Author Topic: Accu Shadow is officially illegal for IDPA  (Read 15039 times)

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Offline Canuck44

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Re: Accu Shadow is officially illegal for IDPA
« Reply #45 on: October 18, 2014, 12:12:13 PM »
Canuck, that's not quite the whole story.  The Shadows are still being brought into the U.S..  They're just being called Shadow Blacks now.  Unlike the Target and the Accu-Shadow, the Shadow Black actually has the same SKU as the "old" base model Shadow -- 91705.  It's the same gun.   And it's in stock right now at CZC for $850.  I actually bought a base Shadow upper 5 or 6 months ago.  ;)

Great!  The SP-01 Shadow is an excellent buy.  The gun I had would outperform anything I was capable of.  With a 13# hammer spring the DA trigger pull was very light and smooth.  It could be brought down with a trigger job nut the gain was pretty small vs actual performance playing the games when the gun was in my hand.  I prefer the lighter non FLDC guns but that is just a personal preference - I think they balance better.

Take Care

Bob
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Offline Canuck44

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Re: Accu Shadow is officially illegal for IDPA
« Reply #46 on: October 19, 2014, 01:44:29 AM »
Canuck, that's not quite the whole story.  The Shadows are still being brought into the U.S..  They're just being called Shadow Blacks now.  Unlike the Target and the Accu-Shadow, the Shadow Black actually has the same SKU as the "old" base model Shadow -- 91705.  It's the same gun.  And it's in stock right now at CZC for $850.  I actually bought a base Shadow upper 5 or 6 months ago.  ;)

I just looked again.  While the gun is listed they are out of stock with no known arrival date.  Might be awhile given CZ USA doesn't list them.

Too bad really because they are great guns with excellent value.

Bob
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Offline Camo_Man

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Re: Accu Shadow is officially illegal for IDPA
« Reply #47 on: November 18, 2014, 04:02:06 PM »
Hi I am new and late to the game so to speak. I'm interested in competing in both or either IDPA and/or  USPSA. I have been asking around and can't seem to get an answer from anyone if I can use either a SP-01 and / or SP-01 Tactical in either association.  If anyone could help me out I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!

Alpha Sierra

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Re: Accu Shadow is officially illegal for IDPA
« Reply #48 on: November 18, 2014, 05:10:46 PM »
Hi I am new and late to the game so to speak. I'm interested in competing in both or either IDPA and/or  USPSA. I have been asking around and can't seem to get an answer from anyone if I can use either a SP-01 and / or SP-01 Tactical in either association.  If anyone could help me out I would greatly appreciate it. Thanks!
Yes, you absolutely can.  The SP-01 and the SP-01 Tactical both meet the requirements for IDPA's Stock Service Pistol and Enhanced Service Pistol divisions.  As far as USPSA goes, both are on the approved pistol list for Production Division and are of course OK to use in the Limited Division.

You just have to make sure to read the rule book of whatever organization you want to compete in BEFORE you make any modification to a factory-configuration pistol.

The Accu Shadow problem came about because IDPA decided that Accu Shadow is not a factory handgun because they do not consider CZ Custom to be an OEM.  That has nothing to do with unmodified handguns made by CZUB and sold by CZ-USA.

Offline Canuck44

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Re: Accu Shadow is officially illegal for IDPA
« Reply #49 on: November 18, 2014, 05:16:28 PM »
Link to a very long thread about this subject.
In my opinion the Accushadow should be legal in ESP, but not in SSP (because of the slide modifications and the bushing is exposed externally.)
Those are not modifications, those are standard characteristics of that model.  The Accu-Shadow is, by the IDPA definition of an OEM product, an OEM product.

The IDPA rulebook is rife with contradictions, this being the latest and arguably the most egregious.

Wrong!  The gun must be a product made by CZ not a custom gun cobbled together by a Custom Gun Maker using modififed CZ slides and frame'.  The gun must meet meet SSP rules.  One of which there must be 2,000 of them made and you can bet there are not 2,000 examples made, yet.    If you don;t know what the equipment rules are for IDPA you ought to look them up before you type.  The only egregious item is your post.  Sorry to be blunt but commenting on the rules of a sport when you have apparently little knowledge just spreads both ill will and misinformation.

The CZ Accushadow is not listed as being a catalog item in the CZ UB Catalog nor are some of the other CZ Custom guns.  While USPSA allows some of them into their Production Division, IPSC doesn't.   


Take Care

Bob   

« Last Edit: November 18, 2014, 05:22:48 PM by Canuck44 »
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Offline Canuck44

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Re: Accu Shadow is officially illegal for IDPA
« Reply #50 on: November 18, 2014, 05:44:20 PM »
All CZ Custom has to do is convince CZ-USA to add it to their web site with the other competition models.  Sell some through the dealer network.  Have CZ-USA confirm that 2000 have been produced.  True or not they will not ask CZ for proof of the production numbers.  It's not what the Accu-Shadow is.  It's who sells the Accu-Shadow.

All that has been done, see my analysis and conclusion below:
From the IDPA rulebook, this is the only definition of what an OEM (original equipment manufacturer) pistol is:
"...With respect to slide machining, SSP, ESP and CDP, Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) firearms with extensive slide machining are approved for use in IDPA if they meet all other
 requirements for their respective Divisions. For slide machining, an OEM product is defined as a complete firearm product, with specific model part numbers or skus catalogued as stock items by the manufacturer and have a minimum annual production of 2,000 units for that specific model."

Let's review if the Accushadow meets the definition of an OEM product......
1) A complete firearm product - Why yes, when you buy the Accushadow you get a pistol, not a box of parts or add-ons

2) With specific model part numbers or skus cataloged as stock items by the manufacturer - Why yes, SKU 91730 right from CZ-USA's website: http://cz-usa.com/product/cz-75-sp-01-accu-shadow-9mm-black-3x18-rd-mags-by-cz-custom/

3) Have a minimum production run of 2000 units for that specific model: Why yes, if the Accushadow did not meet the 2000 pc minimum it would not be approved by USPSA as a Production gun

So the AccuShadow meets the OEM product definition, but IDPA rules it illegal on some other arbitrary definition, while they let slide all the S&W Performance Center and PRO Series pistols.

It wouldn't have anything to do with all the money S&W pours into IDPA?

1. OEM is Original Equipment Manufacture not what you decide to make it.  CZ Custom is not CZ UB. 
2.  If the gun had 2,000 copies made CZ Custom would say so and it hasn't but it still moot read point 1.
3  CZ USA is not the manufacture of the gun but rather the US Distributor for CZ and CZ Custom guns.  The Accu-Shadow is made by the latter.  The Accushadow does not appear as a product made by CZ UB of the Czech Republic.

Get over it.  You are wrong and no matter how many times you repeat it you will still be wrong.  Nor does it matter much.  The gun is illegal and won;t play in IDPA.  Those who buy it should know that.

IDPA applied the rules as written.  Get CZ UB to make the gun and sign a statement they have produced 2,000 of the guns and you will be good to go.  BTW where is the gun listed as being made.  Made in the USA or Made in the Czech Republic?

Take Care

Bob

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Offline joepau1k

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Re: Accu Shadow is officially illegal for IDPA
« Reply #51 on: November 18, 2014, 08:12:44 PM »
It's still the coolest gun for steel at any competition!


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Offline Camo_Man

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Re: Accu Shadow is officially illegal for IDPA
« Reply #52 on: November 18, 2014, 10:01:06 PM »
Thanks Alpha Sierra! Really appreciate your help! Any thoughts as to which one (SP-01 or Tactical) is better for competition? Or is it just personal preference?


Alpha Sierra

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Re: Accu Shadow is officially illegal for IDPA
« Reply #53 on: November 18, 2014, 10:13:18 PM »
Thanks Alpha Sierra! Really appreciate your help! Any thoughts as to which one (SP-01 or Tactical) is better for competition? Or is it just personal preference?
It's personal preference.  Either one can be tuned to have a very sweet trigger pull.

I prefer decockers because I compete in divisions where you have to start DA on the first shot and I am still leery of lowering the hammer by hand on the safety equipped pistols.