Author Topic: New grip workout for shooters  (Read 2431 times)

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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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New grip workout for shooters
« on: February 16, 2017, 02:53:04 PM »
    So grip strength training is important for pistol shooting. A common implement are the Captains of Crush, or similar tools. I've used them and they are great! But I was thinking... These are strengthening the motion of squeezing and holding, but the pistol moves in a specific direction against your fingers, which activates muscles in a seemingly different way than only using the Captains of Crush style trainers. Now, this is me just analyzing... I'm not a physical therapist with expertise in muscle groups and bio-mechanics, so I could be all wrong. But here's what I am going to try.

Take one of these parts that is made to wedge between doors and door frames and hold resistance bands.


Put it into place per the instructions. As for height put it about 12" or so below the height of where you hold your pistol.



Now loop a resistance band through. The choice in band resistance is up to you.



Now I am using a hammer. Turn in it upside down and looping the band's handles around the hammer head. Use whatever implement you'd like to accomplish this concept. It would be awesome if I could get a blue gun and mount a steel rod up into the handle and make a loop on the bottom of the rod. Oh man, someone do that and if this works you'll make a sh*t ton of money. Just send me a few of them for taking the idea. Anyway, now grip the hammer and bring it up to simulate your grip for holding a pistol. I focus on a strong hand front to back grip that directly opposes the motion of a pistol in recoil. Do as you like, but the closer to your grip and the way you hold out your arm in real life shooting the more accurately you'll target the desired muscle groups. Now I am letting the hammer head forward toward the door and I pull it back. Doing reps and then holding. I'm also trying to not use my trigger finger. Do strong and weak hands to cross train.




I'm going to do this for a few weeks. See how it goes and see what nuances I discover, things to change, etc. If anyone gives it a try let me know how it goes!

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"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Offline rhart

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2017, 05:24:46 PM »
A Glock with a 32-round mag might work instead of the hammer.

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2017, 07:28:43 PM »
A Glock with a 32-round mag might work instead of the hammer.
Ha, funny you mention that. I have a 30 rounder for CZ's and was thinking about trying it right after I posted this. I'll give it a try and see how it goes/holds up.

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"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Offline ThompsonCustom

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2017, 07:38:30 PM »
looks like it would be good to build up the wrist.
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Offline SlvrDragon50

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2017, 07:59:58 PM »
I honestly don't see much purpose in this. The gripping motion in this is just ulnar deviation which you don't really ever do while shooting. Your description of grip trainers is why I don't feel all too strongly about them because you do sustained holds rather than repetitions during shooting.

If you want to build up your ulnar deviator muscles (Extensor carpi ulnaris), you're far better off just doing hammer curls. For more applicable grip strength training, you can incorporate farmer walks (you can leave your index finger off the weight if you truly desire, but it will not make that big of a difference).

Offline rhart

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #5 on: February 16, 2017, 11:22:51 PM »
I honestly don't see much purpose in this. The gripping motion in this is just ulnar deviation which you don't really ever do while shooting. Your description of grip trainers is why I don't feel all too strongly about them because you do sustained holds rather than repetitions during shooting.

If you want to build up your ulnar deviator muscles (Extensor carpi ulnaris), you're far better off just doing hammer curls. For more applicable grip strength training, you can incorporate farmer walks (you can leave your index finger off the weight if you truly desire, but it will not make that big of a difference).

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a farmer walk?

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2017, 12:12:51 AM »
I honestly don't see much purpose in this. The gripping motion in this is just ulnar deviation which you don't really ever do while shooting. Your description of grip trainers is why I don't feel all too strongly about them because you do sustained holds rather than repetitions during shooting.

If you want to build up your ulnar deviator muscles (Extensor carpi ulnaris), you're far better off just doing hammer curls. For more applicable grip strength training, you can incorporate farmer walks (you can leave your index finger off the weight if you truly desire, but it will not make that big of a difference).

Hold please... You have a wealth of knowledge, I just need to go do some reading on anatomy so I can better understand and then ask better questions.
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Offline IDescribe

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2017, 12:16:39 AM »
I agree that the exercise in the OP video isn't going to be useful for shooting.  Just gripping the pistol as hard as you can without trembling or losing finger dexterity is what's going to lock everything down as best it can be.  There are better options to increase grip strength.


This is the previously mentioned farmer's carry/walk:





I do these 3 days/week.  You can also do them with dumbbells, but they're much easier with dumbbells, so I opt for the specialized farmers bars that take more from you to keep stabilized.  Great for grip.  Great for traps.


I also use the Captains of Crush grip trainers.  While it's true you don't do reps in shooting, increased grip strength is increased grip strength.  And if you want to use them in an isometric hold for sustained grip, there's nothing stopping you from doing so -- I sometimes do.  And I also, after exhaustion, use my free hand to help close them, then do a slow eccentric release.   You can increase your grip strength significantly with these.

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2017, 01:49:37 AM »
Alright, this is pass one at some anatomy so I can hopefully get the most out of SlvrDragon50  since I know his expertise is in this field.

      For grip strength,  muscles that cause flexion in the finger joints are strengthened. Extension shouldn't be neglected, obviously. From a little crash course there a few muscles in the anterior forearm that flex different joints as well and different fingers. I am guessing working different fingers individually  is only necessary for improving dexterity and control.
     
     Now, when the pistol fires and goes into recoil we hear about "locking our wrists". From what I am learning,  if my forearm and hand are out in front of me, so that my palm is facing up and flat, and then I rotate my wrist so the inside side with my pinky rotates inwards (with my right hand it would rotate counter clockwise). This movement is called adduction or ulnar Deviation. I had to watch this video for these movements and their names to become totally clear.



    To counter recoil, not only do our fingers need strong flexion strength, but we need strong forearm muscles related to adduction. Not because we want adduction while shooting, but because we do not want the opposite motion to happen, which is abduction (when the muzzle rises because our wrists rotate upwards with recoil).  I would assume those muscles responsible for adduction being strengthened and capable of sustained holds would be beneficial?
      Am I getting close to understanding the anatomy and corresponding biomechanics? 1) grip strength for muscles responsible for finger joint flexion and 2) wrist locking strength with muscles responsible for wrist adduction or ulnar Deviation?


 


« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 01:55:12 AM by Scarlett Pistol »
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Offline rhart

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2017, 08:13:09 AM »
I agree that the exercise in the OP video isn't going to be useful for shooting.  Just gripping the pistol as hard as you can without trembling or losing finger dexterity is what's going to lock everything down as best it can be.  There are better options to increase grip strength.


This is the previously mentioned farmer's carry/walk:

I do these 3 days/week.  You can also do them with dumbbells, but they're much easier with dumbbells, so I opt for the specialized farmers bars that take more from you to keep stabilized.  Great for grip.  Great for traps.


I also use the Captains of Crush grip trainers.  While it's true you don't do reps in shooting, increased grip strength is increased grip strength.  And if you want to use them in an isometric hold for sustained grip, there's nothing stopping you from doing so -- I sometimes do.  And I also, after exhaustion, use my free hand to help close them, then do a slow eccentric release.   You can increase your grip strength significantly with these.

Cool, thanks. I also did these as a kid with five gallon buckets of water carried to the barn to water the livestock, which was about 50-60 yards from the hand pump next to the house. Seemed like a 150-yard carry to a young me. Of course the handles on those buckets were very small diameters compared to a barbell which maybe effected strength developed. I'd bet a barbell with grips molded to the shape of a handgun grip would be best.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 08:37:45 AM by rhart »

Offline IDescribe

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2017, 10:20:10 AM »
STOP

 ;)  ;)  ;)  ;)  ;)  ;)  ;)  ;)  ;)

You're going about this wrong.   You have been taught how to perform hundreds of physical actions in your lifetime with neither descriptions of muscles nor modes and planes of movement.   

This next part is not technique.  This is so you can see what's going on.  Hold your strong hand out in front of you, thumb-side of your hand upward, but hand and arm relaxed.  This is the neutral hand position.   Now, keeping that arm and hand relaxed, take your weak hand and move the strong hand up and down at the wrist the way the gun would move under recoil.  Again, no fist.  Relax the hand and arm.  Use the weak hand to move your strong hand up and down.  NOW make a hard fist with your strong hand and try the same thing.  Wrist doesn't move?  That's the lesson.  Of course, YOU can CHOOSE to move the hand up and down with a hard fist, but it's no longer a soft wrist.  The act of making a fist tightens that wrist into place.   Hard fist = hard wrist.   If you like, you can do the same thing and start with a relaxed fist, letting the weak hand move that wrist up and down, then slowly tighten the strong hand fist so that you can feel the wrist tighten up.   

That's how you lock down the wrist -- make a fist.  Or in terms of shooting, GRIP your pistol hard.  You don't lock the wrist in during shooting by locking the wrist.  You lock the wrist by gripping the pistol hard.  There are a couple of acronyms for this that are inappropriate for this family-friendly forum, but I'll give you the G-Rated version -- G.T. BOOI -- Grip The Bejeezus Out Of It.  Or the R-rated versions -- G.T. SOOI & G.T. FOOI -- I'll let you figure out what those alternate letters stand for.

The second part of the steel grip is accomplished at the elbows (this is a lie; it's at the shoulders, but the easiest way to conceptualize it is with happening at the elbows ;)  O0 ).  Holding the gun out in front of you, hard grip, rotate your elbows out.  This will clamp your hands down on the pistol.  If you don't have a pistol handy, clasp your hands together, fingers inter-laced, and hold them out in front of you, or grab something small to grip like a gun, and present it or your clasped hands like you're aiming at a target, preparing to fire.  Now rotate your elbows out.  Can you feel your hands clamping down on the pistol?  You can get a tremendous amount of additional grip force out of your shoulders by rotating your elbows out.

So improve your grip strength.  Your shoulders are already strong enough to tear your grip apart, so no need to improve there, unless... you know... fitness?  O0   But every bit of additional grip strength you earn will also allow you to clamp down even more with stronger pronation from the shoulder.  Sorry!!  -- I mean by rotating your elbows out harder.  ;)

This is the easiest way to conceptualize it, and conceptualizing counts for a lot. 

Also, a youtube search for "Bob Vogel on Grip" will produce a pretty good video.  It's not quite the same with a CZ as with his Glock, but the fundamental principles are the same.





Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2017, 03:21:41 PM »
That all makes sense.
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Offline SlvrDragon50

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2017, 06:34:07 PM »
You're right in describing the muscles and actions, but the thing is that these muscles are small! So isolation exercises for these muscles in your forearm are typically not extremely effective, and I think you're at higher risk of stressing your tendons by doing isolation exercises. The reason why I suggest farmer walks or hammer curls is because they will use all of your forearm muscles in a relatively isometric contraction without stressing your ECU tendon (or any of the other wrist tendons) which are easily damaged and an absolute pain. I have a very easily inflamed tendon in my left wrist that I have to take NSAIDs for quite often, and I'm pretty sure it was from placing too much of a load on my ECU (either from tennis or benching).

If you really want to improve grip strength, work on carrying weights of large diameter. The smaller the diameter then the easier it is. They sell these grip increasers that wrap onto barbells that will dramatically increase the difficulty of your exercise by placing a greater load on your forearms: https://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Grips-2-5-Extreme-Dumbbell/dp/B00B6I2TOK I am not a big fan of the grip crushers because the load isn't uniform, and it stresses your ulnar tendons too much for comfort. It is very easy to injure yourself if you overtrain with the grip crushers.

Offline rhart

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2017, 10:09:49 AM »
You're right in describing the muscles and actions, but the thing is that these muscles are small! So isolation exercises for these muscles in your forearm are typically not extremely effective, and I think you're at higher risk of stressing your tendons by doing isolation exercises. The reason why I suggest farmer walks or hammer curls is because they will use all of your forearm muscles in a relatively isometric contraction without stressing your ECU tendon (or any of the other wrist tendons) which are easily damaged and an absolute pain. I have a very easily inflamed tendon in my left wrist that I have to take NSAIDs for quite often, and I'm pretty sure it was from placing too much of a load on my ECU (either from tennis or benching).

If you really want to improve grip strength, work on carrying weights of large diameter. The smaller the diameter then the easier it is. They sell these grip increasers that wrap onto barbells that will dramatically increase the difficulty of your exercise by placing a greater load on your forearms: https://www.amazon.com/Alpha-Grips-2-5-Extreme-Dumbbell/dp/B00B6I2TOK I am not a big fan of the grip crushers because the load isn't uniform, and it stresses your ulnar tendons too much for comfort. It is very easy to injure yourself if you overtrain with the grip crushers.

These make sense to me for grip strength training for shooters since a gun's grip is larger than a barbell's diameter.

Offline SerenityNetworks

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Re: New grip workout for shooters
« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2017, 10:13:11 AM »
I'm a huge fan of farmer's carries, but not so much a fan of using barbells, weight plates, dumbbells, or specialty apparatus or barbells designed to let you carry heavy loads.  I prefer the 27 liter blue Reliance water jugs that you can pick up at Walmart or on Amazon for about $12. They will hold about 65 pounds of water, but I suggest only filling them to about 45 to 55 pounds. Once filled start taking treks up and down your block working on the distance that you can walk before you have to set the jugs down. The shape of the jugs forces you to hold them slightly away from your body. The water sloshing works your accessory muscles and your core. And of course it helps your shoulders tremendously along with your grip strength.

I run obstacle course races and recently competed at the OCR World Championships in Canada. I can testify that farmer's carries using water jugs or Jerry Cans is a phenomenal exercise for grip strength, core strength, and shoulder stability.

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« Last Edit: February 18, 2017, 10:16:03 AM by SerenityNetworks »
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