Author Topic: Please follow this link for an announcement  (Read 9698 times)

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Offline armoredman

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Offline armoredman

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2015, 01:08:11 PM »
Scorpion Factory Stock to be Made Available This Summer
Since the release of the CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 Pistol in October of 2014, CZ-USA has received many inquiries about the availability of the factory folding stock. It has always been CZ-USA’s intention to make the stock available to the public as soon as practicable.
Obviously, an approved Form 1 is required to convert the CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 Pistol into an SBR. The ATF has informed us that 922r does apply, and their official parts count for the Scorpion Pistol is 16 parts. CZ-USA is currently in the process of manufacturing a number of US-made parts which we intend to sell both individually and as part of a kit to ensure that individuals manufacturing SBRs have the means to comply with 922r.
We’re also working closely with a number of US manufacturers to ensure a variety of US-made parts are available from sources other than CZ-USA. That being said, until more qualifying 922r compliance parts are available from aftermarket sources, the factory stock will only be available as part of the kit including the required compliance parts.
We expect to begin selling the stocks as part of a 922r compliance kit in late summer (earlier if at all possible).
Retail cost of the compliance kit will be very reasonable, ensuring that a CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 SBR will remain one of the most reasonably priced pistol-caliber carbines available to the public.

Offline RSR

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2015, 12:04:13 AM »
Great news!

Offline rchrds

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2015, 08:47:38 PM »
Awesome! Great way to go about it!

Offline DDNC

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2015, 11:50:02 PM »
The stock will not be a compliant piece. It is evidently going to be the latest style with the rubber butt piece and magnetic latch. That's cool with me. I just hope CZ will not sell these kits unless you have an approved F1. Why?, because if you aren't going to SBR it you don't need a stock, as a pistol you don't need to play 922. So for those needing this will be able to get it.
evo 3 s1 pistol sbr kit 922r max slowik
The EVO 3S1 pistol SBR kit. (Photo: CZ-USA)

CZ-USA has announced plans to introduce a 922r-compliant stock kit for the EVO 3 to build short-barreled rifles, or SBRs. Due to certain import restrictions, rifles may only have so many components made outside of the U.S. so the kit includes additional parts needed to build an SBR.

“Obviously, an approved Form 1 is required to convert the CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 Pistol into an SBR,” CZ-USA said. “The ATF has informed us that 922r does apply, and their official parts count for the Scorpion Pistol is 16 parts. CZ-USA is currently in the process of manufacturing a number of US-made parts which we intend to sell both individually and as part of a kit to ensure that individuals manufacturing SBRs have the means to comply with 922r.”

The stock itself is not one of the compliancy components. It is the real deal, made in the Czech Republic and is identical to the stocks on Scorpion submachine guns. This is welcome news for anyone who picked up an EVO 3 S1 pistol with the long-term intent of building a short-barreled rifle.

CZ14_Scorpion_EVO3_S1-L-e1416840329704-500x269
The pistol in its import config. (Photo: CZ-USA)

This means that users buying the parts individually may convert existing magazines or build an SBR using their pistol brace adapter and any AR stock, including foreign-made stocks, using a carbine buffer tube. CZ-USA expects to have the parts available by late fall but will put them up for sale as soon as possible.

While the final list of American-made parts is still in the air, CZ-USA told Guns.com that they would probably include a replacement grip, trigger, disconnector, muzzle device and magazine follower and floorplate.

Of course there could be some changes between today and when the kit is released, but ultimately the result will be the same: 922r-compliant CZ Scorpion SBRs. The final list of components will likely be optimized for ease of manufacture and low production cost.

“Retail cost of the compliance kit will be very reasonable, ensuring that a CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 SBR will remain one of the most reasonably priced pistol-caliber carbines available to the public,” added CZ-USA.

The Scorpion pistol by itself has an MSRP of $849, though thanks to high demand can sometimes cost a little more. This, naturally, will ensure that the CZ Scorpion EVO 3 S1 will be in even more demand, especially this summer.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2015, 11:53:30 PM by DDNC »

Offline armoredman

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2015, 02:45:25 PM »
Absolutely, thank you for that follow up. I for one, am VERY interested in turning my little Scorpion into an SBR, "just because".

Offline Hairlesswookiee

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2015, 02:39:30 PM »
If they can sell the kit for under $300 I'm in for 2....just because. I don't need 2 SBR, but they sure do look fun to shoot.

Offline ShootersElement

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2015, 12:21:37 PM »
If they can sell the kit for under $300 I'm in for 2....just because. I don't need 2 SBR, but they sure do look fun to shoot.

$300!!! That's a third of the MSRP cost...good god I hope it's not that much. If they can make mags for $18.95 then I'm sure a stock and a couple of parts can't be $300...

The stock will not be a compliant piece. It is evidently going to be the latest style with the rubber butt piece and magnetic latch. That's cool with me. I just hope CZ will not sell these kits unless you have an approved F1. Why?, because if you aren't going to SBR it you don't need a stock, as a pistol you don't need to play 922. So for those needing this will be able to get it.

Whoa slow down there, I don't know about you but CZ is in the business of making guns not checking peoples paperwork and stamps. let's not turn them into a regulatory arm of the ATF. I think they've made it perfectly clear that you need to have a form 1 in order to convert your stuff to an SBR. Aside from that, they have no legal obligation to enforce the law nor should they attempt to. Moreover, I'm not really comfortable with the idea of sending personal financial info (trusts and LLC's specifically) along with a government approved form to a 3rd party just to buy a product. We have enough bureaucratic hoops to jump through in this country I am not in favor of adding more.
« Last Edit: April 29, 2015, 12:50:56 PM by ShootersElement »
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Offline DDNC

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2015, 04:04:07 PM »


The stock will not be a compliant piece. It is evidently going to be the latest style with the rubber butt piece and magnetic latch. That's cool with me. I just hope CZ will not sell these kits unless you have an approved F1. Why?, because if you aren't going to SBR it you don't need a stock, as a pistol you don't need to play 922. So for those needing this will be able to get it.

Whoa slow down there, I don't know about you but CZ is in the business of making guns not checking peoples paperwork and stamps. let's not turn them into a regulatory arm of the ATF. I think they've made it perfectly clear that you need to have a form 1 in order to convert your stuff to an SBR. Aside from that, they have no legal obligation to enforce the law nor should they attempt to. Moreover, I'm not really comfortable with the idea of sending personal financial info (trusts and LLC's specifically) along with a government approved form to a 3rd party just to buy a product. We have enough bureaucratic hoops to jump through in this country I am not in favor of adding more.
If they did not have a legal obligation for such then why such a big deal for the stock from CZ to begin with? CZ made a big stink about 922r to cover their a** so if they are in only the business to sell guns then it would make zero difference but to them it apparently does, replete with writing ATF asking so. Therefore, they most likely will do like wise when offering a non 922 compliant item which can only be used for NFA purposes (currently) as well as making the EVO then,  992r in need of compliance. In their defense they are probably going to avoid liability rather than incur it. They are also not enforcing law as they cannot but liability is a different issue. There are importers/vendors currently that request proof of 5320.1 approval before selling certain items for that exact reason. What exactly that consists of, I don't know but like I said if you are not making an SBR there is no need for a stock as currently there are no extensions or 16 inch barrels available and the attachment of a stock, regardless of manufacture not only applies NFA to your gun but now 922r as well. This may be what they are thinking about. Personally, I have a stock and an approved 5320.1 so its not an issue for me but as difficult as it is to get 30 round mags, which does not fall into either NFA or 922 many folks will be really put out if they cannot secure a stock for their approved piece. I think the entire issue is not only moronic but unconstitutional as well but it is what it is.

Offline ShootersElement

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2015, 05:26:35 PM »


The stock will not be a compliant piece. It is evidently going to be the latest style with the rubber butt piece and magnetic latch. That's cool with me. I just hope CZ will not sell these kits unless you have an approved F1. Why?, because if you aren't going to SBR it you don't need a stock, as a pistol you don't need to play 922. So for those needing this will be able to get it.

Whoa slow down there, I don't know about you but CZ is in the business of making guns not checking peoples paperwork and stamps. let's not turn them into a regulatory arm of the ATF. I think they've made it perfectly clear that you need to have a form 1 in order to convert your stuff to an SBR. Aside from that, they have no legal obligation to enforce the law nor should they attempt to. Moreover, I'm not really comfortable with the idea of sending personal financial info (trusts and LLC's specifically) along with a government approved form to a 3rd party just to buy a product. We have enough bureaucratic hoops to jump through in this country I am not in favor of adding more.
If they did not have a legal obligation for such then why such a big deal for the stock from CZ to begin with? CZ made a big stink about 922r to cover their a** so if they are in only the business to sell guns then it would make zero difference but to them it apparently does, replete with writing ATF asking so. Therefore, they most likely will do like wise when offering a non 922 compliant item which can only be used for NFA purposes (currently) as well as making the EVO then,  992r in need of compliance. In their defense they are probably going to avoid liability rather than incur it. They are also not enforcing law as they cannot but liability is a different issue. There are importers/vendors currently that request proof of 5320.1 approval before selling certain items for that exact reason. What exactly that consists of, I don't know but like I said if you are not making an SBR there is no need for a stock as currently there are no extensions or 16 inch barrels available and the attachment of a stock, regardless of manufacture not only applies NFA to your gun but now 922r as well. This may be what they are thinking about. Personally, I have a stock and an approved 5320.1 so its not an issue for me but as difficult as it is to get 30 round mags, which does not fall into either NFA or 922 many folks will be really put out if they cannot secure a stock for their approved piece. I think the entire issue is not only moronic but unconstitutional as well but it is what it is.

You answered the question.

CZ made a big stink about 922r to cover their a**

That is the only reason they are going to offer the kit. Because when someone does something illegal and gets caught that person will point it back to CZ and if they don't have a kit that makes it 922r compliant then they are going to be in trouble along with that person.

Also, enforcing a law here in the US falls on the shoulders of .GOV not CZ.

To me this is more about legal protection from potential trouble with the ATF and .GOV then offering a 922R product. They know the stock will sell like hot cakes here (that's a given), but to sell it without the 922R options could be seen as creating an opportunity for folks (knowingly or otherwise) to create an SBR without the proper approval and the compliance parts.

Regardless, I really don't want to turn a gun manufacturer (and a foreign one at that) into a regulatory arm of our .GOV. It's not their job and it's not what they are good at, they make awesome guns and accessories...let's all take responsibility for our own actions and let the law judge those that don't follow it for theirs.

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Offline pedro66

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #10 on: April 30, 2015, 01:04:13 AM »
Your approved form 1 is a TAX form the only entity entitled to demand view of it is the ATF nobody else is entitled to see it as its a private taxation matter so firearm manufacturers demanding to see your tax information is really not good, especially when they say they will not serve you with a product unless you do show them, kind of like gay weddings and pizza

I had the SBR and 922r discussion with CZ LEO rep long ago it went something like "So what if there is a 922r question the only person involved is the person making the item" Procession of a non 922r is not an offense neither is supplying parts to do so especially unregulated parts at that, it has been proven time and again that going after manufacturers of items used illegally will not fly, If the CZUSA logic were sound then surely supplying a EVO pistol that has mounts for a stock is allowing the manufacture of a non 922r item as has been shown by guys using the airsoft items there has been no attempt by the manufacturer to stop non 922r parts being fitted if CZUSA were that concerned they should of shipped a version of the EVO without the stock mount dovetails

And seeing as it is not fitting a stock that triggers the completion of a NFA approved SBR but the fitting of a barrel to a NFA registered receiver or even possession of a under 16" barrel and the receiver then ALL SBR EVO are technically not 922r compliant the moment that the form 1 is approved because thats when your EVO becomes an SBR not when you receive the form 1 and eventually fit the stock, the only way around it is to remove the barrel and store it out of your control before your form 1 is submitted.

(One of the only times fitting the stock triggers SBR is when you don't have an approved form 1 and you fit a stock to a receiver with a barrel length under 16" as I have said many times before the EVO is not an AR15 where the barrel can be easily swapped or removed from the registered receiver to change the designation)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 02:38:45 AM by pedro66 »

Offline Shady

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #11 on: April 30, 2015, 05:56:20 AM »
your right they cant demand you show them the doc but they also have the right to refuse service to people. And in this case where scalpers are going to step in and buy multiple stocks for the sole reason to flip them at a profit.I would also like to see CZ stand up for there real customers and at least for the first few months limit the sales in some way. Be it by registered SN's on the guns, or even the extreme of showing an approved form 1 I dont care if you cut out your name and address but it should have the SN of the gun and the approved stamp in the copy provided and only 1 stock per SN. Again after a month or so open the flood gates. I still have 30-60 days for my stamp to come in so Hold off that long before you implement the plan LOL

Your approved form 1 is a TAX form the only entity entitled to demand view of it is the ATF nobody else is entitled to see it as its a private taxation matter so firearm manufacturers demanding to see your tax information is really not good, especially when they say they will not serve you with a product unless you do show them, kind of like gay weddings and pizza

I had the SBR and 922r discussion with CZ LEO rep long ago it went something like "So what if there is a 922r question the only person involved is the person making the item" Procession of a non 922r is not an offense neither is supplying parts to do so especially unregulated parts at that, it has been proven time and again that going after manufacturers of items used illegally will not fly, If the CZUSA logic were sound then surely supplying a EVO pistol that has mounts for a stock is allowing the manufacture of a non 922r item as has been shown by guys using the airsoft items there has been no attempt by the manufacturer to stop non 922r parts being fitted if CZUSA were that concerned they should of shipped a version of the EVO without the stock mount dovetails

And seeing as it is not fitting a stock that triggers the completion of a NFA approved SBR but the fitting of a barrel to a NFA registered receiver or even possession of a under 16" barrel and the receiver then ALL SBR EVO are technically not 922r compliant the moment that the form 1 is approved because thats when your EVO becomes an SBR not when you receive the form 1 and eventually fit the stock, the only way around it is to remove the barrel and store it out of your control before your form 1 is submitted.

(One of the only times fitting the stock triggers SBR is when you don't have an approved form 1 and you fit a stock to a receiver with a barrel length under 16" as I have said many times before the EVO is not an AR15 where the barrel can be easily swapped or removed from the registered receiver to change the designation)

Offline pedro66

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2015, 02:33:33 PM »
Of course they have the right to refuse service but to base that on your refusal to show them something that they are not entitled to see is not really fair they are saying the parts will be US made parts so 922r compliant so then whatever you do with them they cannot be held accountable for you violating 922r

Offline Shady

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #13 on: April 30, 2015, 04:02:24 PM »
What is fair is a matter of opinion.

 I feel its very fair to see that people who can actually use the items get first crack at them from the manufacturer and not a scalper. I could care less about them being held accountable for misuse of a product  they make. Its not CZ's fault if you dont play by the rules in making a SBR.


Of course they have the right to refuse service but to base that on your refusal to show them something that they are not entitled to see is not really fair they are saying the parts will be US made parts so 922r compliant so then whatever you do with them they cannot be held accountable for you violating 922r

Offline DDNC

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Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2015, 04:07:18 PM »
In the end it's probably academic. The only thing people want from CZ is the stock. Manticore arms will most likely be providing all the 922 parts anyway, including a stock. Not sure what the stock will look like but MA makes good quality items and has a penchant for this exact type item. I support them 100%. For the record I ain't showing any non ATF personnel a form 1 unless it is heavily redacted to buy an item or anything else for that matter and remind them that they are unauthorized to make such a request and I would do so only at MY convenience.
« Last Edit: April 30, 2015, 04:09:57 PM by DDNC »