cheap. (less than $400 if you can find one in stock)

The Hi-point (yeah of all things) carbine is dirt cheap ($250 or so) and gets high marks from everything I have seen online. Reliable, accurate, the things that matter. Specialty mags (means they may be hard to find in the future) and 15 rounds are the highest I can find... cheap though at $15 apiece.

The Beretta Storm Carbine... I had one of these things right when they first introduced it. Back then it was cheap at $450, but its now up around $800.

BTW: I am not out in California or other firearm unfriendly state. I live in the South East.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 08:53:27 PM by marine6680 »

Offline CZMN

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #1 on: May 16, 2012, 08:21:36 AM »
With everything you mentioned in regards to your choices it sounds to me what you really want is a AK  ;)
I guess were I you and was dead set against a AK I'd go with the Ruger.

I bought a Lancaster Arms AK back in 08 when it became apparent Obama was becoming the next president. It was dead on at 100 yards out of the box. I paid about $800 for mine but Lancaster is quality stuff and not your $400 WASR.
I don't shoot it alot anymore. I best describe it as fun to shoot but not pleasant. The 7.62X39 round is not the most pleasant to shoot round in a carbine style weapon. But it is a street sweeper  ;)

Offline gunguru

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #2 on: May 16, 2012, 09:49:57 AM »
Robinson Arms (but may cost big bucks!!!!)
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. I sure as hell wouldn't want to live in a society where the only people allowed guns are the police and the military.
william_s_burroughs

Offline armed hiker

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #3 on: May 16, 2012, 01:00:54 PM »
Okay
so I have a hi-point carbine and it easily surpasses most expectations.
Reliable ,accurate and a great sized package  but.....
About zero pride of ownership, it just looks like it was designed by the Russians and built by the Chinese. After that the only down side is the magazines, 10rd ....really? It blows my mind that they did not make it to accept someones 20 or 30rd mags, major screw up. Oh but I like it still it is the definition of a truck gun you could toss in the back seat and not worry about that is just sized just right. I doubt I would ever sell mine.

VZ58
CZusa discontinued them but be sure to check out Czechpoint, they are still coming in and the same guns CZ-usa sold. Very nice quality. Parts are becoming more available all the time and you can run different stock options from a full stock to a folder of a few different designs. Also adapters to run an AR collapsible.  Mags are available though like most anything these days they have gotten a little scarce for the moment.
Optics are the weakest point in that you want to decide where you want to be first. Some put a red dot forward of the rear sight others put a optic at the back. probably depends on what you like, high mount or com-bloc low.

One more to look at will be the Century VZ2008, now there are plenty that stay clear of Century rifles but... many owners will tell you century did the VZ right. Prices are between $400-500 on these and many of the same aftermarket parts fit. You could be into a VZ platform all decked out with goodies before hitting the base price of the vz58.

Comparing these two (vz58 vs vz2008) the only thing to know is the vz2008 does not have a chrome lined barrel. So clean well after using the corrosive surplus, You will want to do it with either really.

300 blackout seems to be stealing the 7.62x39 ar's thunder so you may find some trading off 7.62x39 uppers, same deal watch for damage from poor cleaning after corrosive ammo.

The Ruger's are very well thought after but be sure what ammo it can run, I have heard the early ones were not designed to run European 7.62x39 ammo I would hope newer ones are different but I am sure Ruger could clear this up with a call.

Offline mimorr

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #4 on: May 16, 2012, 01:22:34 PM »
I have a cmmg AR-15 chambered in 223/556 and looove it.  But since you are not interested in that caliber you probably dont care lol. Have you shot an AK or do you just not agree with the way they look?  the only 2 rifles i have shot chambered in 7.62 are an AK and an SKS both great weapons both belong to family members, i guess your best bet is to go to your local range and rent until you find what you want.  An assault rifle is a big investment make sure you get what you want.  also my sisters boyfriend has the keltec s2k, i HATED it but that's just me it IS cheap and i think they come in 9mm and .40 cal so it might be what your looking for.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 01:26:56 PM by mimorr »
CMMG Ar-15 .223/.556, CZ 75 PO-1 9mm, CZ 82 9mm Mak, Marlin Model 60 .22lr, Beretta 92fs 9mm

Offline jwc007

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #5 on: May 16, 2012, 02:01:50 PM »
Hmmm?  You want a "Politically Correct" Semi-Auto Rifle.  Form does follow Function and you may find that you really do want an (Gasp shudder) "Assault Rifle".  Which, lacking the "Full Auto" function, is really only a Hi-Capacity Sporting/Defense Semi-Auto Rifle!

Had a Stainless Ruger Mini-30 Ranch Rifle, and wish I still had it.  Ammunition sensitive in terms of accuracy.  Winchester, Remington, Federal, S&B, and Lapua all ran fine in it.  Russian and South African, not so much.  Groups with the latter could be best described as "Patterns".  One modification I found improved accuracy considerably and that was to re-crown the muzzle.  Making sure the Gas Block Screws are evenly torqued is another accuracy enhancement.  Newer Min-30's are supposed to be more accurate but also cost more.

If it comes down to getting an AK, the ONLY AK I would currently consider is the IO Inc AK:
http://www.ioinc.us/     They are marketed thru: http://www.royaltigerimports.com/
The most accurate AK made and made in the USA.

The Sig 556R is a very nice Rifle if you can afford one and the better optics mount platform of all.

A Vz58 is probably the best choice in your list cost/benefit wise and forward Optics Mounts are available that will suit your needs for fast target acquisition.  One of these is at the top of my "Wants" list!  Magazines are currently available, but he who hesitates, has lost!  Also, there are plenty of Wood or Synthetic Furniture options, should you wish to customize it's appearance to your liking.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 02:21:56 PM by jwc007 »
"Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda


For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

Offline marine6680

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #6 on: May 16, 2012, 07:07:36 PM »
"politically correct" haha... no

I had a RRA carbine patterned AR several years ago. Sold it to pay bills when I got laid off... was a sad day.

I don't care for the sights on the AKs, and the cheap ones feel exactly that... cheap. The looks of the AK, I am not against it, I just am not a huge fan of it. Though one decked out with synthetic furniture and good optics looks pretty good.

That being said... if I was told the world was ending tomorrow and to pick a rifle... it would be an AK. Its ruggedness would be a benefit in a world gone to hell. Seeing as that isn't the case, I want a rifle that I like/enjoy. Still want reliability though.  ;D

Accuracy is not a huge concern, if I can hit a silhouette or large circle target at 150-200 yards I am good. I don't need super accuracy. I would like to keep the cost of the rifle with 4 extra mags to less than $1500, and the less the cost, the sooner in the future I will be able to get it. A higher end AK would not be out of the question. But I think I would limit one of those to less than $900 with good stock, mags, and a simple optic. (not looking for a $500 reflex or red dot, just a good one at a good price) Spending any more than that, and I might as well just spend a few hundred more and get the Sig or AR. (the Sig includes a red dot, but how good it is i do not know) And like I said... Mag availability now and 5 years + from now is important. What good is a rifle that I do not have functioning mags for and I can not find any to purchace?

Got a Ruger 10/22 with synthetic standard stock the other day, and I am going to do a little to it for the fiance to play with. A good red dot or reflex, maybe even add some peep style sights to it. May or may not change the stock, just depends. Comfort and ease of handling are what I would be looking for, folding is not required.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 07:09:33 PM by marine6680 »

Offline dlk

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #7 on: May 16, 2012, 08:21:27 PM »
I think the 762x39 cartridge is considered politically incorrect all by itself.
If I had to buy 1 762 rifle, I would get an arsenal slr ak clone.  8-900 $ I think but it is a lifetime keeper. You can get a fixed stock and lower cap mags if necessary.  After that, I would go with the mini 30.  I have fired them and they shoot like a champ. low cap mags available for them as well.  If you don't change the stock (which you don't really have to do!) it is rather benign looking compared to other 762 weapons.
For that price, a good 9mm carbine can be found as well which you would be able to shoot in more locations (if that is an issue)

Offline marine6680

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #8 on: May 16, 2012, 08:46:23 PM »
I'm not in California... so no need to worry about that.

A pistol caliber carbine would be for its lower cost and cheaper ammo. No real restrictions in caliber use or other such considerations. Just cheap to shoot and reliable, with easy to find mags.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2012, 08:50:00 PM by marine6680 »

Offline mimorr

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2012, 01:43:47 PM »
how do you like the ruger .22 I have a marlin 60 and love it but i have been considering the 10/22 tactical, it's just so expensive.  Anyway after everything said i think your best most reliable option within your price range would be an AR chambered in 9mm I will admit i don't shoot my AR at all as much as i would like to because the .223 is SOOO expensive but the platform is outstanding im sure you are aware as you posted you use to have one.
CMMG Ar-15 .223/.556, CZ 75 PO-1 9mm, CZ 82 9mm Mak, Marlin Model 60 .22lr, Beretta 92fs 9mm

Offline marine6680

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2012, 04:38:18 PM »
What magazines do the AR 9mm use?

been looking at the AR in 7.62 not too bad.

Uhg... balancing cost and other factors...

I like the idea of using magazines common enough that I can pick a couple up from a local source if I have a problem with one and need to get a replacement. I like having several on hand so I am not reusing the same one over and over wearing the spring quickly.

Mags like Milsurp AR and AK are cheap but might be well used and wear out quickly... but getting new manufacture mags are still cheap for AR and AKs compared to other mags.

Offline armoredman

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2012, 06:20:15 PM »
I had AKs. I have an SA vz-58. It is much better, lighter, more accurate than the AKM clones I had, and just plain fun to shoot.

The vz-58 can be had from Czechpoint in either military original with the world famous beaver barf stock, Sporter or folding stock military, 10 round or 30 round capable.

http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/rifles/762-x-39-mm/

They are listed out of stock on everything right now, but catching up. Magazines are not really expensive, and Czechpoint carries a LOT of accessories! Czechpoint is also the place to go for the side mount for the rear short rail optics rail, seen here on my wife's SA vz-58 5.56mm with AR magwell adapter,



I prefer the forward mounted red dot look myself on my SA vz-58 7.62x39mm, using FAB forearm, pistol grip and folding stock, all available at Czechpoint - surf through the Spare Parts section. Current optic is the well thought of Bushnell TRS-25, seems to work quite well,



Magazines - http://www.czechpoint-usa.com/products/spare-parts-and-accessories/vz-58-parts-and-accessories/?list=7   $15 for 922 compliant mags. Not bad at all. LOTS of spare parts available that I've so far not needed, the rifle just keeps on going and going...



It will do what you want - here is a B-27 silhouette target shot at 200 yards, EOTech 1X red dot sight, not rested.



Shot like this,



I highly recommend the Israeli patrol sling, very nice item. I haven't been out to do this in a while - either bad wind or nobody I can trust to gear guard whilst I trudge downrange that far. :(

Other than that, the only non AK 7.62x39mm rifle would be the elusive Valmet, high dollar sporter, the Saiga, which is, of course, and AK with a slightly different look, the Century vz-2008, which, as noted above, seems to be the exception to the rule of Century made rifles are junk. Most members here with vz-2008s are very happy with them. All Czechpoint mags will fit Century vz-2008 rifles.
If you are willing to go bolt action, the CZ 527M 7.62x39mm carbine is unbeatable for a light rifle - LOVE mine.



Offline marine6680

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2012, 09:02:15 PM »
I looked at the Czechpoint... nice, but I noticed that part of the compliance parts are in the magazine. That means I need to use US made mags to be compliant. I have to be careful where I source mags.

The Century made version... they use US made receivers and barrels, yet the price is a third less. I would bet the other parts they use to be compliant are the same as the Czechpoint. (sear and other internals) Mag sourcing would be less of an issue.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 01:48:51 AM by marine6680 »

Offline marine6680

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #13 on: May 18, 2012, 01:53:15 AM »
Mimorr:

The Ruger is a nice little rifle, with some better sights or a red dot, it will be great.

Offline mimorr

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Re: Semi-auto in 7.62x39mm other than AK and SKS
« Reply #14 on: May 18, 2012, 08:20:59 PM »
Nice, i know that several of my local ranges sell 30rd 9mm AR mags.  Also i'm pretty sure you can buy them in surplus online from several sites just like other AR magazines.  If you are worried about availabilty of mags, just find a site that has them (should'nt be hard) and order like 15-20 them and you'll never have to worry about it again. I understand your concern for expensive ammunition it sucks for my AR, thats partly why i just bought my P-01, 9mm is about as cheap as you can go these days besides .22 lr and unfortunatley i don't see ammo prices going down any time soon.  Also I don't want to talk bad about any gun company but there is a reason that the century weapons are so cheap.  I really wanted to buy a century cetme which is basically an H&K g3 clone, but after reading nightmare after nightmare of reviews from dozens of people i decided not to. Again i never owned the weapon so i can't determine the quality, but where i come from century has a very bad rep.
CMMG Ar-15 .223/.556, CZ 75 PO-1 9mm, CZ 82 9mm Mak, Marlin Model 60 .22lr, Beretta 92fs 9mm

 

anything