Author Topic: What happened to 38 super  (Read 4180 times)

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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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What happened to 38 super
« on: October 01, 2016, 01:29:46 AM »
From what I've read 40 S&W replaced it... But why? Pistols in 38 super have higher capacity than the same pistols chambered in 40 S&W. Bullets are cheaper/more economical for reloading. The same bullets can be used for 9mm and 38 super reloading. It makes major power factor. I just don't see the reason people left it for 40 S&W besides following the FBI...
    Let's hear it. The good, the bad, the ugly. Will this cartridge ever make a comeback?
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Offline TScottW99

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2016, 05:49:11 AM »
I've always wanted one in a 1911 platform. I know Dan Wesson and Colt still make 38 super pistols along with several custom builders.

Not sure why it's not more popular. It was 357 sig before there was a 357 sig. I like the 357 sig also.
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Offline The Conservative

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2016, 08:25:29 AM »
Great little round.  It has always been sort of a niche cartridge.  The problem is the long cartridge overall length and being semi rimmed does not lend itself well to being double stacked, big grip.  If Hilarity forces 10 round limits across the board, some supers may be in my future.  Another problem is brass is like gold.  No range pickups.
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Offline Danjoe

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2016, 09:55:06 AM »
I've got a couple of 1911's in .38 Super, and I think it's a great little round. It was originally the .357 Magnum that replaced it. It's a little tricky to load the Super to major and remain within reasonable SAAMI pressures, which can be an issue if you're around any older handguns. It was really popular with IPSC, and you still see them around. It's also all but useless if you don't handload, not much in the way of factory loadings. As far as a comeback, I don't think it will ever be incredibly popular, but I don't think it will go away either.

Offline Stuart

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2016, 10:25:40 AM »
One of.my favorite cartridges to shoot. Really versatile to reload for too.

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2016, 11:57:24 AM »
Back "in the day".  Back during the gangster shootouts, the bank robber shoot outs, etc. They found the .45 acp just didn't penetrate the thicker steel used in car bodies of the late 20's into the 30's.

The .38 Super was the answer.  It's smaller FMJ bullet at a higher velocity in the 1911 guns that many law enforcement agencies were already used to did the job.  Did you know they even made some Thompson sub machine guns in .38 Super?  Not many, but I'll bet it turned a car into swiss cheese pretty quick.

It's an easy way to get high capacity and more velocity than a 9MM, but it never really gained a lot of popularity except with certain kinds of match shooters.  I know a guy at work who used to load them for whatever type of matches he was shooting at the time.  His buddies used the same caliber, too.

Sort of a dying cartridge considering the emphasis put on getting 9MM bullets to go faster and penetrate deeper and mushroom larger, etc., etc., etc.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2016, 01:04:17 PM »
Thanks for all the responses and insight. Sounds like bad timing against other cartridges more than anything else. If 357 sig is about the same (little faster?),  and a few of you mentioned that cartridge,  is it gaining popularity or is it puttering along too?
   I've seen tanfoglio pistols in 38 super, but have there ever been any CZ's converted to 38 super? I've seen a few mentions of 357 sig CZ's in the past. Are they not around much simply because 357 isn't too popular?
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Offline M1A4ME

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2016, 04:00:22 PM »
Fairly often I see people say the extra velocity of the .357 SIG (over the 9MM) isn't necessary.  Then, in another post or thread, they'll recommend 9mm +P or +P+ to get more velocity from the 9MM.  Funny, sort of.

The .38 Super should give you the same number of rounds in the gun as the 9MM.  The .357 SIG would give you the same number of rounds as a .40 S&W (or less for the same size gun/magazine.

Neither are all that popular these days.  I like the .357 SIG, but then I liked the .357 magnum with 125 grain hollow points.  The muzzle blast/recoil wasn't bothersome at all, even in the 2&3/4" Ruger Speed Six.  I have a couple .357 SIG pistols, neither one is very accurate (a Glock and an M&P) but I don't blame the cartridge.  One of these days I'll get a .357 SIG barrel fitted to a .40 CZ.  Probably a P09 (for the extra barrel length and magazine capacity.)

I'm not a competition shooter.  I do read (on a forum) about folks who do compete and shoot a 9MM loaded up to make a certain power factor.  It seems some of them only load the brass once or twice as it evidently weakens the brass enough they don't trust loading it again.  I can't imagine that would be for a gun either, but who knows.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline GeneticallySwiss

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2016, 07:06:12 PM »
I don't know anyone who carries a pistol in .38 Super.  Seen alot of them in IPSC though.  And alot of Mexicans like it because it is a legal cartridge in Mexico.
For that matter, it is a crying shame that 9x23 Winchester never took off.  Truly a great round.  .357 magnum ballistics with the magazine capacity of a 9x19. 

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Offline jameslovesjammie

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2016, 07:37:53 PM »

Offline ThompsonCustom

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2016, 08:15:50 PM »
I think 38 super and 38 super comp are both great rounds and they are used in some uspsa open division guns.

Never been a fan of 357 sig, less capacity for the same thing i can do with a 9mm major round.
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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2016, 08:37:16 PM »
I've been carrying a Dan Wesson Guardian in 38 Super for many years, it's my preferred carry piece when carrying OWB under a jacket or heavy shirt.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2016, 07:49:29 PM by Ron M. »

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2016, 08:37:59 PM »
As an add to my previous post.....

Someone on that other forum started a thread about cracking the slide on his semi-auto pistol shooting "9MM Major" ammo in it.

Upshot of that post was that the issue of cracked slides from shooting that ammo is some people consider it par for the course while others have never seen it, some use those polymer shock buffs in their pistols, some don't, etc., etc.

One person did say that there are a couple of pistols that don't get cracked slides from shooting 9MM Major ammo and those are CZs and one of the CZ clones.  Then someone else posted that he'd seen the clone brand crack at least one slide.

If you're going to "super charge" something you're going to put more stress on it and it's going to fail sooner.  How soon is a matter of quality of the parts, quality of the build and luck.

Like a car.  Build up the motor and you'll tear up the transmission/rear end sooner or later.  I watched my youngest son do that a couple of times. 

Another example is in the owner's manual for my car (and I'm sure others built for similar purposes).  307 hp 3.8 liter V6 = change oil/oil filter every 7,500 miles.  285 hp 2.0 liter turbocharged 4 cylinder = change oil/oil filter every 5,800 miles.  Now, tell me the turbocharged engine isn't seeing more "abuse" than the normally aspirated engine.

Just like guns.  Run store bought 9MM ammo or store bought +P or +P+ ammo.  Which ones will increase wear and tear on your handgun vs. the others?  You want a magnum?  Buy one.  It's built for the cartridge.
I just keep wasting time and money on other brands trying to find/make one shoot like my P07 and P09.  What is wrong with me?

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2016, 09:00:08 PM »
      Dang, this thread started making me think that one day I'll need a pistol in 38 super. Then.... I had to read the post by GeneticallySwiss and go do some reading on the 9x23 Winchester. A modern, stronger, more powerful version of the 38 Super (more or less). Sounds like a lawsuit killed the time to market and then it never got a foot hold. That is too bad because it sounds like it would be fantastic!
      Anyone know if the 38 Super Tanfoglio barrels could handle the full pressure rounds of the 9x23 Winchester? I couldn't find any shops listed as making pistols in 9x23 Winchester or even making conversions for them.... Anyone know if those exist? Sounds like a neat round! What a great thread this is, I love posting in this forum and getting to learn all these interesting facts.

     An excellent clarification M1A4ME, and always a needed reminder. Sure, running things harder can work, but it just puts the wear and tear on faster. Better to go with the product designed to take the extra abuse. Even computers have that same issue, people pushing processors past the levels they are meant to be run at over long term and burning up their hardware way faster. Cars, guns, computers, so on and so on.
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Offline Rhino

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Re: What happened to 38 super
« Reply #14 on: October 10, 2016, 02:28:03 AM »
I guess you could go 9x21, more power/velocity but not a grenade either. Should be able to rechamber most 9x19 to shoot it I think.