Author Topic: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"  (Read 4150 times)

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Offline steele6599

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What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« on: February 25, 2016, 11:58:16 AM »
So just curious not that I would consider changing anything on mine...  Like the 3 round burst selection how is that done?  I would love to see some pics or explained...

Thanks.

Offline akuser47

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2016, 12:12:17 PM »
Different hammer, auto sear,cam, and disconnector, I would bet. Cz literally has 2 different trigger packs civilian and leo military. Though I have never set them side by side this is what I've seen in many other rifles unless I'm forgetting something. Maybe some LEO can help us on what CZ used specifically.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2016, 12:18:15 PM by akuser47 »

Offline este

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #2 on: February 25, 2016, 12:19:51 PM »
A= Army
S= Semiauto
1= 9mm
2= 40sw

Differences in the Army model are the select fire trigger pack, the markings on the receiver sides, and to the best of my knowledge, there is a cooling shroud over the barrel in at least some models.

Offline steele6599

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #3 on: February 25, 2016, 12:37:28 PM »


Offline mursalot

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #4 on: October 20, 2016, 11:57:44 PM »
Where can I get part #39? I'm a fan of the "wings"
2 things you never want to hear when you pull the trigger:

"click" when you expect it to go "bang" and

"bang" when you expect it to go "click"

Offline armoredman

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2016, 12:36:32 AM »
You might be able to get one at CZ-USA.
The S1 is unable to be changed to the A1 by design, and attempting to do so would be a federal offense. Discussing how it could be done can be prosecuted as conspiracy to violate NFA '34 - ATFE has absolutely zero sense of humor.
Now if you would just like to see how the A-1 design works, there might be a video around somewhere of it, probably narrated in Czech. Considering no police agency or military in the United States has adopted the Scorpion A1, I doubt there would be any video in English.

Offline Destructo6

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #6 on: October 21, 2016, 09:45:04 AM »
There are a lot of moving parts in the auto version's trigger pack.

Very interesting. Some of the stuff is pretty obvious how it works and not very different from other autos, like the sear trip (55), but there are some weird parts in there, specifically part numbers 50 and 53. What does a "hammer lever pin" do? Part 59 is a weird one, too.

Looks like every part in the trigger pack is different, to include the metal trigger case. I would not be surprised if the plastic housing and receiver are also different. The bolt probably also has a ramp to trip part number 55, though the ramp isn't visible in the drawing.

Offline russdiculous

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #7 on: October 21, 2016, 10:06:38 AM »
Looks like every part in the trigger pack is different, to include the metal trigger case. I would not be surprised if the plastic housing and receiver are also different. The bolt probably also has a ramp to trip part number 55, though the ramp isn't visible in the drawing.

Yep - I would bet to keep it from being "easily convertible" there were some changes made to the bolt and possibly trigger pack dimensions so that the A1 lower won't just drop into a S1.

Offline John A.

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #8 on: October 21, 2016, 10:14:18 AM »
I didn't notice this topic was months old until I had a reply typed up, so I'm not just going to delete it now.

I would agree that atf has no sense of humor.  Having my FFL's for a decade, and designing and building and owning multiple NFA items, I can say that I have a good understanding of that. 

I can also say I have never heard of conspiracy to violate the nfa'34 though. 

I have heard of "intent" being used against people with parts, or drilling holes in receivers and stuff, which is a violation, so it can be a tightrope walk, but  with that said, I know of nothing illegal about knowing how something works. 

As a few off the cuff examples, just because you know how to start a fire, does not make one an arsonist.  Just because your car registers 140 mph, doesn't mean you're out reckless driving going to the grocery store.  I could read a book about how to fly the space shuttle, but that doesn't make me an astronaut either.

So, while I have no hands on with the S1 scorpion trigger pack, I'll speculate and assume that the burst mechanism set up operates essentially the same as the M16's burst cam and there are countless videos that show how they operate with a quick search, though the schematic above calls it the ratchet. 

The bolt may also be a little different too if I were guessing, and there would likely be a protrusion or stop or surface that would come into contact with the burst cam if one were installed. 

Still, there would be other differences in the trigger pack as you already suspect.  cam, spring, different disconnecter, etc.

Myself and personally, I prefer standard FA mode over burst any day of the week.  For the main reason that with a burst cam, if you pull the trigger and release it after only 1 or 2 shots were fired (pulling a single or double), the next time you pull the trigger, you will only get the third shot and you'll have to reset the trigger and pull again, much like how a semi auto works in semi guns.

With a standard FA assembly, you determine if you expend a single/double or ten as needed.



« Last Edit: October 21, 2016, 11:11:20 AM by John A. »
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline majulook

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #9 on: October 21, 2016, 11:41:16 AM »
Wondering what the cost and availability of part 74 is?

Offline Destructo6

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #10 on: October 21, 2016, 02:04:24 PM »
Quote
with a burst cam, if you pull the trigger and release it after only 1 or 2 shots were fired (pulling a single or double), the next time you pull the trigger, you will only get the third shot and you'll have to reset the trigger and pull again
That's true with the M16 style burst mechanism, but others, notably HK, have figured out how to make the burst mechanism reset with the release of the trigger. I'm guessing, since the ratchet has pawls on one side only, the A1 resets regardless of the number of shots fired in a burst.

That being said, burst seems like an unnecessary mode.

Offline mursalot

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #11 on: October 21, 2016, 06:53:24 PM »
I didn't notice this topic was months old until I had a reply typed up, so I'm not just going to delete it now.

Sorry about that. I have a habit of refreshing older threads that leave me with questions. Like where can one find part 39? As far as I know, CZ-USA only sells the S-1 version and not the A-1 version. I don't even know why they even made the change in the 2016 (gen2) models. It's not as if it's a 922r compliance part.
2 things you never want to hear when you pull the trigger:

"click" when you expect it to go "bang" and

"bang" when you expect it to go "click"

Offline czevo3a1

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #12 on: January 03, 2018, 01:49:24 AM »
Hi

Sorry to drag up and old topic. However I'm curious as to know the internal difference between an S1 & an A1.

I own an EVO 3 A1. So can provide some internal photos if anyone is interested?

Offline Buckshot Barry

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #13 on: January 03, 2018, 09:06:28 AM »

Offline John A.

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Re: What is the difference internally of a Scorpion "S1" vs "A1"
« Reply #14 on: January 03, 2018, 04:28:00 PM »
Thanks for that photo.  I've searched high and low for one.

Is the bolt different too?  I was under the impression that they were. 
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

 

anything