Author Topic: baldrage's shooting log  (Read 10450 times)

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Offline baldrage

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2016, 04:17:21 PM »
Thanks, Lemming.  I greatly appreciate the advice

From what I have read, you are referring to the "index" method of drawing, right?  Yes, most folks seem to agree that it is faster, but takes a lot of practice. 

I have a hard time getting sights to match up to natural POA when I do the index draw.  Granted, I have not had hundreds of hours of practice.

I have been practicing the press-out (L-shaped) draw, because it seems (in dry fire anyway) to help me get sights on target and first shot fired faster, even though the draw itself is slower.  Wish I could find the thread on pistol-forum.com that led me to it, but here is a video of Ernest Langdon illustrating differences between index draw (he calls it escalator) and press-out draw (elevator), and advocating that press-out is actually faster for getting lead on target:



The late Todd Green also seemed to be an advocate of the press out, saying it might not be as fast in a competition vs. a static target, but was more accurate in self-defense scenarios or in competition vs. moving targets. 

Tons of threads about this on pistol-forum.com ... consensus seems to be do what works best for you, most of the time...

Offline baldrage

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #16 on: May 08, 2016, 05:51:51 PM »
Live Fire

Uggh, should have left Mrs. Baldrage to deal with the kids and went to the range on Thursday night instead of today!

My eyes were feeling bleary on the way to the range this morning, but I figured it was just lack of coffee.  However, the first time I went to fire and couldn't focus at all on the sights, I realized I had the contact lens in backward on my dominant eye!  Didn't bother me too much knocking around the house and driving, but squinting in the dim light of the range, it made things very difficult.  Anyway, that's my excuse for the poor showing today, but I liken it to one of those days when you don't have the energy to workout, but go ahead and do it anyway -- usually a crappy workout, but you're still better for having done it.

Anyway, I did order a hogue hand-all grip to see if that would provide a little more surface area.  Went on easy enough.  Can't say it made it a night-and-day difference, but I'll have to shoot with a couple of more times before deciding whether I keep it or not.
Shadow_with_hoguegrip by baldrage, on Flickr

Started off with some 5X5 drills, using the edge/face time set at 4 secs, from a low ready, reloading after each 5 shot string.  Fired about one box of ammo, so 50 rounds.  Since my press out from a low ready still stinks, figure about 1.5 - 2.0 sec to get the gun up and sights on target, so that leaves about 2 seconds for 5 shots.  Results were pretty terrible as far as keeping everything in the circle, but OK at keeping everything on the paper for my first time shooting this fast.  I did notice that sights were just bouncing up a bit and coming right back down, so did a good job on grip and recoil control, but with my backward contact lens, I was really just pointing a blurry object at a blurry piece of paper ...
05072016_5X5 by baldrage, on Flickr

Next, moved to an "around the clock drill" (4 single shots clockwise, then a double-tap in the center) at 7 yards, from low ready, first shot DA, with face/edge timer set for 6 seconds, reloading after each 6 shot string.  This was challenging, especially with the DA first shot, and there were a few strings were I only got 4 shots off.  Aside from a few flyers, groupings were pretty tight, which I guess means good grip/recoil management, even though shots were off.  Once again, I struggled with bottom left target. 
05072016_aroundtheclock_( by baldrage, on Flickr

Finished with a Mozambique drill at 7 yards, from low ready, first shot DA, face/edge timer set at 4 seconds, reloading after each 3 shot string.  Did OK considering contact lens issues, but room for improvement.
 05072016_MOZAMBIQUE by baldrage, on Flickr

Then switched to Kadet/.22.  Had a lot of problems with light strikes using my Federal bulk ammo, which really threw me off on the around the clock drill (six sec face/edge, from low ready), as I was having to pull the trigger 8-9 times to try and get off 6 shots, so there were several strings were I did fire at all the targets. On the positive side, this gave me the unintended equivalent of several "ball and dummy" drills, and I'm pleased to say there was no flinch at all when any of the numerous FTF occurred.
 05072016_aroundtheclock_22 by baldrage, on Flickr

Also did my first ever Dot Torture drill.  3 yards, did OK, but using a .22 with no recoil at all on the SP01 Shadow, so definitely keeping my ego in check.  Will try with 9 mm next time out.
 05072016_DOT_DRILL by baldrage, on Flickr

Offline OlegG

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #17 on: May 08, 2016, 06:18:29 PM »
Really good results, especially on the Dot Torture drill. The low recoil of a .22 makes it easier to avoid flinching and to come back on target, but it does NOT help you to place accurate shots, so you can and should feel good - that was all you.

As far as your Kadet having numerous FTFs, it sounds strange - Kadets are supposed to be some of the most reliable and not picky .22 pistols. I have a Ruger 22/45 and with the Federal bulk ammo I get an FTE once per 300 - 400 rounds and actually never had an FTF.
Perhaps JoeL will chime in with an advice: he is using a Kadet extensively and knows the kit really well.

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2016, 07:15:30 PM »
Baldrage you're doing great and this is awesome. We all work down and throw this path to start. I'll share some resources that helped me get the grip worked out once I arrive home and it's easier than using my phone.

To your last comment. Your strong hand thumb will be up and over your weak hand thumb. That is OK and you'll see/feel why after a few of these good videos I used in figuring out this same stuff. I had the same problems,  including the inconsistent draw when I connected with weak hand up. Spent a month breaking this down step by step every night in dry fire. It paid off a lot, but I have a ways yet for my goals. Anyways, keep up the practice, it may seem a little boring but it is super rewarding in the end!

UPDATE:
Here's some videos and what not that I have really liked and found helpful as I am not far from your experience in my own practice. Each person may connect with a different trainers' styles in a different ways, so just look for the best shooters out there and see what connects with you. Some teach a little better or more clearly, but whatever you do - practice and test these out, don't just take one opinion as the end all - your forever approach.

My Favorite  Books:
Get to Work: The Practice of Getting More Points Per Second
By Steve Anderson
Steve has a unique podcast that may not have the personality for everybody. BUT the guy sure has the science of training figured out. (You can go read a book called "Peak" by Anders Ericsson on the science behind effective learning and training if you want to verify. In fact, its a great read on it's own if you really want to get the most out of your practice and not waste time.) Anyways, This is Steve's third book and his others are good (the second has an interview with Lanny Bassham that is pretty worth while on its own), but this is my favorite. Excellent to get you good drills that develop specific skills you need. Also has a great interview with Max Michel on calling the shot in this book. Also a great emphasis on stage planning and the importance of the mental game.
http://www.amazon.com/Get-Work-Practice-Points-Second/dp/0692229345/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1462753005&sr=8-1&keywords=get+to+work+steve+anderson

Practical Shooting: Beyond Fundamentals
Brian Enos
This is a foundational book of the practical shooting pistol sports. Brian really went deep and in first passing you may think this is a little on the Zen deep end. As I have been starting out in my training the sections on focus and awareness really helped me understand where I was trying too hard and what I was focusing on when shooting. While it is full of gems as you progress to higher levels and some recommend to wait to read it I find it is very helpful to start using in the beginning and incorporate what you can connect with. Brian is a little more on the side of a relaxed grip pressure compared to Rob Leatham, Mike Seeklander, and a few others. You can work that out and test it as you progress, but his natural point of aim is really helpful to check the grip you are building, no matter how hard you squeeze.
Great post by Brian on his forum on NPA that isn't in the book exactly like this:
http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=17&t=5226
His book:
http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Shooting-Fundamentals-Brian-Enos/dp/0962692506/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1462753492&sr=1-3&keywords=brian+enos

Mike Seeklander on Recoil Management:
This video helped me personally in seeing the specific ways to grip the gun. Such as the strong hand being a sort of front to back squeeze as opposed to gripping it like you would a dumb bell. So, this is as much a video about good grip as it is recoil control. Honestly now that I practice good grip I don't think about recoil at all when I am shooting. My grip comes instinctively from practice in dry fire. If my grip is too soft, then it means I need to practice a strong grip in dry fire and live fire (while not worrying about other things that this may initially throw off while I adjust to the harder grip. Steve Anderson explains this sort of specific practice very well and why it works when you give it the chance).


Mike Seeklander on developing a good grip:
Again, I really like how well Mike tries to explain the why behind what he is teaching. Ultimately this helped me figure out how to get my weak hand into the grip while drawing. Previously I was a mess and this video just helped it click for me. Especially when it has the low and to his right video angle. I saw when he actually grips and then grips hard with his weak hand. It was much further into his draw, and I was doing mine way too soon. This caused my wrist to do wrong things (lock too soon, be in the wrong position, etc.). Now, I don't end up connecting my left hand quite as soon as Mike, I end up doing so a little further out like I've seen Rob Leatham do in his draws. Both of these shooters have blazing fast draw and first shot times, so there isn't an exact right way, but this helped me get into the right pathway so I can practice and refine in the correct realm. I think Lemming mentioned that L shaped draw as opposed to a more straight line up to your vision and out once the muzzle is out of the holster and pointed down range. If I understood his comment correctly I think he is referring to this exact difference where Mike is a little more L shaped in this video and Rob Leatham has the style Lemming described.


I hope these can help. I am not a master class shooter yet, but I am trying to draw on the best shooters and trainers out there for learning and training. The guys on the forum here have helped immensely at pointing me to the best resources and giving pointers. The more you can dry fire, and the more consistently, the faster and stronger the muscle memory will build. 20 minutes a day during the weekdays will really help, I can attest to that. If you can do an hour each day you'll progress faster. It all boils down to the level of commitment you can give (and that is different for each person). Others' may have different resources that helped them, and that is great - hopefully they share them all! We all learn a little differently and hopefully something we all share can connect with you and help your progression. Practice may be boring, but you'll experience the reward when you shoot and see the improvement - boringly reliable maybe... Oh, I forgot to mention. Steve Anderson's three modes of shooting really helped me apply the Brian Enos stuff. In my first match when I started to fall apart I could immediately remind myself to go back to Match Mode and the fundamentals returned and I carried on. Although somewhat slowly, it was consistent and at my current level of skill. The matches are so much fun, start as soon as you can!
« Last Edit: May 08, 2016, 10:00:11 PM by Scarlett Pistol »
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Offline baldrage

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #19 on: May 09, 2016, 08:14:20 PM »
Really good results, especially on the Dot Torture drill. The low recoil of a .22 makes it easier to avoid flinching and to come back on target, but it does NOT help you to place accurate shots, so you can and should feel good - that was all you.

As far as your Kadet having numerous FTFs, it sounds strange - Kadets are supposed to be some of the most reliable and not picky .22 pistols. I have a Ruger 22/45 and with the Federal bulk ammo I get an FTE once per 300 - 400 rounds and actually never had an FTF.
Perhaps JoeL will chime in with an advice: he is using a Kadet extensively and knows the kit really well.

Yeah, I have had some FTFs prior, but nothing like this.  I did numerous forum searches, which led me to clean out the firing pin channel on the Kadet.  Did not seem especially dirty, but I'll give it a shot with both Fed bulk and some CCI next time out to see if that makes a difference.

Offline baldrage

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #20 on: May 09, 2016, 08:16:26 PM »
Scarlett Pistol -- thanks the tips, and the advice on the books and videos.  I had watched some of those Seeklander videos before, but will watch again with your advice in mind.  I have a feeling this is the type of thing where you can take away something different every time you watch.

Offline baldrage

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2016, 12:39:39 PM »
Live Fire (May 10)

On vacation last week, so I am posting this entry a week after the fact, and the theme of this visit was the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.

The Good:
Started off with a Dot Torture drill at 3 yards.  All of the stations that require a draw were shot from low ready, with first shot in DA.  Did very well, dropped only one shot on station 7, and that was because I was peeking at the target rather than focusing on the sight.  My first every Dot Torture drill with 9 mm, and my first time shooting 9 mm with one hand only, strong/weak hand, so very pleased. 
05102016_DOT_DRILL by baldrage, on Flickr

The Bad:
5x5 drill, 50 rounds, 4 second facing time from low ready.  Missed with 10 shot shots, so 80% hit rate.  I think almost all of the misses were from the first shot getting from low ready onto the target and DA, still really need a lot of work on this.
05102016_5X5 by baldrage, on Flickr

The Ugly:
Around the Clock Drill, 7 yards, 7 second facing time for six shots, starting from low ready with first shot DA.  Ran it three times, so 18 rounds total.  Struggled not only with first shot accuracy in DA, but at all of the stations except for the final one in the middle.  Basically, I was all of the paper in both DA and SA.  Need to work on press out/draw/DA first shot and getting a good sight picture on target transitions in dry fire practice.  I know the purpose of speed shooting drills is work at a speed where you are uncomfortable, but with results this bad, I think I will slow down the drill a bit next time out to 7.5 or 8 seconds.
 05102016_aroundtheclock by baldrage, on Flickr

The final drill:
Mozambique, 7 yards, 3 second facing time, from low ready, first shot DA.  Only had 14 rounds left, so I did four and a half iterations of this drill. Redeemed myself a bit after the horrible shooting on the around the clock drill.  Missed four shots, 2 on the head, and 2 on the body, but the 2 misses on the body were still inside the 8 ring and would have been combat effective hits.
 05102016_mozambique by baldrage, on Flickr

Switched over to the Kadet kit for some .22 work, and had total failure as it would not fire at all.  I will be posting a separate thread in the Kadet Klub section of the board to get some trouble-shooting advice from the Kadet gurus.


« Last Edit: May 16, 2016, 03:11:11 PM by baldrage »

Offline OlegG

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2016, 12:50:45 PM »
Judging from your Dot Torture Drill, you accuracy and target transitions are very good. Added time pressure causes misses. So, you are on the right track - slow down until you're making no mistakes and then move the goalpost to faster times gradually.
For the 5x5 drill - if your misses are mostly coming up on target from low ready, then spend part of the next session doing just that - single shots from low ready in DA. Get them right and then put the drill back together.
You're doing great, keep it up.

Offline baldrage

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #23 on: May 20, 2016, 08:15:13 AM »
So while on vacation last week, I watched all of the Mike Seeklander "On the Range" instructional handgun videos, not just grip/recoil management, but also trigger control, reloads, single-hand firing, etc.  Good stuff, and will make it a point to re-watch these on a regular basis.  Wife thought I was crazy for watching shooting videos sitting on the beach in the Florida Keys, but I know folks on this board would understand.   ;D

Also read Ben Stoeger's book,"Dry Fire Training for the Practical Pistol Shooter" (https://www.amazon.ca/Dry-Fire-Training-Practical-Pistol-Shooter/dp/1497319633), on the plane trip down to Florida.  Honestly, I did not find it worth the $10 I paid for the Kindle version -- it's just a list of drills that could easily be found on any competitive shooting website, with no advice on technique, etc.

Dry fire practice last night: 
- 20 wallfire (DA), focused on trigger pull and strong grip
- 20 press-out and fire (DA), from low ready, focused on grip
- 20 strong-hand only (DA), focused on tucking my elbow, as per Seeklander video on single-handed firing
- 20 weak-hand only (DA), focused on tucking elbow
- 20 fast press-out and fire (DA), target was a 3X5 sticky @ 3 yards, from low ready, used dry-fire timer app, set at 1.5 sec PAR (nice free little app, by the way, https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.csl1911a1.dryfirepartimer&hl=en)
- 20 fast press-out and fire (DA) with target transitions, targets were 3X5 sticky and a doorknob, two shots on each @ 3 yards, with 3.5 second PAR.  Made these with time to spare, will start shaving some time off of the PAR next practice session.



« Last Edit: May 20, 2016, 11:48:05 AM by baldrage »

Offline Lemming

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2016, 11:22:48 AM »
The book you should have bought for technique is this one
http://www.amazon.com/Practical-Pistol-Fundamental-Techniques-Competition/dp/1482009978

I have all three and find the dry fire book useful. But you're right - it doesn't teach technique

Sent by Jedi mind control


Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #25 on: May 21, 2016, 12:13:30 AM »
Haha while we've been on a trip my wife noticed I was running with my toddler on my shoulders in a funny way. She proceeded to make fun of me because I was practicing running smoothly with the low stance for shooting on the move. My daughter loved it because we could go fast and not jostle her a bunch. So yes, you're in good company here.
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Offline baldrage

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #26 on: May 21, 2016, 09:19:41 PM »
Dry fire practice last night -- standard routine:
- 20 wallfire (DA), focused on trigger pull and strong grip
- 20 press-out and fire (DA), from low ready, focused on grip
- 20 strong-hand only (DA), focused on tucking my elbow, as per Seeklander video on single-handed firing
- 20 weak-hand only (DA), focused on tucking elbow
- 20 fast press-out and fire (DA), target was a 3X5 sticky @ 3 yards, from low ready, used dry-fire timer app, set at 1.5 sec PAR
- 20 fast press-out and fire (DA) with target transitions, targets were 3X5 sticky and a doorknob, two shots on each @ 3 yards, reduced time by a quarter of a second from last practice to 3.25 second PAR. 

Offline baldrage

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2016, 09:16:32 PM »
Live fire practice at Elite Shooting Sports (5/22)

Started off with dot torture at 5 yards.  All the "draws" were shot DA from low ready, and all of the shots on #1 and #2 were DA.  Wow! After nearly shooting a perfect run last week at 3 yds, surprised at how much more difficult an additional 6 feet made:

05222016_dot_9mm by baldrage, on Flickr

Definitely room for improvement, and no point in moving it back any further for now.

Next up, 5X5 drill at 5 yards, from low ready, first shot DA, 3.5 second facing time.  Did OK, it's obvious I have some type of issue shooting at targets to my left, as evidenced by target on lower left.  Maybe I need to rotate my whole upper body, rather than just my arms?

05222016_5X5 by baldrage, on Flickr

Around-the-clock drill, 7 yards, from low ready, first shot DA, 7.5 second facing time.  This was so bad, I had second thoughts about posting it.  Just all over the paper, and at least one round almost off the paper completely.  This is the shooting equivalent of air-balling a free throw ...

05222016_clock_9mm by baldrage, on Flickr

Did some dry fire, focusing on grip and sight focus to try and shake off that crap-tastic drill.  Finished up 9mm with mozambique drill, 7 yards, from low ready, first shot DA, 4 second facing time.  Pretty poor, but did better than the last drill.  Shot high on all of the head shots, and again, almost missed the paper.


05222016_mozambique by baldrage, on Flickr


After stinking things up so bad with 9mm, I switched over to Kadet kit, and happy to say my previous technical problems were fixed and the Kadet ran fine, aside from the usual handful of light strikes with Federal bulk ammo.

Started with another dot torture at 5 yards, again all "draws" shot from low ready with DA.  Results were much better than first run with 9mm.  Weak-hand only was pretty bad, but I nearly cleaned all of the two-handed stations:

05222016_dot_22 by baldrage, on Flickr

Wrapped up with another run on the around-the-clock drill, 7 yards, from low ready, first shot DA, 7.5 second facing time.  Used CCI Standard Velocity ammo on this one, to minimize light strikes while racing the timer.  Results were MUCH better, although I still have problems transitioning to targets on lower left.  Obviously I have something off in my sight alignment consistently when turning slightly left to shoot, but no clue how to correct it.  Tips/suggestions?

05222016_clock_22 by baldrage, on Flickr

Overall, shameful performance with 9mm, pretty good with .22, and just glad to have my Kadet kit up and running again.

Take-aways:

1) Still struggling with first DA shot from low ready, although I thought a lot of dry-fire this week had helped, it obviously didn't.  Seems like it takes an eternity to get a sight picture in live fire, and then I am still inaccurate (usually high) once I fire.  Thinking I need to practice dry-fire with a smaller target to simulate shooting at 7 yards, as I don't actually have that much room in my basement.

2) Still need lots of dry-fire practice shooting one-handed.  Really felt wobbly when shooting at the range, but again, I wonder if this because at home, I am practicing from about 3 yards, and shooting at 5 yards at the range.  Wouldn't think a mere six feet would make a big difference, but I will try a smaller target (maybe 2X2 sticky rather than the 3X5 I had been using) and a little farther distance in dry fire this week.




Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #28 on: May 26, 2016, 01:10:11 AM »
Baldrage, it's tough. I used those resources I mentioned and I kept making progress with parts and then once I went faster all the parts fell apart. So then I had to figure out what was right and what was wrong. I knew the right parts from the resources I've mentioned and I just had to put the puzzle together. The puzzle keeps coming together more and moee, even after I make breakthroughs. This is how people develop on the path to expertise. It can be frustrating with ups and downs but perseverance in your practice and study will keep you improving. I suck compared to guys and gals on this forum. I am just going through the learning process and know how it can go. Keep up the hard work, it pays off!
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Offline Joe L

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Re: baldrage's shooting log
« Reply #29 on: May 26, 2016, 07:02:26 AM »
The way I learned to shoot the DA first shot was to go to the range and only shoot DA for maybe 50-100 rounds.  Very slowly at first.  Looks like you are pushing the DA shots left even with the .22 slide.  I also experimented with trigger finger position.  For me, when I shot left, I had the trigger finger too shallow.  I moved in just a little deeper and could pull the trigger straight back just a little more consistently.  You might experiment with trigger finger placement some. 

For the high shots on the lower left, maybe you are feeling rushed near the end of the sequence and just releasing the shot just hair early?  Before you see the sight lower to the proper alignment?  Perhaps give it .1 second longer? 

I'm not much help here.  Been 3 years since I have tried to do what you are doing.  I am very glad you got your Kadet running, however.   :) :)

Joe

CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C