Author Topic: Please follow this link for an announcement  (Read 10296 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Shady

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #15 on: April 30, 2015, 04:18:47 PM »
I guess it depends where you live.

 Here in TX you can be arrested and hauled in even if you have paperwork and show it. So I would imagine if you told the police <not atf> to pound sand when he pulled you over and asked about the paperwork on the SBR in your back seat that he would definatly take you in.

 Now when you see the Judge and show the paperwork all charges will be dropped but that don't mean you did not spend the weekend in the slammer for sticking it to the man and not showing your papers. 


In the end it's probably academic. The only thing people want from CZ is the stock. Manticore arms will most likely be providing all the 922 parts anyway, including a stock. Not sure what the stock will look like but MA makes good quality items and has a penchant for this exact type item. I support them 100%. For the record I ain't showing any non ATF personnel a form 1 unless it is heavily redacted to buy an item or anything else for that matter and remind them that they are unauthorized to make such a request and I would do so only at MY convenience.

Offline DDNC

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #16 on: April 30, 2015, 04:35:19 PM »
I guess it depends where you live.

 Here in TX you can be arrested and hauled in even if you have paperwork and show it. So I would imagine if you told the police <not atf> to pound sand when he pulled you over and asked about the paperwork on the SBR in your back seat that he would definatly take you in.

 Now when you see the Judge and show the paperwork all charges will be dropped but that don't mean you did not spend the weekend in the slammer for sticking it to the man and not showing your papers. 


In the end it's probably academic. The only thing people want from CZ is the stock. Manticore arms will most likely be providing all the 922 parts anyway, including a stock. Not sure what the stock will look like but MA makes good quality items and has a penchant for this exact type item. I support them 100%. For the record I ain't showing any non ATF personnel a form 1 unless it is heavily redacted to buy an item or anything else for that matter and remind them that they are unauthorized to make such a request and I would do so only at MY convenience.
I'm well aware of that and if asked by the po-po would inform them it's all quite legal and produce the rape tax approval document the .gov forced me to pay but I too live in Texas and where I live the LE generally isn't a problem and will never see an exposed NFA weapon in my vehicle. I don't use public ranges and I have been pulled over plenty and they have never asked what was in the case let alone if I had weapons with me and I'm sure they saw them. I have no prob cooperating with LE but the situation has never arisen, retailers is where I was going.

Offline pedro66

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2015, 04:39:19 PM »
Agreed but the LEO departments are told by the ATF if they have questions to use the local on call number Always if you have a interaction with LEO on NFA stuff and its going south ask for them to roll a supervisor and have him/her call the on call local ATF office they will guide them on procedure you could even contact your local ATF office and get the on call number to carry with you

Offline DDNC

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #18 on: April 30, 2015, 04:42:43 PM »
Agreed but the LEO departments are told by the ATF if they have questions to use the local on call number Always if you have a interaction with LEO on NFA stuff and its going south ask for them to roll a supervisor and have him/her call the on call local ATF office they will guide them on procedure you could even contact your local ATF office and get the on call number to carry with you

Good info. All us NFA players should know this.

Offline ShootersElement

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 394
  • www.ShootersElement.com
    • Shooters Element
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #19 on: April 30, 2015, 08:35:08 PM »
...If asked by the po-po, (I) would inform them it's all quite legal and produce the rape tax approval document the .gov forced me to pay...


AHAHAHAHAHahahaaHAH BUehahahaehahshah

That one is going in my book...lol
CZ Scorpion accessories

www.ShootersElement.com

Like us on Facebook:www.facebook.com/ShootersElement
Check us out on Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/shooters_element

Offline Shady

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #20 on: April 30, 2015, 08:40:44 PM »
That may be how it is in your state.

In Texas its Illegal to have NFA items and the BATF paperwork is only a defense to prosecution not to arrest. Im not saying the PO PO will take you in its up to them and if you get the ride you will get out of punishment after the Judge sees the paperwork.
 

Agreed but the LEO departments are told by the ATF if they have questions to use the local on call number Always if you have a interaction with LEO on NFA stuff and its going south ask for them to roll a supervisor and have him/her call the on call local ATF office they will guide them on procedure you could even contact your local ATF office and get the on call number to carry with you

Offline armoredman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17234
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #21 on: April 30, 2015, 09:18:27 PM »
I wouldn't call it a rape tax, as real rape is a terrible crime, but I understand how you feel. I honestly doubt most LEOs know much about NFA except that machine guns are "bad", from the popular media, but out here in AZ, getting "caught" with a legal full auto might result in you sharing your ammo with the officer... quite a few of the cops I've met down here are shooters, too. ;)

Offline pedro66

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 217
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2015, 01:15:30 AM »
That may be how it is in your state.

In Texas its Illegal to have NFA items and the BATF paperwork is only a defense to prosecution not to arrest. Im not saying the PO PO will take you in its up to them and if you get the ride you will get out of punishment after the Judge sees the paperwork.
 

Agreed but the LEO departments are told by the ATF if they have questions to use the local on call number Always if you have a interaction with LEO on NFA stuff and its going south ask for them to roll a supervisor and have him/her call the on call local ATF office they will guide them on procedure you could even contact your local ATF office and get the on call number to carry with you

I think your taking it a little far the following article clears that situation

NFA ITEMS ARE LEGAL IN TEXAS
Written by ASA on October 31, 2014 - Comments
In recent weeks, select organizations have made the claim that items regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934 (NFA) are illegal to possess in Texas and four other states with large NFA markets. These states include Alaska, Oklahoma, Tennessee, and Washington. This claim is false.

NFA items ARE LEGAL to own and possess in all five of the aforementioned states.

The basis of the claim hinges upon a flagrant misrepresentation of the law. Texas Penal Code states:

Sec. 46.05.  PROHIBITED WEAPONS.  (a)  A person commits an offense if the person intentionally or knowingly possesses, manufactures, transports, repairs, or sells:

(1)  an explosive weapon;

(2)  a machine gun;

(3)  a short-barrel firearm;

(4)  a firearm silencer;

(5)   knuckles;

(6)  armor-piercing ammunition;

(7)  a chemical dispensing device;

(8 )  a zip gun; or

(9)  a tire deflation device.

(b)  It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor’s conduct was incidental to the performance of official duty by the armed forces or national guard, a governmental law enforcement agency, or a correctional facility.

The code then goes on to clarify the instances under which civilian possession of an NFA item is legal:

(c)  It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor’s possession was pursuant to registration pursuant to the National Firearms Act, as amended.

As you can see, lawful registration in accordance with the National Firearms Act is a “defense to prosecution”.  In Texas, any “defense to prosecution” has to be disproven by the state beyond a reasonable doubt. If reasonable doubt is established that the item in question is properly registered, the state requires that the defendant be acquitted.

In practical terms, this defense will only come into play if a law enforcement officer in Texas requests to see your proof of registration for an NFA item, and you are unable to produce the proper paperwork. On the other hand, if an individual is arrested for the possession of an NFA item, all he or she would need to do to avoid charges is show their ATF Tax Stamp for each NFA item. Nearly all prosecutors understand that even if a person doesn’t have their tax stamp when arrested, producing it at trial will raise enough of a reasonable doubt to make a conviction impossible. As a result, most prosecutors are not interested in pursuing cases that will obviously end in acquittal. Doing so could result in malicious prosecution charges.

This defense is similar to how Texas handles drivers who are caught operating a motor vehicle without a license. They too have a defense to prosecution, and will be acquitted if the driver can produce a driver’s license in court that was valid at the time of their offense (Tex. Trans. § 521.025(d)).

When discussing the legality of NFA items, bear in mind that Texas is by far the largest NFA market in the country. In terms of suppressors, Texas has 86,579 in circulation as of March, 2014, according to the ATF’s 2014 Annual Statistical Update of Firearms Commerce in the United States. With a combined total of 136,182 registered suppressors, AK, OK, TN, TX, and WA make up nearly 25% of the market. Although there are slight variations amongst defense to prosecution laws in different states, and although better statutes would be ideal, all five of these states allow civilians to own and possess NFA items in a similar manner to Texas. The ATF would not have approved the transfer of over 136,000 suppressors to these states if they were illegal.

The American Suppressor Association is the unified voice of the suppressor industry. The interests of suppressor manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and consumers are our only priorities. Although we will work in 2015 to enact stronger policy surrounding existing defense to prosecution laws, our primary initiatives on the state level will remain the passage of state ownership, hunting, and shall certify legislation across the country. We will not be fooled by fabricated issues.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2015, 01:17:31 AM by pedro66 »

Offline Border Dave

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 250
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2015, 02:17:29 AM »
Pedro, just last year Washington State legislators changed the law making it legal for a person to possess a short barrel rifle if it is legally registered with the federal government, but the wording of the law makes it unclear to me if a person is allowed to attach a stock to a pistol to make it a short barrel rifle (with an approved Form 1, of course).

Here is the law as it stands:

Quote from: Washington State Law
RCW 9.41.190
Unlawful firearms—Exceptions.

(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section, it is unlawful for any person to manufacture, own, buy, sell, loan, furnish, transport, or have in possession or under control, any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or any part designed and intended solely and exclusively for use in a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle, or in converting a weapon into a machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle; or to assemble or repair any machine gun, short-barreled shotgun, or short-barreled rifle.
(2) It is not unlawful for a person to possess, transport, acquire, or transfer a short-barreled rifle that is legally registered and possessed, transported, acquired, or transferred in accordance with federal law.
(3) Subsection (1) of this section shall not apply to:
(a) Any peace officer in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty, or to any officer or member of the armed forces of the United States or the state of Washington in the discharge of official duty or traveling to or from official duty; or
(b) A person, including an employee of such person if the employee has undergone fingerprinting and a background check, who or which is exempt from or licensed under federal law, and engaged in the production, manufacture, repair, or testing of machine guns, short-barreled shotguns, or short-barreled rifles:
(i) To be used or purchased by the armed forces of the United States;
(ii) To be used or purchased by federal, state, county, or municipal law enforcement agencies; or
(iii) For exportation in compliance with all applicable federal laws and regulations.
(4) It shall be an affirmative defense to a prosecution brought under this section that the machine gun or short-barreled shotgun was acquired prior to July 1, 1994, and is possessed in compliance with federal law.
(5) Any person violating this section is guilty of a class C felony.
[2014 c 201 § 1; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 420; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 2; 1933 c 64 § 1; RRS § 2518-1.]

So, my question is, "Does that law allow me to attach a stock to a CZ Scorpion Evo and make it a short barrel rifle with an approved Form 1 or not?"

Does anyone have any insight on this law?

Offline Shady

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2015, 09:28:07 AM »
I duno where you are I would have quoted but it was to long :)

 I live in Tx and am active in the gun community. Spend some time on Texas based gun forms and see how your  interpretation of the law  does not mesh with reality.

Better yet come on out with the proper paper work to transport NFA items across state lines and be a jerk to a cop and tell him you dont have to show him anything and see how well it goes for you.

You are not going to change my mind  I am not going to change yours so I will just leave it at we can agree to disagree

 

Offline Shady

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #25 on: May 12, 2015, 07:31:33 AM »
Well I stand corrected as of Yesterday the legislation of Texas just passed a law that will change it so you are safe if you have your paperwork from arrest. Now all we have to do is get the Gov. To sign that sucker

Offline DDNC

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #26 on: May 12, 2015, 08:11:09 AM »
Well I stand corrected as of Yesterday the legislation of Texas just passed a law that will change it so you are safe if you have your paperwork from arrest. Now all we have to do is get the Gov. To sign that sucker
Can you confirm this? The last I saw this was still in the house. I'm sure it will pass and be signed but I don''t think it has progressed that far.
       
 
 Texas State Rifle Association   
 
Session Ends in One Month
 
TSRA Priority Legislative Agenda



Even Licensed Open Carry has not crossed the finish line and therefore is not eligible for the Governor's desk. 

However everything, absolutely every pro-gun bill on the agenda below, is in the best possible position within the legislative process to pass.  There is time!  Plus, we are in touch with the right folks in the House and right folks in the Senate, the people who can get it done!  If bills don't pass it will not be because TSRA members stopped pushing on our end! 


* Open Carry: To allow a person with a state-issued license in Texas to carry a legally-possessed handgun openly or concealed.

HB 910 by Rep. Phillips & SB 17 by Sen. Estes.  SB 17 passed in the Senate and has been received in the House.  HB 910 passed in the House and has been received in the Senate.  We believe the Senate will act to complete the House bill.   
 

* Campus Carry: This year marks the 20th anniversary of concealed carry in Texas. CHLs have established a long record of law-abiding, responsible behavior. College campuses are not "crime-free" zones.   This is the 4th session for this important personal protection issue.   
HB 937 by Rep. Fletcher & SB 11 by Sen. Brian Birdwell
SB 11 passed in the Senate and moved to the House.  The House passed HB 937 in committee and HB 937 is currently in the Calendars Committee process.
 

 * CLEO Sign Off/NFA Applications: The Obama Administration has directed the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (BATFE) to propose new regulations affecting National Firearms Act trusts and the process of obtaining an NFA-regulated firearm or suppressor. NFA trusts have provided individuals who live in areas where CLEOs refuse to certify NFA applications with the only legal option available.  There are currently 80,000 suppressors in Texas, twice the the number owned in other states.  Suppressors can be used to hunt Texas game animals. This is a growing market. Law-abiding Texans should have to resort to a trust for CLEO purposes.   

HB 1179 by Rep. Geren & SB 476 by Sen. Kolkhorst.   

HB 1179 is within the Calendars Committee process.  SB 476 passed in the Senate has been referred to a House Committee. 

 

 * PC 46.05 Prohibited Weapons: This section of the Penal Code lists prohibited firearms and creates a confusing and unnecessary "defense to prosecution" for the legal owner of a class 3 device already compliant with the National Firearms Act. Before taking possession, an individual owner of class 3 devices must complete the ATF form 4, complete a federal background check, submitted to full registration of the device and themselves and pay ATF a $200 fee.   All must be completed before ATF issues documentation and the intended purchaser is eligible to take possession of his intended purchase. This bill clarifies the confusion in Texas law.   

HB 989 by Rep. Frullo and SB 473 by Sen. Charles Perry.   HB 989 is on the General State Calendar for May 6th.  SB 473 passed in the Senate and referred to a House Committee.


 
 
 
 
 
 
« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 08:18:10 AM by DDNC »

Offline Shady

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 99
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #27 on: May 12, 2015, 08:29:18 AM »
It was posted to both texas home town on the big ar15 site and also on texasguntalk. By one of the well known posters of good info :)

I will be the first to say I don't know much on how laws are made and approved in Tx so I am just regurgitating info I found posted. If I am not right please feel free to correct it

This is one of MateFrio's posts I saw
 SB 473\HB 989 NFA just got passed and sent to the Governor

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/billlookup/History.aspx?LegSess=84R&Bill=SB473

Shows it waiting for gov sig



Well I stand corrected as of Yesterday the legislation of Texas just passed a law that will change it so you are safe if you have your paperwork from arrest. Now all we have to do is get the Gov. To sign that sucker
Can you confirm this? The last I saw this was still in the house. I'm sure it will pass and be signed but I don''t think it has progressed that far.
       
 
 Texas State Rifle Association   
 
Session Ends in One Month
 
TSRA Priority Legislative Agenda



Even Licensed Open Carry has not crossed the finish line and therefore is not eligible for the Governor's desk. 

However everything, absolutely every pro-gun bill on the agenda below, is in the best possible position within the legislative process to pass.  There is time!  Plus, we are in touch with the right folks in the House and right folks in the Senate, the people who can get it done!  If bills don't pass it will not be because TSRA members stopped pushing on our end! 


* Open Carry: To allow a person with a state-issued license in Texas to carry a legally-possessed handgun openly or concealed.

HB 910 by Rep. Phillips & SB 17 by Sen. Estes.  SB 17 passed in the Senate and has been received in the House.  HB 910 passed in the House and has been received in the Senate.  We believe the Senate will act to complete the House bill.   
 

* Campus Carry: This year marks the 20th anniversary of concealed carry in Texas. CHLs have established a long record of law-abiding, responsible behavior. College campuses are not "crime-free" zones.   This is the 4th session for this important personal protection issue.   
HB 937 by Rep. Fletcher & SB 11 by Sen. Brian Birdwell
SB 11 passed in the Senate and moved to the House.  The House passed HB 937 in committee and HB 937 is currently in the Calendars Committee process.
 

 * CLEO Sign Off/NFA Applications: The Obama Administration has directed the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms & Explosives (BATFE) to propose new regulations affecting National Firearms Act trusts and the process of obtaining an NFA-regulated firearm or suppressor. NFA trusts have provided individuals who live in areas where CLEOs refuse to certify NFA applications with the only legal option available.  There are currently 80,000 suppressors in Texas, twice the the number owned in other states.  Suppressors can be used to hunt Texas game animals. This is a growing market. Law-abiding Texans should have to resort to a trust for CLEO purposes.   

HB 1179 by Rep. Geren & SB 476 by Sen. Kolkhorst.   

HB 1179 is within the Calendars Committee process.  SB 476 passed in the Senate has been referred to a House Committee. 

 

 * PC 46.05 Prohibited Weapons: This section of the Penal Code lists prohibited firearms and creates a confusing and unnecessary "defense to prosecution" for the legal owner of a class 3 device already compliant with the National Firearms Act. Before taking possession, an individual owner of class 3 devices must complete the ATF form 4, complete a federal background check, submitted to full registration of the device and themselves and pay ATF a $200 fee.   All must be completed before ATF issues documentation and the intended purchaser is eligible to take possession of his intended purchase. This bill clarifies the confusion in Texas law.   

HB 989 by Rep. Frullo and SB 473 by Sen. Charles Perry.   HB 989 is on the General State Calendar for May 6th.  SB 473 passed in the Senate and referred to a House Committee.

« Last Edit: May 12, 2015, 08:35:32 AM by Shady »

Offline DDNC

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 238
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #28 on: May 12, 2015, 10:09:00 AM »
Very good. It does appear that this is slated to go the Guv's desk which he will sign because he is on our side. I am just thankful abortion Barbie got her a$$ handed to her.
Just one less bureaucratic piece of interpretative garbage we'll have to worry about. Yay!

Offline Quercusmax

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • It wasn't my fault
Re: Please follow this link for an announcement
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2017, 06:35:58 PM »
This whole thread (which I had not read before) presents a whole new view of TX to me, which I had always understood to be a bastion of reason in a sea of craziness.

I live in a semi-libtard state, but have no fears of being pulled over for NFA stuff.  Maybe because the southern border is so far away?

I still haven't found paradise, but some states certainly are better than others.
If it's popular, I'm against it.