Author Topic: Project poor mans open P09  (Read 6743 times)

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Offline Jamiethesquid

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #60 on: December 07, 2017, 07:57:05 AM »
This is the holster that Neumount makes.

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Offline dave33

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #61 on: December 07, 2017, 04:50:15 PM »
This is the holster that Neumount makes.

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Good looking rig.  Does he make any kind of totally open race type holster that would fit a P-09?  I use a Comp-tac P-07 slide holster, fits like a glove and has an open bottom the comp sticks out of but its a bit of a longer draw, gotta shave time any where possible ya know.  ;D

I really like VV 3N38 powder with 124 xtreme RN heavy plate bullets.  Have shot this several months at around 170-172 PF and it has a good feel with excellent accuracy.  That being said I came across 8lbs of AA#7 at a great price and will be moving to it for a while.  Still using the Springer Precision comp, its not ideal but actually works pretty well.  If I have time tomorrow I will do a complete year in review rundown.  Probably start a new thread so it doesn't bog this one down too bad, as I have a lot of info I can share.

Offline Jamiethesquid

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #62 on: December 07, 2017, 05:03:01 PM »
I am told his mount works with the Guga Ribas Race holster and the CR speed with a slight bit of fitting.

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Offline Jamiethesquid

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #63 on: December 07, 2017, 05:05:05 PM »
Dave 33 keep this post going. Don't start a new one.

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Offline 30-30

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #64 on: December 07, 2017, 07:05:29 PM »
that's a nice group, nice pics--I like the compensator too.

Offline dave33

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #65 on: December 09, 2017, 11:03:09 AM »
Not quite two years ago I decided to turn my P-09 into an open style competition pistol, complete with a red dot sight and compensator.  Had in mind shooting NRA Action Pistol matches and a little steel challenge also.  Decided to try USPSA, liked it better, and spent the last year shooting major 9 instead of the other matches I had planned.  Have had pretty good results and a bunch of fun with this non traditional race gun and learned a lot about its limitations too.

The gun - Started out with a black, threaded barrel P-09, and to it added/modified the following:

*Replaced stock hammer with Cajun race hammer.  Excellent product that gives the Omega trigger system a much, much cleaner, crisper break, highly recommended by me.

*Internally, installed CGW short reset kit, extended FP, and a 13lb hammer spring.  Didn't polish anything, did bend down the trigger bar spring a little and just shot the snot out of it.  Don't have a pull gage but I would put the trigger pull somewhere around 6-7lbs DA, and 2.5-3lbs SA, again with a very nice break.

*Added a Springer Precision comp.  Works well, would probably benefit from another large up port for major 9, but I doubt it was designed for full major 9 loads anyway.  It has stayed in place perfectly using the supplied Loctite, I did tap the bottom of it for a set screw for my own piece of mind, but probably not needed.

*Replaced the rear sight with a Springer Precision dovetail mount for a Burris FF3 red dot.  This is an excellent mount, in over two years of shooting it has not loosened up, shifted, or given me any kind of grief.  I actually bought another for my .40 cal P09 and move my FF3 between the two, they are both rock solid.

*Installed a Burris FF3 red dot.  All I can say is it works.  In over two years this sight has not lost zero, or failed in any way, including about a year of shooting major 9 loads with it.  I'm a little surprised, cause I have beat this gun and optic up and it still just keeps working.  Ive had to replace the battery a few times, but otherwise, no complaints.

*Beefed up the grip with Sugru moldable glue.  This stuff hasn't peeled, chipped, or otherwise budged since I put it on.  I do wish it had a little more of a rough texture for hot sweaty days, but the way I have it molded for my hand, it really does a very good job.

*Replaced stock recoil assembly with Cajun stainless guide rod, and a 12lb recoil spring.  I bought the tuner pack of recoil springs and like the 12lb the best, with the 13 and 11 close seconds. 

Some observations:

*Don't know my round count but its got to be over 10,000, probably way over, and that includes a year of major 9 rounds through it.  Only failure has been one single trigger return spring.  Otherwise, not a single problem, broken part, or even misfeed for that matter.  I rarely clean it, just make sure the bore looks good and add some lube to the rails while its apart.

*It is still crazy accurate.  I haven't done benched groups for accuracy in a long time, but still shoot from a rest when doing ammo testing, and unless the load is total crap, sub 2" 25yd groups without trying hard are pretty much a given.

*As a USPSA open major gun it actually works pretty good, considering its limitations.  The Springer comp does a pretty good job for what it is, but a more purpose built comp would be better.  I settled on 124gr Xtreme RN heavy plate bullets over VV3N38 powder at 172 PF, not my first choice in bullet but they are very accurate and can be loaded much longer for the short CZ throat.  The 19 round factory mags have held up to being dropped, kicked, stepped on, and generally neglected with no ill effects.  Ive thought about adding the +2 extensions but just cant justify the expense as there have only been a couple of stages in the last year that would of made a difference having the extra 2 rounds in a mag.  Slide ride vs frame mount for the optic hasn't been a problem, but then again Ive never used a frame mount optic so I may be missing out and not know. 

Offline Jamiethesquid

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #66 on: December 11, 2017, 01:31:04 PM »
Thanks for the reply Dave 33. So here is where I am at so far.

I was shooting Single Stack for a couple years, and got tired of the low turnout at my local matches in SS. Some months there were only 2 of us.

At that point in 2014 ish. I was an FFL and a good friend came in to order a P-07 for his wife and a P-09 for himself. He also wanted me to drop in some of the Cajun Goodies. I have always been a fan of the 75's so I was, interested to check out the P-Series guns.

Well needless to say I was very pleased with the factory guns that arrived at my shop. I installed the CGW parts and both of these guns felt much improved in the shop. Took them both to the range to test fire, before delivering them to my buddy.

I was completely blown away by how they shot. Upon returning from the range, I ordered a P-09 for my self, 2 extra mags from CZ-USA, all the Cajun Goodies, and a set of fiber optic sights from Dawson Precision.

Shot the gun in USPSA Production Division for about a year, had a great time. I am a lefty, so the Slide release, and Mag release work very well for me and the ergonomics of the gun are awesome, and of course the accuracy is top notch.

When Carry Optics became a thing, I decided to give it a try, as I was having a much harder time keeping a good clear front sight focus with my worsening vision. I have tried a couple different prescriptions, with little success. The dot was a game changer. I ordered a FF3 in 8 MOA and a Springer Dovetail mount. Ran that in Competition for a couple months with zero complaints. The first match I shot with it was in the middle of Winter up here in New England. I mounted the Burris, went to my indoor range, sighted it in, shot about another 50 rounds and had to head off for an appointment.

Next Day I shot my first match in Carry Optics and I knew it was the division for me. Between Jan of 16' and Nov of 17'. I have shot 35 USPSA matches in CO, Including two Area 7 Championships, 2 Mid Atlantic Sectionals, and the 2017 Optics Nationals, gun has run flawlessly, not a single parts failure.

Now for mods, I started out with some coarse stippling, that worked well enough, but once I tried the Silicon Carbide over epoxy I decided that was measurably better, I have the CGW race hammer, short reset, extended firing pin, reduced power Trigger Return spring, solid guide rod, and various springs, I did switch to the over sized roller to solve the timing issue, bought two +5, and three +0 aluminum basepads from Springer, with the Grams TS follower and springs I can get 24 in the mags easily.  I also did a light polish job on a few of the internals after reading a few of the posts on this forum. I also just added the ESP Magwell from Springer Precision, which is a very nice addition.

After the first couple months I decided to send my pistol to Primary Machine to have them mill the slide for direct mount of the FF3, they also Cerakoted the slide Crimson Red for me. As many of you Know Primary Machine's work is top notch and their customer service is great.

Up till this point I had been shooting 165 gr Xtreme bullets in 9mm over 2.8 of Titegroup, at 1.150" OAL. Making 131.5 PF. Super Load.

I have been wanting to try my hand at Open division for a long time and would love to be rocking a CZECHMATE, however my funds just can't support it. So I decided to convert my P-09 to Open in such a way that I would be able to reverse the mods and still shoot CO if I wanted to. 

Enter the Neumount, I happened to start talking to Tom Neufeld on Facebook one night about 9mm loads, and he asked me if I had seen his mount. Well long story short, we started talking regularly and he sent me a couple mounts to try out, along with one of his Kydex holsters. The mount is also compatible with the Guga Ribas and the CR speed, race type holsters, which is great because I bought the Guga Ribas Holster about a year ago, ran it in one match, put away it in a safe place and haven't been able to find it since.

The Neumount mounts to any gun with a picatinny light rail (over 100+ of guns have been verified) and it is drilled and tapped for more than 35 models of Red Dots, or with an adapter anything that can mount on a Picatinny rail. He invented it to do load development and group testing on his iron sights guns without having to make permenant modifications to the pistol. It also just so happens to be the Ideal way to frame mount an optic on a polymer gun. I know that there are mounts for the XD, M&P, and Glock, but nothing that was Ideal for the P-09/07. The difference in base height from the milled P-09 to the Neumount is .490", meaning the Frame mounted Dot is less than 1/2" higher than it slide mounted. For me, the learning curve was almost immediate.

Now to solve the SAO functionality, I love that the gun comes with the Safety levers, I have 2 sets, one from my P-09 and one from my P-07, and they are cheap enough for me to experiment with. I am a lefty so I only really care about the right side. I have some 1x1x1/8" aluminum angle to play with, I am probably going to sand/grind flat the right side lever and epoxy a piece of aluminum angle to it that will allow me to thumb off the safety dropping the lever down a bit lower on the grip and extending it outwards. I don't have big hands and the factory levers are not really reachable. At this weekend's match I will just continue to shoot it with the decockers.  I figure the safeties are cheap enough from CZ, I can try a few different prototypes to see if I can make something useable. Also this weekend I will be shooting Open Minor as we don't allow Compensators on our indoor range (it is pretty small).

Next and probably the final challenge is going to be 9mm Major. I am ordering a factory threaded barrel, I have a SJC 11 port Major Comp on the way now, made for a Glock so I know that it is definitely not going to be as sleek as the Springer Precision, or Primary Machine comps, but I know from first hand experience that this comp is made to take full advantage of the huge volume of gas generated by heavy charges of slow burning powder, and keep the gun shooting flat at 165-185 PF. I would like to be at 175ish to leave some meat on the bone at Chrono.

I have a couple 9 Major powders to try out first, and some good recommendations for others to try soon afterwards.  I helped a friend develop a load for his 2011 in 9 major, and 1 have a couple pounds of Auto Comp. We liked the way 6.9-7.2 gr of WAC behind a 124 gr xtreme shot. I also have 4 pounds of IMR SR-7625 to try, it was up until recently a favorite 9 Major powder of a many Friends who shoot 9 Open Guns, but they stopped making it a couple years ago.  Everyone raves about 3n38, I will order some of that soon along with possibly a couple others to really get some good load comparisons.

Over the next few months, I hope to really dial in the gun and the load. Possibly add a trigger with Overtravel stop, find or buy another race holster, and just shoot the crap out of it. I am also going to buy a couple extra mags, and cut and weld a 170mm mag that should get me 30-31 rounds.

Sorry the post is so long.


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Offline Jamiethesquid

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #67 on: December 11, 2017, 01:36:03 PM »
Here is the SJC Comp

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Offline Jamiethesquid

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #68 on: December 11, 2017, 01:42:40 PM »
"Slide ride vs frame mount for the optic hasn't been a problem, but then again Ive never used a frame mount optic so I may be missing out and not know."

I think the only advantage of the Frame mount is that the dot is not reciprocating with the slide, and makes tracking the dot that much faster. With my Minor PF loads and no comp the dot Stays within the Alpha/Charlie zone on the target out to 20 yards or so.

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Offline dave33

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #69 on: December 11, 2017, 06:15:32 PM »
jamiethesquid, Ive considered trying the SJC comp, just haven't pulled the trigger.  Glad you have one coming, be looking forward to hear how it works.  I can definitely give you some suggestions on powders as I have tried almost all of them.  Having all those ports you want as much gas as possible, your best bet is going to be running a 115gr projectile over HS-6, VV 3N38, or Accurate #7.  VV 3N38 will be a little tough to load, and will probably be a bit compressed depending on which bullet you use.  I much prefer JHP bullets but RN can be loaded much longer in the short CZ throats.  I have about 8lbs of 7625 and love it in 9mm minor.  Ive loaded some hot loads with it but haven't tried to make major with it.  I know some guys use to years ago, Ive just never given it a go. 



Offline Jamiethesquid

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #70 on: December 11, 2017, 07:27:35 PM »
Thanks, I was thinking about ordering some Montana Gold 115's. I am so in love with the Xtremes the last couple years.

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Offline Jamiethesquid

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #71 on: December 11, 2017, 07:29:36 PM »
I have found that with the 124 or 165 Xtreme RN I can load all the way out to about 1.190"

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Offline Jamiethesquid

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #72 on: December 11, 2017, 08:00:39 PM »
Actually before the MG I will try some XTreme 115's the price is much less.

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Offline dave33

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #73 on: December 11, 2017, 11:11:50 PM »
If you want to shoot a JHP I have found TJ Conevera Bullets can be loaded longer than any other JHP I have tried due to their less blunt profile. Very accurate too but a bit pricey. If you stick with xtreme RN make sure to get the heavy plate version as they are rated up to 1500 FPS, and I can attest they hold up well and are very accurate.

Offline Jamiethesquid

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Re: Project poor mans open P09
« Reply #74 on: December 11, 2017, 11:49:04 PM »
Dave33. Thanks for the info.

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