Author Topic: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....  (Read 37204 times)

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Offline BA Glover

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Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« on: June 09, 2014, 05:34:22 PM »
Long time lurker, first time post.....  Figured this one was good enough to break the silence....

Palmetto State Armory has CZ2008 on sale for $399 plus postage.

http://palmettostatearmory.com/index.php/century-international-arms-vz2008-sporter-rifle-7-62x39-ri1554-x.html

I broke down and ordered one.

V/R
BA

Offline Cheapo

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #1 on: June 09, 2014, 05:36:13 PM »
My first post on the fourm too, and I did the same thing as you lol. Ordered one just a few minutes ago.

Offline vzFOOL

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #2 on: June 09, 2014, 06:52:26 PM »
Ugg, I want to grab that soooo bad, but the missus would be pissed, LOL. That is a pretty sweet deal. I've just about got my original built the way I want, and this would let me build a second one in a different configuration.

Offline Knife Wounds

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #3 on: June 09, 2014, 09:30:56 PM »
I like the price and have never had a bad PSA deal.  I recently grabbed one of the J&G 400 2008's.  It has a Century feature where the safety pretty much spins in a circle.  Doesnt hit a stop if u push the safety forward i have half a mind to put a drop of jb weld on the receiver, or a screw. 

Offline RSR

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2014, 12:42:54 AM »
The notches on the safety should engage your trigger spring which has a raised portion that's supposed click and engage the safety.  Granted, the safety can rotate 360* on every of these rifles, but should click into place at 3:00 (90*), 6:00 (180*), and 9:00 (270*).

Offline TJNewton

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2014, 02:55:01 AM »
Good God that's cheap, complete with accessories.  I was questioning how vendors were making a profit at around $500, much less Century and their wholesale margin.  It could be that Palmetto has a cash flow problem and is selling them at, or slightly above, cost.  I suspect that many vendors are hurting now as they're sitting on merchandise ordered a year ago during the scare and people have stopped buying.  I hope the gun industry is not going to implode.  Those left will then have the extremely high prices again.

I've read posts from years ago where VZ58 parts kits were selling retail for $50 (now ~$300).  It could be that Century bought thousands of them wholesale for just a few dollars each and is now cashing in on it.  If so, it was a good move.  Maybe Palmetto is still making money on the deal.

So tempting to get another...

Offline ZardozCZ

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2014, 08:21:07 AM »
I just popped for this @ $519. Still pleased with it but this is really good deal. Ammo less than $.24/ea locally. Fun shooter too
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Offline s0nspark

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2014, 10:42:45 AM »
OK, forgive the noob question but I am totally new to rifles...

I have been contemplating my first purchase with the goal of building something for for home defense. Would this be a suitable platform to build on?
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Offline Cheapo

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2014, 11:04:10 AM »
OK, forgive the noob question but I am totally new to rifles...

I have been contemplating my first purchase with the goal of building something for for home defense. Would this be a suitable platform to build on?

Doing the same as you. This was my first semi auto rifle with a detachable magazine. Ordered it yesterday with the end goal of making it more of a "home defense" (This wont be a primary go to however, Glock 35 or some other handgun will always be first pick) set up. From what research I've seen, yes it is a good platform however parts/upgrades will cost you quite a bit more than if you were to do the same thing with an AK and your options are limited.

Offline RSR

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2014, 12:32:59 PM »
Honestly, one all purpose rifle, the 7.62x39 and the VZ58 in particular is a great multipurpose option for all needs w/in 300yards/m -- better than AR15 for all needs w/in 200y/m IMO.  But both are overkill for an indoors-specific home defense weapon/caliber.  You only need a rifle indoors if you're needing to penetrate body armor, which as a civilian, you don't, or shouldn't. 
EDIT: Should add, though the VZ58 is a military surplus weapon from the 1950s, it's bones are the where Western/Nato models are finally ending up.  The weapon was ahead of it's time, and with some of the modern upgrades, you have the same ergos and similar action to the modern SCARs, etc short stroke piston weapons, w/o all the polymer.  And don't forget the tab if you're entrusting your life to the weapon.

For a home defense specific weapon, our primary is the Keltec Sub2000 in 9mm w/ the Glock Mag setup (33 round OEM glock mags -- though the Sub2k have been recently made of unobtanium, the pricepoint here is cost on GB [only place I've seen them without a months long waitlist] of $450-500 plus ~$100 in essential mods [waitlist  you'd end up at that the $450 to $500 total pricepoint I'd imagine, a $100 GB premium]; cheaper than the VZ58/2008 when all said and done, considering rail costs, etc).  The primary whys here are:
-sufficient but not overpowered/overpenetration within 50 yards (357 magnum equivalent at point blank range),
-excellent and cost effective performance in soft targets (read: human flesh, if defensive loads perform at standard velocities they're even more devastating/better at expanding/fragmenting at higher velocities which mitigates much of the potential for add'l penetration) at price points at less than 33 cents per round (primarily using Federal 9BP -- and you're looking at 50+ cents/round for similarly performing 7.62x39 rounds),
-muzzle blast and flash less than pistol of same caliber, just a little above 22lr out of a rifle actually (this allows for no disorientation/distraction as well as fast followup),
-a more ergonomic and accurate platform, especially for non-experts/beginners/those who don't have hours of range time under their belt; all rifles are better than pistols in this regard (I also think that a pump action semi-auto shotgun is the most difficult platform for novices to master, especially with issues like short stroking, tactical reloads, getting back on target with substantial muzzle blast/flash/muzzle rise, etc),
-the sub2000 empty and unloaded weighs 4lbs versus ~7lbs VZ2008
-at 29.5" open, it's essentially shorter than pistol is with arms extended and locked (VZ2008 is 34-35" open and my arms are 34-35" in dress shirts),
-it's also friendly for mounting a light/red dot/laser/etc -- I have a fiber optic sight and flashlight only on mine,
-it's easy to mount a light that actually points where you're looking, pistol maneuvers with lights are more complex IMO even if mounted due to weapon retention precautions,
-you can mount a sling which is a major plus for weapon retention,
-and ultimately, it's a weapon that both me and the Mrs are comfortable with and confident using.
Sidearms/pistols as secondaries.

Basically, the only thing the VZ58 and Keltec rifles lack that my pistol has is tritium sights.  All HD weapons should have them IMO, but with a mounted light, they're less important...

My current preferences of weapons with rough uses for the personal defense/basic initial personal collection that covers all the bases setups if your curious (this is a value proposition list btw -- the best bang for buck; quality/capability first with cost the secondary consideration -- I approach weapons as such and as a cost-conscious new gun owner you will too; BOTTOM LINES are that trained well on with one weapon is worth 10 in the safe, at least 10 magazines per self defense weapon and 6 for your fun guns, you can never have enough ammo (but a couple thousand rounds/a couple years of recreational needs should be a minimum goal to work towards), don't forget body armor that you'll put on before investigating bumps in the night [like training, body armor and one gun beats no body armor and 10, level 3a minimum, 3+ ideal], you can't and don't want to shoot what you can't see so don't forget weapons lights or a flashlight always at hand, and lastly make sure you have extra springs and critical other spare parts on hand for each self defense weapon you own):
Handgun: 9mms -- Sig 2022, CZ75, Canik 55 Stingray-C (I prefer DA/SA, but for striker the Canik 55 TP 9 and Glock are actually probably preferable and easier for brand new shooters -- stick w/ 9mm and good ammo and you're GTG)
Handgun: 22lr - Bersa 22lr (again, this is DA/SA weapon, for striker practice a Ruger Mark 3 is probably best)
Indoor Home Defense: Keltec Sub2000 9mm, Uzi Rifle or Suomi Rifle or Colt 9mm Carbine (Colt 9mm are blowback not DI actions, same action as Uzi and Keltec, not sure about Suomi) would also swap in here. 
Carbine: VZ58 7.62x39 - primarily intended for outdoors w/in 200 yards, ideally w/in 150 yards; red dot optic
Rifle, 22lr: Can't go wrong with a Ruger 10/22 (especially their 50th anniversary edition, the edition rifle, not just every 10/22 with the sticker) or Marlin Model 60, in that order IMO.
Shotgun: Remington 770 for pump, and Yildiz for O/U sporting.  Don't know crap about or have an autoloader...
--To this point is, generously, the max distance where any civilian in a situation that's not SHTF, WROL, etc, has a legitimate self defense use/need for the above weapon(s)/roles
Rifle: Galil 5.56 Nato - intermediate round, intermediate range; ideally 150-300 yards, but 500 yard capable with standard 55-62gr ammo; 1-6x DMR Optic; ideally any piston-driven AR would swap in, but a direct-impingement AR by a reliable manufacturer is acceptable too...  More effective at longer range with a 68-77 precision round.
Longer Range - K31 7.5 Swiss bolt action; 300-500 ideal, but 500-1000 yard capable; match grade ammo at bulk .308 costs.  New production Remington 700, Winchester 60, or Savage in .308 (or if you want .270 or .30-06) are good alternatives.


Good read on 22lr for self defense: http://graywolfsurvival.com/1869/why-22-best-home-defense-weapon/

Good video on the Sub2k (yes, nutnfancy...):


Good video on pistol carbines (again, yes nutnfancy...):


And he continues the thought process in this M1 Carbine video:


Just some food for thought.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 01:56:02 PM by RSR »

Offline jwc007

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #10 on: June 10, 2014, 01:21:32 PM »
Coming with 5 extra magazines to boot, this is a great deal!  I would pick up a second one on this deal, if I had the spare change.

I have been contemplating my first purchase with the goal of building something for for home defense. Would this be a suitable platform to build on?

For customizing into a Tactical Carbine, Yes!


Vz2008 with upgrades
BoneSteel upper and lower front hand guards
Mako Pistol Grip
Mako Folding Adjustable Stock
Slovakian Muzzle Break
Hammers Red/Green Dot Sight

As far as Home Defense goes, my 12 gauge Remington 1100 with a short Riot/Slug Barrel serves as primary just past a good Handgun.
For longer ranges outside my home, my Vz2008 does serve as primary.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 01:25:42 PM by jwc007 »
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Offline Cheapo

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #11 on: June 10, 2014, 01:45:27 PM »
Honestly, one all purpose rifle, the 7.62x39 and the VZ58 in particular is a great multipurpose option for all needs w/in 300yards/m -- better than AR15 for all needs w/in 200y/m IMO.  But both are overkill for an indoors-specific home defense weapon/caliber.  You only need a rifle indoors if you're needing to penetrate body armor, which as a civilian, you don't, or shouldn't. 
EDIT: Should add, though the VZ58 is a military surplus weapon from the 1950s, it's bones are the where Western/Nato models are finally ending up.  The weapon was ahead of it's time, and with some of the modern upgrades, you have the same ergos and similar action to the modern SCARs, etc short stroke piston weapons, w/o all the polymer.  And don't forget the tab if you're entrusting your life to the weapon.

For a home defense specific weapon, our primary is the Keltec Sub2000 in 9mm w/ the Glock Mag setup (33 round OEM glock mags -- though the Sub2k have been made somewhat of unobtanium, the pricepoint here is cost on GB of $450-500 plus ~$100 in essential mods; cheaper than the VZ58/2008 when all said and done, considering rail costs, etc).  The primary whys here are:
-sufficient but not overpowered/overpenetration within 50 yards (357 magnum equivalent at point blank range),
-excellent and cost effective performance in soft targets (read: human flesh, if defensive loads perform at standard velocities they're even more devastating/better at expanding/fragmenting at higher velocities which mitigates much of the potential for add'l penetration) at price points at less than 33 cents per round (primarily using Federal 9BP -- and you're looking at 50+ cents/round for similarly performing 7.62x39 rounds),
-muzzle blast and flash less than pistol of same caliber, just a little above 22lr actually (this allows for no disorientation/distraction as well as fast followup),
-a more ergonomic and accurate platform, especially for non-experts/beginners/those who don't have hours of range time under their belt; all rifles are better than pistols in this regard (I also think that a pump action semi-auto shotgun is the most difficult platform for novices to master, especially with issues like short stroking, tactical reloads, getting back on target with substantial muzzle blast/flash/muzzle rise, etc),
-the sub2000 empty and unloaded weighs 4lbs versus ~7lbs
-at 29.5" open, it's essentially the same length as my pistol is with arms extended and locked (VZ2008 is 34-35" open),
-it's also friendly for mounting a light/red dot/laser/etc -- I have a fiber optic sight and flashlight only on mine,
-it's easy to mount a light that actually points where you're looking, pistol maneuvers with lights are more complex IMO,
-you can mount a sling which is a major plus for weapon retention,
-and ultimately, it's a weapon that both me and the Mrs are comfortable with and confident using.

Basically, the only thing the VZ58 and Keltec rifles lack that my pistol has is tritium sights.  All HD weapons should have them IMO, but with a mounted light, they're less important...

My current preferences of weapons with rough uses for the personal defense/basic initial personal collection that covers all the bases setups if your curious (this is a value proposition list btw -- the best bang for buck; quality/capability first with cost the secondary consideration -- I approach weapons as such and as a cost-conscious new gun owner you will too; BOTTOM LINES are that trained well on with one weapon is worth 10 in the safe, at least 10 magazines per self defense weapon and 6 for your fun guns, you can never have enough ammo (but a couple thousand rounds/a couple years of recreational needs should be a minimum goal to work towards), don't forget body armor that you'll put on before investigating bumps in the night [like training, body armor and one gun beats no body armor and 10, level 3a minimum, 3+ ideal], you can't and don't want to shoot what you can't see so don't forget weapons lights or a flashlight always at hand, and lastly make sure you have extra springs and critical other spare parts on hand for each self defense weapon you own):
Handgun: 9mms -- Sig 2022, CZ75, Canik 55 Stingray-C (I prefer DA/SA, but for striker the Canik 55 TP 9 and Glock are actually probably preferable and easier for brand new shooters -- stick w/ 9mm and good ammo and you're GTG)
Handgun: 22lr - Bersa 22lr (again, this is DA/SA weapon, for striker practice a Ruger Mark 3 is probably best)
Indoor Home Defense: Keltec Sub2000 9mm, Uzi Rifle or Suomi Rifle or Colt 9mm Carbine (Colt 9mm are blowback not DI actions, same action as Uzi and Keltec, not sure about Suomi) would also swap in here. 
Carbine: VZ58 7.62x39 - primarily intended for outdoors w/in 200 yards, ideally w/in 150 yards; red dot optic
Rifle, 22lr: Can't go wrong with a Ruger 10/22 (especially their 50th anniversary edition, the edition rifle, not just every 10/22 with the sticker) or Marlin Model 60, in that order IMO.
Shotgun: Remington 770 for pump, and Yildiz for O/U sporting.  Don't know crap about or have an autoloader...
--To this point is, generously, the max distance where any civilian in a situation that's not SHTF, WROL, etc, has a legitimate self defense use/need for the above weapon(s)/roles
Rifle: Galil 5.56 Nato - intermediate round, intermediate range; ideally 150-300 yards, but 500 yard capable with standard 55-62gr ammo; 1-6x DMR Optic; ideally any piston-driven AR would swap in, but a direct-impingement AR by a reliable manufacturer is acceptable too...  More effective at longer range with a 68-77 precision round.
Longer Range - K31 7.5 Swiss bolt action; 300-500 ideal, but 500-1000 yard capable; match grade ammo at bulk .308 costs.  New production Remington 700, Winchester 60, or Savage in .308 (or if you want .270 or .30-06) are good alternatives.


Food for thought.

Very well said. This should be posted on every firearms thread. It seems people grab a AR or shotgun as their go to home defense weapon, forgetting that they both require 2 hand operation, are heavy, and have far too much firepower for inside a home (unless you live alone in the country I guess).

I've got my eye on a Sub 2000 sometime in the near future. How picky is yours with ammo? A buddy had one and he said it would only fire hot ammo and not stuff like Winchester white box.

Offline RSR

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #12 on: June 10, 2014, 02:11:01 PM »
I've read posts from years ago where VZ58 parts kits were selling retail for $50 (now ~$300).  It could be that Century bought thousands of them wholesale for just a few dollars each and is now cashing in on it.  If so, it was a good move.  Maybe Palmetto is still making money on the deal.

The rumor I heard was that Century got these parts kits over a decade ago for the $20-30 per kit range, probably the mid-90s after Warsaw Pact implosion and had been sitting on them for a number of years...

Century is good about controlling costs and all of their weapons are priced to basically clear out as soon as they hit retailers -- a volume by impossible to refuse value proposition -- exactly opposite of what Czechpoint's strategy is...

Offline RSR

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #13 on: June 10, 2014, 02:31:20 PM »
Very well said. This should be posted on every firearms thread. It seems people grab a AR or shotgun as their go to home defense weapon, forgetting that they both require 2 hand operation, are heavy, and have far too much firepower for inside a home (unless you live alone in the country I guess).

I've got my eye on a Sub 2000 sometime in the near future. How picky is yours with ammo? A buddy had one and he said it would only fire hot ammo and not stuff like Winchester white box.

I've had good luck with it.  They like to run a little more to the wetter side for lubrication.  I had a few failures to eject with Tul steel case early on in the first 500, but well lubed and broken in the springs/internals, and it seems to feed whatever I put in it.  Granted, the ball I have set aside for it and use most of the time at the range is a Romanian +P that runs hot and dirty, but it runs both the Federal 9BP and 9BPLE fine as well.

Shotguns are devastating and I understand the appeal and go back and forth on the topic, but they're LOUD indoors and cannot be fired nearly as rapidly, unless you port the top of your barrel(s) which then puts flash directly in your sightline ruining your nightvision. 
And in my house, the shotgun (above a .410) is a me weapon, not me and the wife. 
And the shotgun has its fair share of limitations too, despite its devastating firepower.  Unless you have slugs handy, you're limited to within 25 yards only as well as the 6-9 shots before reloading -- I think it was a box of truth where they were shooting 00 buck or maybe another study and anything at 25 foot and beyond only one or two pellets struck a man sized target...  Both inaccurate on target and what's beyond it...  And buckshot also isn't the best at turning cover into concealment.  So you're either switching loads between slugs and shot, or committing one way or the other...
9mm more reliability penetrates drywall, etc, if you need it too -- a potential drawback, but a benefit as well.  My home, I'm shooting away from sleeping areas on 9/10 invasion/defense scenarios. 
Now 5.56 is less likely to penetrate more layers of drywall, but it's also LOUD indoors.  Sub 12" barrels equivalent to flash bang grenades is volume and concussion.

The more I think about shotguns, the more I think a marine deck clearing or trench clearing or last ditch defense or zombie scenario is ideal for the weapon.  Put a duck bill and run #4 in it, and it really can't be matched in those niches -- as a mobile, multi-use claymore; a good weapon to include as a part of greater unit, not standalone... 

I sure as heck wouldn't want to face a shotgun w/in 10 or even 25 yards due to them being so devastating, so the intimidation portion is definitely there but from a defender perspective, if facing more than one or two bad guys alone you're under-gunned (especially if their weapons reach further than your shotgun and they stay beyond 25 yards), unless the head game of knowing that one of them will get the business end of the shotgun stops them...  But do you bet your life on that?

Ultimately, the shotgun works great as an all around hunting/sporting firearm, but I personally have a hard time placing it into a general purpose defensive role.  And from an ammo weight/return perspective here too, much of what a shotgun does can be done more efficiently (by ammo weight/materials/cost) with a 22lr.

I'm afraid I've completely derailed this thread.  Sorry.
« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 03:12:07 PM by RSR »

Offline RSR

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Re: Palmetto State Armory CZ2008 sale....
« Reply #14 on: June 10, 2014, 04:54:14 PM »
OK, forgive the noob question but I am totally new to rifles...

I have been contemplating my first purchase with the goal of building something for for home defense. Would this be a suitable platform to build on?

s0nspark - sorry for the long diatribe, thought that you were new to guns altogether, which scanning through a 2nd time realize you aren't... 

Feel free to disregard 1/2 of my long post, haha.

An added plus of a pistol carbine (I don't currently own any glocks, but the 33rd glock mags are reliable hence my choice there) is ammunition commonality with your handguns. 

More to your needs:

VZ58s are a great starter centerfire rifle cartridge IMO due to relatively mild rifle recoil (compared to AK and full powered rifle cartridges like the .308), good ergos (back to the good bones part -- has been, fairly I think, described as the M1 Carbine of the Warsaw Pact), and the cheap cost of ammo relative to 5.56 (cheaper by 1/3rd) and very cheap cost relative to other common rifle calibers (steel .308 ammo is over twice as expensive per round), excepting rimfire.  You can also hunt hogs and deer humanely with this caliber as well, which IMO you really can't with 5.56. 

So inside the home defense exclusive (or something to teach recoil shy wife/kids/new shooters on), look at a pistol carbine/subgun with stock "rifle" like the sub2k. 

If wanting to move into full power rifle shooting, take a hard look at the VZ58.  Running 154gr rounds, it's 90% of the 30-30 Winchester power and very similar trajectory, etc, otherwise; lever action 30-30s that have been a dominant deer rifle among American sportsmen for generations.   Lighter rounds fly faster, flatter, and have been long proven to be great protection from human predators.

Kids and women can shoot the VZ58 too:



http://olegvolk.net/blog/2011/09/24/shooting-well-at-age-11/

Even under full auto:



« Last Edit: June 10, 2014, 05:18:26 PM by RSR »