Author Topic: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX  (Read 1659 times)

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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2017, 03:10:40 PM »
This stays very interesting! I know you have only been shooting bullseye for a while, but on your practice could you sneak in some transitions between two targets to see how it registers everything?
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Online Joe L

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #16 on: March 18, 2017, 05:59:23 PM »
SP--I'll see what I can do for the transition drills.  I still love doing them, and will be in an outdoor pistol bay, so I'll see about it. 

If I do this documentary video correctly, I'll need a target camera, a shooter camera, and an iPhone screen camera, plus a lav mic on my hat bill and an audio recorder.  Including the red dot and video monitors, that is at least 8 electronic devices to set up and check for each shot series.  And I have to not think about them while trying to pull the trigger without moving the gun, LOL.

I just hope it isn't windy. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C

Online Joe L

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #17 on: March 19, 2017, 06:07:21 PM »
Ok, here is the live fire test video, using the P-09. 



This went very well, both from a new device standpoint and a video shoot standpoint.  I can't believe I got this many battery operated devices working at the same time long enough to finish shooting the video. 

At the end is a correlation of the target scores versus the MantisX app scores.  The correlation between poor shots and low scores was good, as expected.  But the correlation between really good hits like 10 ring or x ring, was also good.  This was a short test under less than ideal conditions, but I am very happy with the correlation, even for the very limited number of data points I collected. 

I learned a few things in live fire regarding use of the device.  One, you must tell the app that you are going to be shooting live fire instead of dry fire.  Second, the battery in the MantisX should be fully charged before you head to the range.  No dry fire the night before without charging.  Next, and this is a biggie, you should stop the datalogger before dropping the magazine, putting in a fresh one, and closing the slide.  Closing the slide is interpreted as a hammer drop by the device, and the datalogger will record the gun motion due to slide movement instead of trigger movement.  You have to load and chamber a round, THEN start the datalogger, if you want 10 datalogs for 10 shots.  Ideally, one would have an assistant or an instructor holding the iPhone and watching the results, safely behind the line and to the left of the shooter.  15 feet is no problem, at least I don't think it is, based on very limited testing at the house during dry fire. 

Keep in mind also that the device doesn't know where you are aiming, so correlation of the bullseye target scores and MantisX scores is affected by wind and shooter's ability to line up the sight with the center of the target.  I had a few times when I knew the hit was going to be a little high this morning, even with a perfect trigger pull.  If you aim high right but have a perfect trigger pull, you could have an 8 ring hit with a 97 MantisX score. 

I'm thinking dry fire practice is where the MantisX will be most useful for an experienced shooter.  Improving steadiness and developing a consistent (95+) trigger pull will most definitely result in higher live fire practice scores.  The device should be helpful in speeding up training of new shooters, as they can get some feedback on trigger pull during dry fire well before trying live fire.  I can't wait to try the device with a new shooter, both in the classroom and at the range.  I guarantee you that jerking the trigger or pushing right or left will show up on the device scores!!

The iPhone app doesn't appear to be buggy at all.  The device itself has worked perfectly.  The user must understand that the device will interpret a bump or a slide closure as a hammer drop and the user must charge the unit up before heading to the range or starting an extended dry fire training session. 

I am probably just going to tape it to the dust cover of my 97 for dry fire practice.  That is this week's chore.  There won't be any more three camera videos of the little device.  That would be pushing my luck.  Still can't believe I got it this morning in one take. 

Let me know if you have any questions.  Just in case anyone asks, I bought this device with my own money, it was not sent to me for testing or anything like that.  I love this stuff.  That is my ownly motivation. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C

Offline Earl Keese

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #18 on: March 19, 2017, 07:21:47 PM »
Thanks Joe, great test/review.

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #19 on: March 19, 2017, 08:28:45 PM »
Wow if someone didn't know better they'd think you were a millennial with those mad device skills!

Thanks for taking the time to document your experience with the device! Takes lots of work. I don't think I'm going to buy one right now but I'll definitely keep it in mind.
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Online Joe L

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #20 on: March 19, 2017, 09:23:25 PM »
SP--I didn't try any transitions today, but might get to later this week.  All I could do to shoot bullseye this morning.  Sorry 'bout that.
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #21 on: March 19, 2017, 09:31:53 PM »
SP--I didn't try any transitions today, but might get to later this week.  All I could do to shoot bullseye this morning.  Sorry 'bout that.
Joe

No worries. I'll be stoked if you get to it, but there's no rush need on my end.
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Online Joe L

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #22 on: March 24, 2017, 02:05:58 PM »
MantisX just updated their iPhone app, adding a bullseye option.  This has longer traces and a smaller viewing circle by default.  Here is a short video.  Not sure I am going to find this more useful than the original setting or not.  Some of the bullseye people asked for it. 



Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C

Offline K3JB

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2017, 05:06:13 PM »
Interesting Joe. I have shot a friends PO-9 and would consider purchasing one, but I do like striker fired pistols and waiting for the P-10c. If it feels like the PO-9 CZ will have a winner. I have been watching the youtube videos on this shooting device,
it is very cool. I look forward to your continued reports.
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Online Joe L

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2017, 08:56:49 PM »
I spent a little more time this week with the MantisX and the new Bullseye option. 

Here is a new video, but the results are similar to the earlier ones.  Basically what I have asked Mantis to do in the iPhone app is to let the user select the trace duration and the target zoom.  What I want is the zoom from the bullseye option with the duration of the standard trace.  With the standard trace, the view is too far out and the trace pattern is too small.  With the bullseye option selected, the target zoom is just right, but the display covers too long of a time span.  I can't tell anything about what is going on because too much motion is reported.  Mantis is working on it. 



I will have a new shooter try the MantisX on Monday.  My niece.  Completely green, uh, inexperienced.  But a good student.  Rain expected here on Sunday morning, so no range trip planned.  I need some Kadet time. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C

Offline LMS

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #25 on: April 08, 2017, 09:02:03 PM »
I just bought one this week.  Pretty cool little device (but I am a gadget head).   It had some trouble picking up my dry firing, but I did some live firing today and what it showed me made sense, including how to fix the stuff I was doing wrong.   Still learning and I may post more info as I get more range and dry fire time with it.

Offline milq

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #26 on: April 09, 2017, 01:46:56 AM »
I've had one for a few months. It has been beneficial for dry fire practice (keeps me honest) and I occasionally get a student in CCW classes that just don't listen or believe what we are telling them. This gives them visual results.
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Online Joe L

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #27 on: April 09, 2017, 06:25:28 AM »
I've had one for a few months. It has been beneficial for dry fire practice (keeps me honest) and I occasionally get a student in CCW classes that just don't listen or believe what we are telling them. This gives them visual results.

I think this is an excellent device for a new shooter especially, just for this reason.  Plus a lot of new shooters are young and like the iPhone feedback better than the old guy (in my case)  feedback!! 

I've been unable to go to the range for the last couple of weeks due to family commitments and back problems, but should be ready to hit it again in another week. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #28 on: July 12, 2017, 03:45:11 PM »
Is it still working as well as at first?

Still a recommended buy?

Been thinking about getting one but not sure if there's been any issues crop up in the last few months.

Thanks.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Online Joe L

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Re: New pistol shooter training aid I am now using: MantisX
« Reply #29 on: July 12, 2017, 04:21:09 PM »
M1A4ME--Yes, it is still very helpful.  I used it a few weeks ago during an introductory class for two new shooters.  One averaged high 80s, one averaged mid 90s, which was excellent.  She did better on average than I did, and she had no trouble at all out to 50 yards with the .22 last Friday, shooting two handed, standing. 

There seems to be good correlation with high target scores and high MantisX scores.  I don't think it will differentiate very well between two experienced shooters, however.  It seemed to be very useful in dry fire for folks that needed feedback on their trigger finger pull where they had a flinch or otherwise were just jerking the gun around while pulling the trigger.  That is where the device will have the most benefit. 

I need to use it some more myself.  Keep in mind that it cannot detect or score bad aiming, only movement of the gun as the trigger is being pulled.  For example, my new shooter that had good results in dry fire, still had to steady the gun properly to get good scores on live fire targets.  But she sure didn't move the gun while pulling the trigger, and that is the most common problem I see. 

Based on the MantisX dry fire scores, I knew I had an exceptional shooter and a more typical shooter (like I was when I started) to work with at the range.  That is what showed in the life fire target results as well.  I'm taking them back on Thursday, so I'll see in live fire how they do with the MantisX if we have time to set everything up and try it. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C