Author Topic: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted  (Read 2721 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline John A.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1214
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #30 on: June 24, 2017, 10:57:26 PM »
Stamps after 2015 sometime are refunded.

I would have several that wouldn't be refunded.

But I don't care.  I still support passing HPA.
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline Earl Keese

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1620
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #31 on: June 24, 2017, 11:10:13 PM »
So are there any deals to be had on suppressors yet? I'm ready to get my feet wet...

Offline czphan35

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 32
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #32 on: July 05, 2017, 06:05:10 PM »
Ohhh yea. I got a threaded barrel for my 75c that's just waiting to have a can on it  8)
CZ 805 Bren S1 Carbine | CZ 75 Compact

Offline armoredman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17084
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2017, 10:40:02 PM »
So I'm told another bill was introduced today or yesterday that would completely deregulate suppressors, but the only current story I can find is this one from CNNMoney, which is, considering the source, isn't too far unbalanced. It states that there are two HPA, one in the Senate and one in the House....and I can't find that any actions have been taken yet.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/21/news/companies/silencer-hearing-protection-act/index.html

If someone else has more up to date info, please let us know.

Offline jameslovesjammie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4410
  • The Last Best Place
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #34 on: July 06, 2017, 12:08:44 AM »
They have touched on it in different episodes of The Gun Collective on YouTube.  If you're not a sub, you really should.

This episode is over 4 months old, but most of what they say hasn't changed.


Offline gwvt

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 410
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #35 on: July 06, 2017, 08:31:28 PM »
I didn't see any Senate bills and usually they go from HR to SR but, yes, there is this:

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/3139?r=23

H.R.3139 - To provide that silencers be treated the same as firearms accessories.

Sponsor:    Rep. King, Steve [R-IA-4] (Introduced 06/29/2017)
Committees:    House - Ways and Means; Judiciary
Latest Action:    06/29/2017 Referred to the Committee on Ways and Means, and in addition to the Committee on the Judiciary, for a period to be subsequently determined by the Speaker, in each case for consideration of such provisions as fall within the jurisdiction of the committee concerned.

We will see but this is encouraging as it seemed that the HPA was dead in the water...

BTW, to browse legislative actions go to:
https://www.congress.gov/search?q={%22source%22:%22legislation%22}

So I'm told another bill was introduced today or yesterday that would completely deregulate suppressors, but the only current story I can find is this one from CNNMoney, which is, considering the source, isn't too far unbalanced. It states that there are two HPA, one in the Senate and one in the House....and I can't find that any actions have been taken yet.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/21/news/companies/silencer-hearing-protection-act/index.html

If someone else has more up to date info, please let us know.

Offline whiskeybravo

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
But, what about ....
« Reply #36 on: August 06, 2017, 03:11:58 PM »
I am a responsible owner of firearms, just as so many others reading this. But, my opinion on this topic is very mixed.  I expect some blow-back to what I post here. Here are some things I want to point out.

1. The "happy path" to envisioning using a suppressor (as a norm) can occur only if you're surrounded by 100% other shooters who are equipped in the same fashion. Otherwise, you have to be alone out in the country where open shooting is more permissive, or you must be alone out in a woods somewhere by yourself. But what about the other shooting scenarios that I suspect are more common place for the rest of us? We have to settle for going to an open-air State Range or a gun club or a public shooting facility, such as Point Blank.  And, in these cases, we'll be surrounded by a mix of shooters. Most of them wouldn't have invested in suppressors for any number of reasons, including this one.

2. If suppressors become much more accessible (i.e. much cheaper, and nearly free of any government license-cost), think about the risk of how they may be used in a criminal capacity. That nagging element in society would just love to get his hands on one to quietly "take somebody out" -- and there would be virtually no audible detection to the rounds being fired.

3. Why is anyone convincing themselves the price of a suppressor (government fee aside) would drop down to some sort of "everyday-Joe affordable price"? Have you seen the price of your ammo drop like a rock since a Republican got to be President?  Have you seen the price of your favorite pistols drop at all? I have not seen that.

I would like some replies back to these points I've laid out here. Because, when you add them up together, it strikes me that this could be a bad deal for the good guys, and great deal for the bad guys.

Cheers.





Offline Ron M.

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 174
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #37 on: August 06, 2017, 03:36:15 PM »
!. I can only speak for myself, but I really don't like wearing hearing protection when hunting. I hunt feral hogs at least twice a month, mostly at night. Not being able to clearly hear what's going on around me, especially at night, makes me not take shots I should. If I hear an unidentifiable sound I won't shoot, ear plugs tend to cause this. I can't use muffs due to them getting caught on brush while stocking.  A modulator makes hunting much safer. I have a modulator for use with my a 308 and 300Blk, that really helps.

2 I don't know how to respond to this other than that's nonsense. Modulators don't silence a gunshot, they reduce the sound level, but it's still it's plenty loud. You're also going to very clearly hear a supersonic crack from most rifle ammo.

3, Take a look at AR prices and tell me that again. Ammo prices have come down if you buy in bulk, 5 years ago you weren't going to get 500 rounds of 9mm for less than $100. Pistol prices have dropped too, Just picked up a new Sig P220 Combat for $622 from Bud's. You have to pay attention and use a price monitor like Slick Guns, but prices are dropping for most mid-range guns. Ruger, Remington, and Smith & Wesson are all offering rebates to keep sales up. Top drawer guns are still going to cost you more for hand fitting.

Offline jameslovesjammie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4410
  • The Last Best Place
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #38 on: August 06, 2017, 03:37:15 PM »
1.  Correct, but if more people had access to them, more people would use them.

2.  They pose the same risk they pose right now.  Suppressors have been on the market for over 100 years now.  There are more of them out there than you probably realize.  Before 1934, you could get them delivered to your door from Sears.  And you really need to do more research on suppressors.  They are far from undetectable like you see in movies.  If the round is faster than the speed of sound, you will still get a supersonic crack.  Some suppressors and cartridge combinations are still louder than what is recommended to shoot without hearing protection, but still greatly reduce damage to your ears.

It's just like a muffler for your car.  Right now, most of us are running without mufflers.  But with an exhaust system inplace, you can still hear that your truck is running.

3.  Supply and demand.  And the cost of MANY firearms and ammunition has dropped since the election.  Right now the firearms industry is in the "Trump Slump".  Companies are laying off workers because demand is down so much.  Some companies are down 25% in sales, and that is huge.

And bad guys don't obey the law anyway.  This won't affect them one bit.  Who it does affect are millions of law abiding citizens who are having to go through unnecessary bureaucracy and a year's plus wait for something that is an accessory.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 03:39:07 PM by jameslovesjammie »

Offline John A.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1214
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #39 on: August 06, 2017, 03:49:50 PM »
Bad guys are going to be bad regardless. 

Guns, bombs strapped to their chests, delivery trucks, baseball bats, Molotov cocktails, sticks and stones, roving gangs, etc etc etc.

Telling a lie has never stopped the anti 2A agenda anytime in the past, and if anything, they like to see who can "one up" the last lie with an even bigger and more unbelievable lie the next time they get on the 6 o'clock news.

This will not change with or without responsible silencer ownership.  I stopped cowering a long time ago.  I'm not hiding from anything.

Further, I have designed and built several silencers.

I do shoot at a private range because, well, it's my private range.  I don't have to deal with any more stupidity than I want to deal with.  I can shoot as fast or slow and walk out and change my target any time that I want to.  I don't need some RSO to hold my hand.

It's pretty obvious that based on some of your comments about "silent assasinations" or however you phrased it, are based on incorrect beliefs about how silencers really sound. 

As to your last point about comparing the price and availability of guns (or silencers) would hold true.

There are MANY major countries who don't even regulate silencers at all. 

The HPA doesn't even promote that if you actually read the proposed bill. 

They'll still be regulated, just like any other gun.  Background checks and all.  The HPA doesn't stop any of that.  Just the 12 month + backlog wait time down to the current NICS 4473 background check that currently exists because it's a better system than the one that is in place that's nearly 100 years old and been outdated for the last 30 years or more.

Back in 1934 when the law was enacted, knowing that everyone had unique fingerprints was state of the art, so they required fingerprints.

They knew that the local police knew who their troublemakers were, so they added that the police should sign the back of the form saying they're not wanted by the law.

I don't know where the passport photos came into being.  I wasn't aware of that even being a requirement in the beginning.

But in short, there weren't unique social security numbers, instant background checks and super computers that can access tens of thousands of names almost instantly like there are now.  If you listen to "the left" the current background system "works".

So why wouldn't it work just as well for adding another thing to have background checks for?

The main reason there is a $200 tax in the first place is because at the time (in 1934 when the law was made) was nothing less than putting the cost of the item out of reach of the common person because the $200 tax was the equivalent of about $3500 tax in todays terms.  So, it was a ban to circumvent ownership to anyone except big corporations and the rich.  Not much unlike how the politicians of today works too.

Heck, you could buy a shotgun in sears and roebuck catalog and have it delivered to your home by the post office for less than $20, but if you wanted to saw off the barrel to less than 18 inches, you had to pay the government $200.

A whopping 1000% markup of more than the gun was worth in the first place.

So, the only way those crooked politicians could circumvent the Constitution without the Supreme Court throwing it out altogether was to not ban them, but to tax them out of existence.

Or so they had hoped, but they're more prevelant today than they were 60 or 70 years ago.

I had my FFL's for nearly a decade, and I have more than a half dozen NFA items including machineguns and silencers.  I believe in following the rules and being a responsible owner.

I will say that I am not a fan of the NFA as a whole.

And the HPA is strongly needed.
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline John A.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1214
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #40 on: August 06, 2017, 04:27:06 PM »








When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1780
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #41 on: August 06, 2017, 07:34:37 PM »
Without going into a 2 page dissertation I'll just keep it real simple so even a cave man can understand it. The NFA and GCA 68 are pure crap as are all other restrictive gun laws. If a person wants a silencer,suppressor,can or what ever else you care to call it there should be no restriction buying it. Criminals will be criminals no matter what restrictions we impose upon ourselves.
The notion that crime would increase is pure idiocy. Maybe just check out the murder rate in Chicago last year and find out how many SILENCERS were used.

Offline tact

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 48
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #42 on: August 07, 2017, 11:49:05 AM »
I own multiple cans and the time and money spent to acquire those accessories is ridiculous.  Having said that I'm pretty happy I ran down that road.  However, they should indeed be treated like an accessory and as such one should have the ability to purchase them over the counter just as they do in Europe.  Sadly I have little to no faith the HPA will pass and as mentioned in other posts I'm sure Congress will find a way to screw it up anyway.  On the flip side, since everyone seems to be waiting for this thing to pass the suppressor industry is taking a hit.  Workers are getting laid off and prices are dropping a bit.  I imagine the turn around time for stamps is starting to come down a bit as well.  If one is on the fence about going down NFA road don't wait for this thing to pass.  Even if it does we are supposed to get a credit for the stamp retroactively......supposedly. 

Offline armoredman

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 17084
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #43 on: August 07, 2017, 12:13:54 PM »
I think we've answered that series of questions adequately.
I have seen HPA fail on it's own and attached to a bigger Sportsman's bill that has equally gone nowhere. If you want it - contact your elected officials. They only understand one thing - unemployment. Support this action or I will help you to unemployment.

Offline The Guardian

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 66
  • Always watching...
Re: I would like to see the Hearing Protection Act enacted
« Reply #44 on: August 17, 2017, 07:54:37 PM »
How about you? Suppressors over the counter? I'm all for it.

Should be a no brainer....so I'm sure there will be hysteria in the chambers of law-makers, figuring out how to vote based on some poll  ::)
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." — John Wayne as J.B. Books in "The Shootist" (1976)