Author Topic: Critical Look at the Shadow 2  (Read 5018 times)

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Online andrew1220

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #30 on: March 09, 2017, 07:59:46 AM »
We have had the Shadow 2 in Canada for some time now. A friend just bought one (second batch ) His gun is great. our LGS owner is very good with CZ's and all he did to it was a little polishing and spring change. It has a very clean 2.5 SA pull now. It is about the same as my 85 b with Kadet kit and my 9mm 85COMBAT. Both guns have CZC race hammers ( can't get CGW  in Canada ) and different springs , that's all and they have 2.5 lb sa after the LGS owner did the action. MY SP01 SHADOW is better othan his shadow 2 but it has had alot of upgrades and has a 2.2 SA and a 5.5 DA. For 300 bucks you get a DESCENT action with race hammer, nice adj combat sight and very cool alum grips. I would get one if I didn't have SP01.

Thanks for the feedback. 2.5# SA is plenty good for me.

I know I'll be getting one after David at CGW works his magic.

Offline BARNY

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #31 on: March 09, 2017, 08:17:45 AM »
I am not sure what the SHADOW 2 was out of the box. Most everybody gets Ray at our LGS to do the action, He loves CZ's and only charges $70 plus parts., but all he changed in shadow 2 was springs. I recently bought a JERICHO 941 ( $649 with case, 3 mags, holster and mag holster ) GOOD DEAL plus the trigger had a very crisp break but heavy ( CZ'S have too much creep and camming in SA for me and I put CZC race hammers in) Ray polished it up and changed a few springs and it now has a 3.5# SA and a 9 # da which is not too bad plus it has a clean break. Ray at LGS  is a a master with  CZ's tho (he has several of his own ) . He is a 2nd gen owner and only about 35 yrs old. LOL DAMN I'M OLD
« Last Edit: March 09, 2017, 08:24:07 AM by BARNY »

Offline schmeky

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #32 on: March 09, 2017, 09:40:41 AM »
Stuart,

Thank you very much for commenting, it is much appreciated. 

Please keep in mind our topic is a "critical" look at the S-2.  Also, as we indicated previously, we stated the observations are confined to the S-2 we have on hand.   Our goal is to identify areas that may respond to improvements, and what parts will work from CZC or CGW.

As most CZ owners know, the action feel and function can vary from sample to sample of the same model.


Online andrew1220

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #33 on: March 09, 2017, 09:42:50 AM »
Our goal is to identify areas that may respond to improvements, and what parts will work from CZC or CGW.

Looking forward to it.

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #34 on: March 09, 2017, 09:49:57 AM »
As most CZ owners know, the action feel and function can vary from sample to sample of the same model.

Boy oh boy is that something I've learned!
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Online andrew1220

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #35 on: March 09, 2017, 10:05:48 AM »
As most CZ owners know, the action feel and function can vary from sample to sample of the same model.

Boy oh boy is that something I've learned!

Yep. I know my polished 75B had a noticeably heavier trigger pull than my friend's 75B. Would not be surprised if there will be a big variation in the S-2's.

Offline Chilidip

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2017, 10:07:06 AM »
As far as the trigger my initial impressions were the trigger was better on the 2's, maybe a touch heavier but crisper with the biggest improvement being the take up in SA which is significantly reduced compared to my original stock Shadow and about the same as those who switch the disco in their Shadow.

I just went and did 10 pull averages on both of my Shadow 2's for comparison sakes with a Lyman digital gauge,  Both guns are untouched ( no polishing, deburring etc) just simply change out the Hammer and recoil springs.

My Urban Grey Shadow 2 has about 2,000 rounds through it and with the CGW 11.5 hammer spring the averages were DA 6lbs 11.5 oz, SA 2lbs 12 oz.  The Black/Blue Shadow 2 has less than 1,000 rounds through it and with the CGW 11.5 spring the averages were DA 6lbs 14 oz, SA 2lbs 14.5 oz.

One other comment earlier in the thread a poster was making the point of taking the OP's comments as the slide serrations were worse.  Having shot a handful of matches now with the 2's I'd disagree.  The tapered slide profile at first seemed a bit awkward after using the original Shadow but those serrations are so sharp my hands are getting chewed up after a long practice session, I do however rack from the front serrations not the rear as the OP mentioned.

Online andrew1220

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #37 on: March 09, 2017, 10:11:12 AM »
As far as the trigger my initial impressions were the trigger was better on the 2's, maybe a touch heavier but crisper with the biggest improvement being the take up in SA which is significantly reduced compared to my original stock Shadow and about the same as those who switch the disco in their Shadow.

I just went and did 10 pull averages on both of my Shadow 2's for comparison sakes with a Lyman digital gauge,  Both guns are untouched ( no polishing, deburring etc) just simply change out the Hammer and recoil springs.

My Urban Grey Shadow 2 has about 2,000 rounds through it and with the CGW 11.5 hammer spring the averages were DA 6lbs 11.5 oz, SA 2lbs 12 oz.  The Black/Blue Shadow 2 has less than 1,000 rounds through it and with the CGW 11.5 spring the averages were DA 6lbs 14 oz, SA 2lbs 14.5 oz.

One other comment earlier in the thread a poster was making the point of taking the OP's comments as the slide serrations were worse.  Having shot a handful of matches now with the 2's I'd disagree.  The tapered slide profile at first seemed a bit awkward after using the original Shadow but those serrations are so sharp my hands are getting chewed up after a long practice session, I do however rack from the front serrations not the rear as the OP mentioned.

Thanks for the feedback! I'd assume you're not in the US?

Sounds like just a simple spring change can do wonders for the S-2. I can't imagine what polishing and swapping parts for CGW parts, would do to the action. Would be VERY nice I'd imagine.

Offline Chilidip

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #38 on: March 09, 2017, 10:47:49 AM »

Thanks for the feedback! I'd assume you're not in the US?

Canada

Offline Grelber

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #39 on: March 11, 2017, 11:03:48 AM »
As most CZ owners know, the action feel and function can vary from sample to sample of the same model.

Boy oh boy is that something I've learned!

Yep. I know my polished 75B had a noticeably heavier trigger pull than my friend's 75B. Would not be surprised if there will be a big variation in the S-2's.

It is what it is. For $600 MSRP (75B) I had one level of expectations and for $1300 - 1400 MSRP (S2) another.

Offline Shadow2

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2017, 10:37:06 PM »
My 2 cents the frames are all made the same way so the premium price seems to be, the hammer which should have been a CZC hammer to begin with. The grips and the rear sight.

everything else being production drop in parts, there's is no mention of special fitting, Then you have a factory shorter reset which isn't as short as it could be.

I guess you cant expect CZ to sell a new tuned gun for less then the price of a TSO. Should a CZ S2 with $300 of tuning run better then CZC shadow in the same price range.
Theoretically It should because if it doesn't then your paying a premium for cosmetic changes, a heavier gun and parts that are being removed for CZC parts. The stock $300 performance benifits over the original just went into the garbage the minute czc swapped the parts. Diminished returns.

Which leaves the new look, the grips, rear site, and coatings for the premium price.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2017, 10:42:57 PM by Shadow2 »

Offline schmeky

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2017, 12:45:35 PM »
As promised, here is a list of some dimensions of the internal parts, what is common across the spectrum and will cross reference:

S-2 hammer spring wire OD = .042" which equates to a 14 - 14.5 lb. hammer spring
S-2 recoil spring wire OD = .042" which equates to 13#'s
Firing pin spring wire OD - .029" which equates to OEM
Firing pin length = .2.468" which equates to OEM
S-2 Disco down leg center thickness dimension is .125"

This is a comparison of hammer hook heights, from the sear bed to the top of the hammer hooks:

S-2 = .028"
CZC = .025"
CGW = .016"

Everything in the frame is standard CZ Shadow as follows:
Grips
Sear, sear spring, sear pin & cage
Trigger, trigger pin & trigger return spring
Hammer, pivot pin, retaining peg, disco & strut
Safety detent & spring

What's different:
Manual safety is like the Tactical Sport & SP-01 Compact
Manual safety is unique to the S-2 and is the same as the SP-01 Compact

We'll get more info to the forum in the next few days.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 08:59:24 PM by schmeky »

Offline SlvrDragon50

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2017, 02:33:59 PM »
As promised, here is a list of some dimensions of the internal parts, what is common across the spectrum and will cross reference:

S-2 hammer spring wire OD = .042" which equates to a 14 - 14.5 lb. hammer spring
S-2 recoil spring wire OD = .042" which equates to 13#'s
Firing pin spring wire OD - .029" which equates to OEM
Firing pin length = .2.468" which equates to OEM
S-2 Disco down leg center thickness dimension is .125"

This is a comparison of hammer hook heights, from the sear bed to the top of the hammer hooks:

S-2 = .028"
CZC = .025"
CGW = .016"

Everything in the frame is standard CZ Shadow as follows:
Grips
Sear, sear spring, sear pin & cage
Trigger, trigger pin & trigger return spring
Hammer, pivot pin, retaining peg, disco & strut
Safety detent & spring

What's different:
Manual safety is like the Tactical Sport & SP-01 Compact
Manual safety is unique to the S-2 and is the same as the SP-01 Compact

We'll get more info to the forum in the next few days.

I had no clue the CGW hammer had a lower height than the CZC hammer, that makes so much sense now. Glad the CGW hammer is production legal now.

Regarding the hammer spring + firing pin, have you tried to swap in other spring weights yet? It seems like if it is 100% reliable with a 14 lb hammer spring with the shorter OEM firing pin+spring then it should be able to use a lighter hammer spring weight with the extended firing pin than a Shadow 1?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2017, 08:59:50 PM by schmeky »

Offline copemech

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2017, 11:39:15 PM »
And a Shadow is supposed to have an improved Hammer? Using Davids method of measure, I wonder what a stock SP-01  hammer measures? All I know is that I was not impressed with the stock hammer on my Shadow 1.

I am not quite sure just how he takes his measure, as I do not have a jig or anything, I use a feeler gauge as a guide, yet the angle it is used is critical, and not the same as actual sear.

Offline Wombat756

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Re: Critical Look at the Shadow 2
« Reply #44 on: March 16, 2017, 01:53:52 AM »
Bit of a question that runs off on a bit of a tangent (apologies iff too far off) does anyone know if a shadow 2 will be compatible with a kadet conversion kit?

With my countries restrictions, it would be advantageous if it is, but ill still probably get one if it isnt.

Thanks for your time :)