Author Topic: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s  (Read 8439 times)

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Offline Headspace

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BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« on: January 11, 2017, 09:31:35 AM »
Having done a basic site search I only came across a couple of mentions for this type of trigger for the EVO.

The trigger pack seems to have plenty of room for a 2nd disconnector. Would a custom disconnector coupled with a new 3 position safety selector be all you'd need to go Binary?

I'm no engineer. Just asking questions to you all who may be more well informed than myself.

Anyone else interested in this type of trigger system?

Seems like it would really let this PCC shine and lighten my wallet at the same time.  ;D


Offline GIGANTORE

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2017, 09:45:28 AM »
Having done a basic site search I only came across a couple of mentions for this type of trigger for the EVO.

The trigger pack seems to have plenty of room for a 2nd disconnector. Would a custom disconnector coupled with a new 3 position safety selector be all you'd need to go Binary?

I'm no engineer. Just asking questions to you all who may be more well informed than myself.

Anyone else interested in this type of trigger system?

Seems like it would really let this PCC shine and lighten my wallet at the same time.  ;D

Man, binary trigger option is the only thing that made me consider the MPX over the EVO. If we could get BFS (or anyone else) to make a binary trigger, this thing would ROCK.

Offline Netpackrat

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2017, 10:58:08 PM »
Not only no, but hell no.

Offline Headspace

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2017, 08:54:39 PM »
My replies in red

Having done a basic site search I only came across a couple of mentions for this type of trigger for the EVO.

The trigger pack seems to have plenty of room for a 2nd disconnector. Would a custom disconnector coupled with a new 3 position safety selector be all you'd need to go Binary?

I haven't given it a lot of thought, but I don't think so.

At minimum, it would also likely need a proprietary bolt too, unless the 2nd disconnect could be made to engage the existing one, which is doubtful without turning it into a full auto entirely.

If you look at how the binary triggers work, and then look at how the scorpion is made, there are a lot of differences to have to overcome.


My assumption was space available in the EVO trigger pack compared to an AR's. I hadn't considered the bolt as well.

Thanks for the response and explanation.



Offline Headspace

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2017, 02:26:22 PM »
Surfing over on ARF.com and came across this post from Franklin aromory;

"On another note, we will be announcing and showing prototypes for TWO new platforms for the BFSIII at SHOT Show on Tuesday. These new triggers will not be ready for sale just yet, but we hope to be able to start taking orders and shipping by the time we go the NRA convention."

http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_3_118/697945_Franklin-Armory-Gen-3-BFS-Released----Update-08-31-Triggers-are-shipping----.html&page=15&anc=bottom#bottom (posted yesterday/ mid page)

One can hope the Scorpion is one of the NEW platforms.

Keep your fingers crossed guys!  ;D

Offline GIGANTORE

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2017, 03:44:04 PM »
Interesting. What a game changer that would be. I'd settle for an E-trigger as well.

Offline akuser47

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2017, 06:51:43 PM »
I'd love a binary for my evo.  I don't see it as needed, but I didn't need this platform either and I still love.

Offline Manticore_Arms

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2017, 08:09:34 PM »
I would almost put money on one of them being for the AK.

I would agree.

I suspect at some point we will see a binary style trigger for the EVO, but it will likely be a while.  I think we are more likely to see a lower pull "match grade" trigger from a company first (no, not us, just my take on what we will see from other companies in the future)

Sven
manticore arms

Offline excalibur

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2017, 11:25:05 AM »
It looks like the ECHO trigger is more stable than the Binary trigger. Sounds cool but not sure if the selector was meant to go to a 3rd position for the S1 model.

Offline akuser47

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2017, 01:49:52 PM »
I would almost put money on one of them being for the AK.

I would agree.

I suspect at some point we will see a binary style trigger for the EVO, but it will likely be a while.  I think we are more likely to see a lower pull "match grade" trigger from a company first (no, not us, just my take on what we will see from other companies in the future)

Sven
manticore arms
I agree, it's not been imported in profound numbers yet like our ar15 rifles. So a company to spend the R&D and setup for such a venture would need a predictable future investment return. Currently I just doubt the buyers are there or the rifles to make it profitable. I can dream though. lol

Offline Headspace

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2017, 08:21:40 PM »
 :-[ So much for my prognosticating skillz..........

Franklin Armory;

"Our Two New Binary trigger models are for the Bushmaster ACR and the HK platforms! Come and stop by our booth #20432 and check them out!"

https://www.facebook.com/franklin.armory/photos/pb.240937162706026.-2207520000.1484702287./953810918085310/?type=3&theater
 

Offline Thrillbilly

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #11 on: September 04, 2017, 11:58:17 PM »
It's been a while since I've seen posts about this.  Any new rumblings of someone making a binary upgrade? 

Offline Asmodeus

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2017, 01:50:41 PM »
It looks like the ECHO trigger is more stable than the Binary trigger. Sounds cool but not sure if the selector was meant to go to a 3rd position for the S1 model.

The trigger pack housing has a half moon cut and the selector uses a roll pin to dictate it's course of travel.  Simply measure the amount of sweep you need, and trim that out of the pack housing.  The trick will be modifying the safety drum that spans the pack housing and making it drive a second disconnector.  Or, not.  And it will have to have some tricky dynamics where the second disconnector falls back to the first if you flip it off of binary function.  That's the hard stuff. 

If the FCG parts were available at even quasi realistic prices I'd already have one going.

The real trick is probably going to be keying in the FPS arm as a sear trip for added protection of OOB strikes stopping the gun if you get ahead of the lockup. 

There is enough clearance between the release of the disconnector hook of the hammer (with a slight reduction in nose profile) and the trigger hooks catching it to allow the hammer to release and near miss the trigger hooks on release.  A 30-35 thou shim under the disconnector foot is a good place to start.  When shimming to pull out the slop in the FCG you will find this magical zone when you go just a hair too far.  Dry runs proved it will ignite on release as the FPS is still depressed enough at this point of travel to allow the firing pin to strike. 

I'm unaware of the legality - and what is required to ensure you stay out of the grey areas on this subject so I just let it go.  But since it's a dual hook trigger, modifying one disconnector to release so it gets caught, and another hook to not - could give you primary / secondary disconnector function without complicated mechanisms.  Getting the secondary to kick down to the primary (SA) disco is the one I can't think my way through.  Keep in mind the majority of this subject could be used / misinterpreted for another purpose.  But from what I can tell, not reliably, or even remotely safely...





Quite frankly, a binary would be perfect for the little Scorp.  They get going plenty good without the retarded bump fire nonsense junking up the gun.  I don't think making one for the Scorpion would be remotely difficult to do.  But there is absolutely no clarification out there on what keeps it on the right side of the law.  What mechanisms it has to have to prevent Ricky Bobby from removing parts and getting himself in trouble.  I proposed a group think project - to see if we could engineer it, and then just have one of the major companies doing them to pick it up and make it for us.  But, nobody really seemed to bite.  Everyone here has this gun and a pair of eyes.  The pack housing comes out in 10 seconds...
« Last Edit: September 05, 2017, 02:19:39 PM by Asmodeus »

Offline akuser47

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #13 on: September 06, 2017, 08:38:56 PM »
None yet sadly, and we all can only wait to see if there is a manufacturer brave enough to make the investment yet.

Offline Thrillbilly

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Re: BFS/ ECHO type trigger for your EVO ?'s
« Reply #14 on: September 06, 2017, 10:34:34 PM »

Quite frankly, a binary would be perfect for the little Scorp.  They get going plenty good without the retarded bump fire nonsense junking up the gun.  I don't think making one for the Scorpion would be remotely difficult to do.  But there is absolutely no clarification out there on what keeps it on the right side of the law.  What mechanisms it has to have to prevent Ricky Bobby from removing parts and getting himself in trouble.  I proposed a group think project - to see if we could engineer it, and then just have one of the major companies doing them to pick it up and make it for us.  But, nobody really seemed to bite.  Everyone here has this gun and a pair of eyes.  The pack housing comes out in 10 seconds...

I really want to see a binary option for this weapon. I wish I had the engineering knowledge to make it happen.  But, I would be happy to volunteer time and other talents to help pitch a blueprinted prototype or concept to a company that is in a position, and licensed to, manufacture it.

My gut tells me that one of the CZ focused machine shops would be most interested in offering a solution. They have the most experience with the Scorpion firing group, and total market penetration so there would be little marketing outlay required to begin selling them in bulk. Otherwise, an existing producer of AR style systems might take up the mantel.

The market has shown that a price point between $300-$450 is viable. So there is some real incentive to produce a product., even with the relatively small initial customer base. It's a new and exciting platform that is likely to flourish for decades to come. This is quickly becoming "America's favorite Sub-gun". A binary trigger will make the Scorpion a must have, driving sales for both the gun and the part.

« Last Edit: September 06, 2017, 10:41:08 PM by Thrillbilly »

 

anything