Author Topic: Czech Mosin Nagant - the M91/38  (Read 334 times)

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Offline Neal45

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Czech Mosin Nagant - the M91/38
« on: December 15, 2013, 07:08:51 PM »


Hello to all.  I'm new here at the CZ forum and have joined to see if anyone can help me out on researching information regarding the Mosin Nagant M91/38.  These are an uncommon version of the Mosin and very little is known about them.   They were cut down from the much longer standard WWI Russian rifle, the M91 by the Czechs, likely after 1948.   New front and rear sights were added, the rifles were refurbished, and stocks were shortened in the fore end from standard M91 stocks or standard carbine stocks for the Mosin M38 or M44 were used.  Originally these 91/38s had a folding bayonet like the Mosin M44 but they were later removed (except for one at least that I have seen.)

Above is a photo of the two I have, a 1892 Chatellerault and a 1897 Tula.  The Chatellerault has the modified M91 stock and the Tula has a standard M38 carbine stock.

There was an interesting discussion on the 91/38 back in January on this forum.  Please see http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=52383.0

I would like to add a little more.  Here is the arsenal mark on the barrel shank and the Imperial Russian mark above the Czech markings on the receiver.



Here is a detail of the Czech markings.



I have been developing a database on these interesting carbines for about 3 years, getting my information from auctions, other forums, and emails.  Some of the interesting information I have found based on my database of 77 or so (up to 7 could be duplicates - it is a long story.)

Dates: 1891 - 1915.
Arsenal and quantity:
Chatellerault (France) - 5
Sestroryetsk - 6
Tula - 17
Izhevsk -49

An interesting point - the Russians upgraded all of their M91 stocks around 1909 to first add a wooden crossbolt and shortly thereafter a steel crossbolt.  It is quite uncommon to see a M91 with no crossbolt or a wooden one.  On the other hand with the M91/38 looking at 24 modified M91 stocks, three have wooden crossbolts and 8 have no crossbolt.  The rest have the common steel crossbolt.  It is hard to imagine how the ones with the missing or wooden crossbolts missed the Russian 1909 upgrade.  My Chatellerault has no crossbolt.  The Tula has the stand steel crossbolt found on all M38s.

Another intersting point - many of the 91/38s have a single digit struck on or around the arsenal mark.  In the referenced January thread the number 7 can clearly be seen on the post by PonchoMike.  My Tula has a 4 but it is much harder to see in the photo.  On the ones that have the single digit, the numbers 1, 3, 4, 5, and 7 are found.  No one has come forth with an explanation.

It would be of interest to the Mosin 91/38 collecting community to learn when, where, and why the M91 Mosins were reconfigured to carbine length.

Please help if you can.


Offline whooziss

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Re: Czech Mosin Nagant - the M91/38
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2014, 05:43:23 PM »
If you are still accumulating data on these fascinating carbines, here is mine. 1905 Izzy, all matching, stamped numbers, wooden crossbolt, number 5 on barrel shank next to the Izzy arrow. Sorry this is so late, I just found this thread.

Offline jedzarda

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Re: Czech Mosin Nagant - the M91/38
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2014, 05:29:49 AM »
The title View more I would stay up from you next.

 

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