Author Topic: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too  (Read 16787 times)

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Offline RSR

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Got this newsletter from SG Ammo today and figured I'd share -- unsure as to how much is alarmist and how much is factual (reads more alarmist than I'd like to see a retail outlet be actually), but might make be prudent to buy another case or two of "just in case" 7.62x39 if you have the funds right now. 

If Russia gets sanctioned on ammo it will take some time for these prices to return to normal as other Eastern European suppliers begin ramping up production to meet the demand -- 7.62x39 WILL NOT become entirely unavailable or abhorrently expensive for any extended period of time barring any initial rush/panic upon sanctions.  Both US and other foreign producers will produce more to meet demand, but it will be more expensive but shouldn't be as much so current 7.62x39 Winchester and the like US producers' prices or as expensive as the non-magnetic offerings of other premium 7.62x39 producures as the volume would increase which should lower as well as other Eastern European ammo factories begin pumping out steel case low, but not as low as Russian $, on their ammo.   
(The reason Russian ammo is so cheap is their steel and other natural resources are overabundant and accordingly cheap compared to elsewhere, no small amount due Soviet-era stockpiles -- and for Eastern European countries with "armor piercing" surplus it's currently not cost-effective to pull and replace bullets to allow for US import...  Other countries also can't compete with Russia's rock bottom prices for new production as their natural resources are more expensive, so that's why we don't see much ammo from many other alternative Eastern Europe producers like we do with some of the cheaper 5.56 and 9mm brass).

FYI, the LCW factory makes Red Army Standard ammo and made the non-magnetic wolf (ukraine) ammo as well as some of the wolf steel like this one: http://www.sgammo.com/product/wolf-performance-ammunition/1000-round-case-762x39-hollow-point-123-grain-wolf-performance-a

(Also 5.56 Nato looks to be about the cheapest you'll see it for awhile too due oversupply/glut orders that are just being fulfilled that were placed during the market peak rush -- per SG Ammo their 5.56 currently in stock is ~$20 per item cheaper than current wholesale.)

http://www.sgammo.com/special-purchase-ammo-556-lake-city-xm855-federal-223-12-gauge-buckshot-and-more

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Below are a few items that I thought were of good value and worth your consideration. For AK shooters, given the escalation of violence in the Russia/Ukraine conflict, if you are in need of ammo I recommend stocking up on steel case 7.62x39 and 5.45x39 calibers while prices are down. The Ukrainian Factory LCW is now under sanctions and it was recently captured and now controlled by rebels as their civil war rages. We will no longer be able to get ammo from that source. This leaves only Russia as a source for low cost ammo used by recreational shooters of these calibers and it is possible supply could be effected if the war continues and foreign relations with Russia worsen.  Alternative manufacturers of these calibers come at a much higher cost which takes a lot of the fun out of shooting a high volume of ammo at the range. We also have many other interesting items of good value on our website so please take a few minutes and look over the online catalog at www.SGAmmo.com

WARNING: DON'T BE THE PERSON THAT WAITED TO BUY 7.62X39 AMMO AS PRICES ARE STILL DOWN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RANGE TODAY. ALL OF THE MAJOR AMMUNITION FACTORIES IN RUSSIA ARE STATE-OWNED ENTERPRISES (OWNED BY THE RUSSIAN GOVERNMENT) OPERATING IN THE ARMS INDUSTRY WHICH MAKES THEM LIKELY TARGETS FOR SANCTIONS BY OUR GOVERNMENT AS A PENALTY OVER THE UKRAINE WAR. IF A FUTURE ROUND OF SANCTIONS TARGETS THESE FACTORIES THEN AVAILABILITY WILL FALL TO ZERO AND PRICES WILL SOAR IMMEDIATELY ON WHAT AMMO CAN BE FOUND.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2014, 07:36:49 PM by RSR »

Offline jwc007

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2014, 02:22:14 AM »
Not seeing any increase in prices for 7.62x39mm as yet.  Just took delivery of 1000 rounds of Wolf Military Classsic FMJ.

While we know that the Kalashnikov Concern has been specifically targeted with a Sanction, I've not heard of a specific Russian Ammunition Company being targeted with a sanction, as yet.

As for the delicious glut of 5.56mm available, the US Military/DOD and NATO have now switched over to the M855A1 version, thereby making obsolete the older M855 version, the latter of which has been surplussed out for sale to the open market.  I bought 1000 rounds each of Federal/Lake City M855 and Australian M855, about 3 months ago. 

I also bought 1000 rounds of Federal/Lake City M193, about a Month ago, and I believe that this had probably been made available by Federal/Lake City catching up with orders.

I've seen Gun Show Ammunition Vendors trying to drum up some panic that just isn't there..........yet.  I don't believe there's any reason for concern as yet, and I find it annoying for some vendors to try ginning it up.  ::)

For now, we will just have to keep an eye on our current "Regime" to see exactly what they do.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 02:31:32 AM by jwc007 »
"Easy is the path to wisdom for those not blinded by ego." - Yoda


For all of those killed by a 9mm: "Get up! You are not dead! You were shot with a useless cartridge!"

Offline RSR

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2014, 07:22:01 PM »
jwc007 -- totally agree. 

Like I said, just a heads up.  Usually the "intelligence" on the wholesale ammo market from SG Ammo is fair and accurate.  This struck me as "alarmist," but after this past year or two of not having as much ammo on hand as I might otherwise like (and paying a hefty premium for it) I thought I'd throw this out if anyone else had extra $$$ they were looking to put to use as a little extra insurance and/or hedge against price inflation and/or an investment...

This pretty much covers it about the M855A1, a debacle not far removed from the UCP camo -- didn't realize that was contributing to the surplus however: http://www.gunsandammo.com/uncategorized/m855a1-should-it-be-the-new-round-for-soldiers-and-marines/

And bear in mind that DESERT Marpat camo outperformed the UCP in woodland settings by over 40 meters in detection distance:
« Last Edit: August 07, 2014, 08:31:43 PM by RSR »

Offline Enthusiasm

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2014, 02:01:56 AM »
I don't know guys,
My money says the Russian Ammo/Arms Supply will go away and never return, Just like the Chinese ammo.
 I don't think it's an "it could happen". It's HAPPENING!!
Things are not De-escalating overseas. 
If you want it you better buy it. 

Offline CitizenPete

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #4 on: August 10, 2014, 04:53:02 PM »
Maintaining a stash of Russian ammo in 7.62x54R (54R, Russian rimmed) and 7.62x39 (M43, M67 7.62 short. ) is always a good idea.  Just replenished a few thousand rounds, as some of you have too.  Prices were ok, and most of it was either Military Classic, Golden Tiger,  WPA, and Barnaul manufactured? Brown Bear. All Russian I believe.

There will probably always be 5.56/223 to pickup but the combloc stuff may dry up faster esp. in a USSA civil conflict (aka gov. false flag) or a global conflict situation (aka false flag).

Since the Obummer Regime was directed to over-through and support the Ukraine, plus countries like Bulgaria, Hungary, CZ, etc. are still under the thumb of NATO.  They all still have military surplus and plenty manufacturing. 

As far as RSRs cammo chart, IMO real Flectarn from Germany  (manufactured in Tunisia) beats them all in Ohio where I live.
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline RSR

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #5 on: August 11, 2014, 12:03:36 AM »
Sorry -- didn't mean to derail the thread.  My point was more illustrating that the US military's bureaucracy has become like that of every other agency where protocol and internal politics trumps effectiveness. 
In regards to camo, if you have an interest check out: http://www.hyperstealth.com/camo-improvement/
Hyperstealth's facebook page is also great -- they and the multicam folks the two primary companies in adoption rates.  A-Tacs and Penncott and Kryptek seem to be more of a just US domestic presence... 

My personal favorite military camo for Central is the Italian Vegetato woodland.  It's just rare, expensive and most trousers are Eurocut (tight crotch).  Much more ideal than multicam IMO:

I grew up in Ohio and agree Flecktarn is a good 3 season camo with the greater amount of browns.  But I prefer British DPM in Ohio summer...  Cadpat would probably beat both in a head to head during late spring & summer though...

Here's a good comparison of the Flecktarn and Vegetato:


Another good Vegetato and Penncott camo (mohawk ginger has the Vegetato):



**EDIT: Vegetato comes in woodland and desert, these are the woodland varieties in the videos.  Basically swapping the olive drab or similar green for a lighter tan.  Believe other 2 colors stay the same but in different concentrations.  Keep Shooting has examples of both in stock: http://www.keepshooting.com/catalogsearch/result/?q=vegetato
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 11:26:04 PM by RSR »

Offline CitizenPete

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2014, 11:19:41 AM »
The second vid was good. In reality if I wore pure white or city Camo all year in Northern Ohio I would be good for at least 8 months. ;) Seriously considering painting one of the VZ2008 rifles white.



BTW, @RSR (as this thread now takes another perpendicular turn  :o ...)
My guess is that you have a few of the Max Velocity paperbacks.  I'm just finishing patriot Dawn and added Contact! and Rapid Fire to my reference collection.  The biggest thing I think I learned and got out of reading Patriot Dawn is the fact that I'm an old out of shape bastard that could possible contribute a bit as cannon fodder.  Good stuff ... IMHO everyone needs grab a copy of Contact! as a go to tactical reference.  If I thought I could survive a class without stroking out I would definitely head to VA for a course or two.  I saw he is geared up for upcoming NV tactical classes.  BTW, thanks for the original URL link that you passed off to me. Cheers.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 03:11:38 PM by CitizenPete »
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline CitizenPete

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2014, 03:15:14 PM »
So back to the original topic... Ammo  :P

I use search engines like ammoseek, etc. and I am trying to find a pallet of 5.56 for under .30 per round delivered to NE Ohio. Prefer green tip 62gr.  Anyone seen any deals close to this?
CP

The post above is opinion, and I am probably totally wrong, so please pardon me if I offend anyone in any way. I am speaking only for myself and just sharing my thoughts, not trying to start an argument with anyone, and if you disagree with anything I have said, I concede your correct.

Offline jdubya87

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2014, 04:15:59 PM »
So back to the original topic... Ammo  :P

I use search engines like ammoseek, etc. and I am trying to find a pallet of 5.56 for under .30 per round delivered to NE Ohio. Prefer green tip 62gr.  Anyone seen any deals close to this?

Supposedly there is one vendor who is selling Romanian brass cased 62 grn for something close to 32 delivered I want to say. Give it time, there is still a little ways for prices to fall.

As far as 7.62, I'm going to ask a couple of the wholesalers to see if they can get Sellier and Bellot steel case or maybe some Bumar 5.56 (Polish). Honestly I hate giving any money to the Russians, even if it is good ammo.

Offline RSR

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2014, 11:19:33 PM »
wikiarms - click 223Rem - uncheck steel - uncheck reloads - CTRL+F and search for "62"

OR
 
wikiarms - search box = '62' - click search - results return - drop down for "Caliber" select 223

*Wikiarms has truly made my ammo searching so much more efficient.  You can also setup email alerts so it tells you when ammo prices are good to go...

Search is particularly effective for stuff like 68-77gr OTMs and finding best prices there (FWIW, the Hornady 75 gr steel is the cheapest in these weights at $370-$500 per thousand; otherwise, you're looking at the PPU match brass case loadings in the 40-60 cent per round range)

The lowest 62gr brass is from BuyGunsandAmmo, and it's the Romanian Mil-Spec stuff (true milspec sealants etc) that jdubya87 mentioned.  Should be the same stuff as the HotShot Romanian brass that's usually priced a little higher.
http://buygunsandammo.com/product/5-56-62gr-fmj-ss109-penetrator-sealed-brass-case
$325 per thousand -- reviews I've seen have been good and the sealed ammo is definitely appealing.

Other good options:
-SG Ammo has the AMA Denex 62gr at $340/thousand -- believe it has sealed primer and packaged on (plastic) stripper clips and in sealed plastic so moisture proof regardless; bought a case but still sealed tight and haven't shot.  Have seen it in Academy Sports, Walmart and elsewhere for ~$500 per thousand...
-Wideners has IMI 62 gr at $400/thousand ($479 per 1200)
-Wideners also has IMI 55 gr at $380/thousand ($455 per 1200, IMO this is the best 5.56 mil surp ammo deal going & accurate too -- up there with Black Hills)

-Not quite milspec, but moreso than their steel, but Wolf Gold 55gr has been running $310 per thousand.  PMC, various Federal, PPU, Fiocchi, and Bosnian Igman (this 62gr) are in the price range too.  Personally, I'd prefer the Romanian to Igman based upon what I've seen others post.

Remember that all if not most of the Lake City stuff isn't actually milsurp.  You're lucky if the primers are sealed and the case necks rarely have the milspec tar sealant.  IMI stuff at Wideners is all actually milspec that I've seen.  Occasionally, you'll see independence or winchester IMI on sale, but that's rare.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2014, 11:37:51 PM by RSR »

Offline RSR

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #10 on: August 13, 2014, 12:34:47 AM »
P.S.  Why, generally speaking, I prefer 55gr to 62 inside 300 yards and heavier open tips beyond that:

http://www.razoreye.net/mirror/ammo-oracle/AR15_com_Ammo_Oracle_Mirror.htm

http://www.ar15.com/content/page.html?id=210

Offline RSR

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #11 on: August 13, 2014, 01:16:18 AM »
BTW, @RSR (as this thread now takes another perpendicular turn  :o ...)
My guess is that you have a few of the Max Velocity paperbacks.  I'm just finishing patriot Dawn and added Contact! and Rapid Fire to my reference collection.  The biggest thing I think I learned and got out of reading Patriot Dawn is the fact that I'm an old out of shape bastard that could possible contribute a bit as cannon fodder.  Good stuff ... IMHO everyone needs grab a copy of Contact! as a go to tactical reference.  If I thought I could survive a class without stroking out I would definitely head to VA for a course or two.  I saw he is geared up for upcoming NV tactical classes.  BTW, thanks for the original URL link that you passed off to me. Cheers.

I have read Max's novel and am only part way through (not actively, on the bookshelf) his Contact!.  I think it's certainly a great perspective and one our military needs (infantry tactics these days are vehicle heavy, technology dependent, and seemed to be operating from the assumption that America will always dominate the battlefield) and about the only folks still practicing light infantry tactics of this variety of which I'm aware are the Green Berets and the Army Rangers -- and perhaps the Marines (don't know enough about that service to say with any certainty).  The Army Special Warfare Manual and Ranger Handbook cover much of the same ground.  His blog and its forum has some interesting reads -- find myself there about monthly.  Also, being in Ohio, you should definitely look at doing one of his courses.  They sound pretty unique and are on my someday wish list for sure. 

Offline RSR

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #12 on: August 13, 2014, 01:47:15 AM »
The second vid was good. In reality if I wore pure white or city Camo all year in Northern Ohio I would be good for at least 8 months. ;) Seriously considering painting one of the VZ2008 rifles white.




I think the VZ Gray is pretty awesome in that respect.  Blends in with natural tree trunk colors in the woods, in urban settings it's universal, and in the winter you still have the trees and it's much closer to the environment than black... 

I personally would go with that fellow's wrap option over gray, but if it was SHTF when I needed that degree of camo, I wouldn't hesitate to rattle can my weapon for every season...

Offline JDA70

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Re: 7.62x39 Ammo Availability -- 5.56 looks to be the cheapest it'll be too
« Reply #13 on: August 14, 2014, 04:52:33 PM »


One of my favorite channels for camo right here.
Cool guy.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Brent0331
If you keep doing what you've been doing, you'll keep getting what you've been getting.

Offline RSR

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