Author Topic: CZ83 vs. Makarov  (Read 3866 times)

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Offline MN CZ

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« on: June 10, 2003, 08:01:01 AM »
How would you all compare the CZ83 vs. the 9*18 Makarov?
Obviously they are almost duplicates, but what about the small aspects, including price, concealability, ect?
Thanks

Walt-Sherrill

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2003, 08:09:45 AM »
I don't think they're duplicates, at all.

The Makarov is a fine weapon, but has a heavy trigger, and can't be carried cocked and locked.  Its smaller than the CZ-83, which gives it a modest edge in the concealed carry role.

For the money, it can't be beat.

The CZ-83 is a much more pleasant weapon to shoot, quite a bit larger, with a much, much better trigger.  It might have a slight edge, generally, in accuracy.

Both can be very accurate -- but I'd argue that a 9x18 or .380 isn't a good concealed carry round.

If your main use is shooting at a range, go with the CZ-83.  If you intended use is concealed carry, get a CZ-75 compact (in 9mm).

If you want a good quality, inexpensive gun, get a Makarov.  If money is less of an issue, get the CZ-83.

Personally, I find 9mm guns cheaper and more fun to shoot, and you have access to a wider range of good ammo.

Offline MN CZ

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2003, 10:28:49 AM »
Good point.. I've got two gorgeous guns, a CZ97B and CZ52 for range shooting. The compact would be for carry purposes. I didn't consider the 75 compact as a choice, but now I'll czech out the specs.

Offline ut83

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2003, 01:51:43 PM »
The two arent even close except in caliber, profile and blowback design.....Sorry, but they arent.  The mak has about 1/2 of the parts of the CZ83....
You have two different class of guns.....the little maks are stone cold reliable, shoot well and are very cheap.
The 83 is a top notch, equal or better to Sig, Beretta and Browning for top 380 honors....Ive owned/shot them all and can vouch for this quite easily.
You just have two very good but different guns.
Shoot well :smokin

Offline Boogalou

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2003, 08:57:18 AM »
Makarov - Cheaper, simpler, slightly smaller.  Nice gun for the money.

CZ83 - better trigger, grips, sights, mag capacity, mag release, choice of double action or cocked & locked. Great gun for the money.

Offline mainmech48

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2003, 01:21:34 PM »
I'd have to agree with the previous comments, with a couple of observations of my own, FWIW.

I own a couple of Maks: a Bulgarian and a "commercial" Russian with the huge adjustable rear sight. Both were inexpensive, generally well-made, and surprisingly accurate. Both have been 100% functionaly reliable with a variety of ammo.

The front sights are tiny, shiney and hard for my bifocal-clad eyes to pick up quickly. Out-of-the-box actions were stiff and a little gritty-feeling. I'm not a fan of the heel-type mag release, but it's perfectly usable with practice.

But for under $150 in new condition, it's cheap enough to warrant a little judicious fiddling. Ammo is cheap enough to "shoot it smooth", if you're not handy. A thousand rounds of use makes a dramatic difference in the action's feel. Makarov.com has detailed instructions for a DIY action job. The mechanism is simple and robust, so with a little patience and careful polishing it's not hard to get very nice results for just the cost of materials.

Sights are another matter. For younger eyes a little colored enamel on the rear face of the front sight might be all you need. Novaks or XS sight sets in several variations are available, but they're not cheap (even at their most basic) and proper installation isn't a "kitchen table" job. It cost me $120 to have a set of XS "standard dot" express sights installed on my Bulgarian's slide, including return shipping. Value is relative, but the results in terms of improved practical accuracy and speed are amazing.

The CZ 83 doesn't need any of the above. But it's even larger relative to the power of the cartridge, and around here a nice used one will fetch a considerable amount more than I have in my Mak with the new sights factored in. For those of us in the USA, the difference in mag capacity is two rounds unless you can afford the scarce and expensive high-caps. Again, value is relative. With a "marginal" caliber it is arguable that more is always better. IMHO, if I have any doubt about my ability to solve my problem by placing eight rounds of the best available SD ammo into the COM, then I need another caliber more than another two rounds.

Here's where I'm with Walt: if I can get the same number of 9x19s or .40 S&Ws in a weapon of the same relative size and weight for the same money as the 83, I'll take it instead. Subjectively, the difference in recoil between a locked-breech 9x19 and a blow-back 9x18 in a twenty-odd oz. pistol is neglibable to me. For tight budgets, the little Keltec P11 goes for about $230 in these parts. Mine has been absolutely reliable and quite accurate. Okay, the looong DAO trigger pull takes some getting used to, and the grip is a bit boxy, but you've got much more oomph in the package.

Walt-Sherrill

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2003, 01:45:15 PM »
Another P-11 fan, too?  I carried one for a long time, until I found a Star Firestar Plus.  

Check out BlackHawk's trigger improvement on The High Road.  (I think its in the Gunsmithing area.) It make the trigger shorter and lighter, without making it dangerous.


Offline mainmech48

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2003, 10:11:39 AM »
Yep, I've come to have a somewhat grudging appreciation for the P-11. I bought mine on a whim at a local show, mostly because I was curious to see just how much gun one could get for $230. My rationale was that if it didn't work right, the factory has a good rep for service and the hard chrome plating on the slide would help me get most of the money back.

I have to admit that I wasn't really expecting much, given the truly heinous trigger and short sight radius. I also had my doubts about the plastic guide rod's durablity under the radical-seeming barrel movement during the firing cycle. Live and learn.

Out to 15 - 20 yds it puts them where I point it every time, once I learned how to control the trigger. After two partial FT Feeds in the first magazine load, it's been about as reliable as gravity through about 1700 rnds. There's some minor scuffing on the GR and polishing on the frame rails, but nothing else. Feeds every HP that I've tried as slick as ball, too.

I've carried my old M43 Firestar a good deal in the last 14 years. I put a set of Meprolite tritiums on it, but that's really all it needed. Sometimes the weight makes for rather limited carry options, but it also makes it very easy to shoot well rapidly in multiple target drills. I wish that I could find a nice "Starvel" finished Plus model with a couple of pre-ban high-caps. All of the virtues of my old friend, minus 6 or 7 ozs, plus 5 rounds, equals 1 great CCW for me. I'm not sure whether any of the full capacity models made it to the US before the ban, but it'd be sweet.

Come to think of it, I could live with just 10 rnds. Time to start shopping.

Offline ut83

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2003, 07:42:42 PM »
I like your taste in guns.....I had a starvel firestar plus and ran across another yesterday.  219$ with a Hi Cap.........
It had some miles on it and had the mag break still....first thing to go is the break...smooths the trigger ALOT.
I didnt get it.........as Im broke.  I could go lay it away though....hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

The KT is a nice little gun and you get alot for the money.
The triggers have turned me off...much like the original Taurus PT series guns.............................................
I got one free from Taurus a while back and sent it back to them......shipped it to me by mistake......rough decision.

Shoot well :smokin

Walt-Sherrill

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2003, 05:15:23 AM »
Quote
Quote:
I wish that I could find a nice "Starvel" finished Plus model with a couple of pre-ban high-caps. All of the virtues of my old friend, minus 6 or 7 ozs, plus 5 rounds, equals 1 great CCW for me.
If you happen across a Plus in Starvel, grab it.   At the time Eric was selling his, all I could do was offer a trade. (I had two at the time, but neither was Starvel.)  

His money needs and my money shortages seem to coincide.

You don't have to find 9mm hi-caps.  If you look around, you'll find some .40 mags, and they are functionally identical to the 9mm hi-caps (which hold 13 rounds.)  I've got two for my Firestar Plus in 9mm.

Offline mainmech48

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2003, 11:19:31 AM »
Walt: After no success at shows in two nearby cities, I went browsing at Gun Broker. Lots of M43s, but only a couple of Pluses.

The one with Starvel finish and one 13-rd mag was NIB w/all papers and doodads, but way out of line at $485. No bidders, needless to say.

The other is blued, also with one high-cap, NRA Ex w/box and tools-no papers. I put in a max bid of $275, and may have it. The only competition was low-balling at $140, and hadn't met reserve.

Any suggestions on sources for spare mags, should I end up winning the bid?

no10X4me

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2003, 08:54:44 AM »
Just reminder the Feinstein/Clinton signed bill sunsets next year and new hicaps may once again be availible. so save your dollars on any of the granfathered mags.

Walt-Sherrill

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #12 on: June 26, 2003, 05:35:19 AM »
I *WISH* the gun ban would sunset.  But I'm not holding my breath...

CDNN had Firestar Plus mags, recently, at a reasonable price.  And FORREST, Inc., had some hi-caps.

I found that the .40 Firestar Plus mags are identical to the 9mm mags as far as size and function go, but hold an additional 3 rounds (13).  The 9mm hi-caps hold 13.  Just keep you eyes open for .40 Firestar Plus mags.

I may retire mine when I get Erics Compact CZ-75B;  we'll see.

(Retire, but probably not sell or trade off anything.... )

Offline mainmech48

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #13 on: June 27, 2003, 06:18:20 PM »
I'm with ya again, Walt. While I'm an optimist by nature, my age-acquired cynicism tells me that it's real unlikely to happen in an election year. When your professional Feather Merchant politico weighs his self-interest (re-election) against your "inalienable" rights, guess which one wins.

BTW: Won the auction! While it's not exactly what I'd wanted, and wasn't a screaming bargain, it's close enough.  $275 for NRA Ex w/high-cap seems fair and reasonable when they're this tough to find locally.

Besides, if it lives up to my hopes and shoots as sweetly as my old M43 a trip out to Robar for NP3 may be in order. The Meprolites should be an easy swap, and it should fit my Sparks Summer Special too. Now to scrounge-up a couple of spare mags....

Offline CeeZeeMan

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CZ83 vs. Makarov
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2003, 05:19:51 PM »
Hi,
Are you still looking for a Star Firestar 9mm+ in Starvel finish?  I have one I need to sell.
Comes with the original box and paperwork.  Has had probably only a couple hundred rounds thru it at most.  If your interested let me know and I'll look to see how many Hi caps I have for it.