Author Topic: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?  (Read 576 times)

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Offline Clint007

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2017, 11:25:33 PM »
I have occasionally lubed the powder funnel itself. Sometimes with one shot and sometimes with that stuff that comes in a jar of small ceramic balls. Don't remember the name.

Yep, Wobbly had brought that up awhile back...from another thread....using Imperial size die wax, just a hint on the funnel using a finger.... I tried that it works...but needs re-application frequently.  Guess any lube will do, One-Shot would be fine, too.   I will do this if necessary, as it did NOT cause primer failures...

C
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Offline amada8

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #16 on: March 16, 2017, 02:59:43 AM »
Have you tried polishing the powder drop funnel?  Chuck it up in a drill press, use 600 grit for a while, then 1200, then a Scotchbrite light pad.  It should shine like a new penny and you won't need the lubricant.  Maybe you can't do this with a 1050.  I did the funnel on my 650XL and have not had any more cases bind.

YMMV
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Offline Clint007

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #17 on: March 16, 2017, 06:28:07 PM »
Have you tried polishing the powder drop funnel?  Chuck it up in a drill press, use 600 grit for a while, then 1200, then a Scotchbrite light pad.  It should shine like a new penny and you won't need the lubricant.  Maybe you can't do this with a 1050.  I did the funnel on my 650XL and have not had any more cases bind.

YMMV

Might try that. Give me an excuse to buy a drill press, finally!

C
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Offline Clint007

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #18 on: March 17, 2017, 01:09:30 AM »
Sooo...IDescribe's comments above about the primer seating being the culprit here prompted me to go back to the current loaded rounds and the brass that I currently have sprayed and ready to load.  First, there is no detectable dried One Shot visible in the case bottom, and the flash holes look 100% clean.

Second, turns out, there are more than a few loaded rounds where the primer IS INDEED slightly elevated above the case bottom. And it's SO SLIGHT that visually and by feel you cannot see it, but when I put a parallel bar across the case base, it rocks ever so slightly on the primer.  Other rounds do not do this.

I then took my primer pocket gauge to a bunch of prepped brass. I found that, despite all these going through the swage station on the 1050, there are a fair number where the primer pocket gauge refuses to sit flush. It's not a crimp, it's further into the pocket where it stops.  These have about 1/2 to 1/3 of the gauge sticking out. I ran these same cases through the swage station long ago, but then I did it now AGAIN, and the result was the same: the primer pocket gauge will not seat into the pocket.  Even more annoying, these same brass cases WILL ACCEPT accept priming fine on the 1050, and look normal except for above. This finding makes me no doubt the value of this GO/NO GO primer pocket gauge.....it's a Ballistic Tools Swage Gauge in 9mm.

Most the brass causing this problem (both loaded rounds and prepped brass that failed the gauge then I primed to check it) is clearly some more range pickups....S&B with a 16 stamp on them. But a few are WIN and a few are misc headstamps. None have the military cross-in-circle...

Yes, the swager is set nice and properly deep, using a half-cut case to confirm the swaging tip (anvil?) projects all the way that it can into the pocket.  The bass of the swage rod wage tip abuts the base of the case, and when I set it any deeper it's obviously distorting the base of the case and wicked hard to turn any more. So based on that, it's set deep enough. I find it hard to believe that my swaging rod is wore out....I have almost no military brass I process, its there more for backup safety if one sneaks in.  In reality its hard to imagine this swaging tip getting worn down by the relatively rare crimped primers I put through this press. I have >100k rounds on this press of 9mm....and this problem just popped up in the past couple month...

But should the tip of the swage rod fill the pocket? If it is supposed to, then my swage rod tip is wore out, because it doesn't go all the way up into the very apex of the pocket...even when the base of the swaging tip is abutting the case bottom.

Thanks again to IDescribe for his insight...

My next step is to load only brass that passes the primer pocket gauge test easily, and see if any manifest this problem. Then load a few that are gauge problems and see if I can re-create the problem consistently.

C


« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 01:11:27 AM by Clint007 »
Huh?

Offline IDescribe

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #19 on: March 17, 2017, 01:39:27 AM »
I believed it was NOT a primer seating problem.  If it turns out to be primer seating, ReloaderFred gets credit for that.  ;)


I suggested, and STILL suggest, that you make cartridges as you were, only you should use ONE SHOT after you clean, but before you deprime, and you should let dry for a day.  IF you do that, and you don't have dead primers, you will know it was the One Shot that got the primers.  If it does NOT cure the primer issue, then you can move onto addressing primer seating problems and you will be sure that seating was the real problem if you can fix it that way.

My primary suggestion is that you don't do multiple fixes at once so that you can identify what the real fix is. 

Be careful with "quality control" no-go gauging of any type.  The very nature of a go/no-go gauge can create the illusion of it working well by NOT working well.  What I mean is -- if no-go gauge X fails 1 out of 10, and no-go gauge Y fails only 1 out of 1000, it LOOKS like no-go gauge X is doing a better job.  However, it's possible, if not outright more likely, that the deviations that cause the no-go failure don't actually affect real world function.  So while it might look like no-go gauge X is doing a better job, if it turns out that the failed cases function fine, then no-go gauge Y was actually doing the better job.  All no-go X was doing was identifying problems where they didn't exist.  In your case, my assumption is that all of us have the exact same primer pocket variations that your no-go primer pocket gauge is identifying -- why wouldn't we? -- but we aren't having your problems with primer detonation, which suggests that those primer pocket variations you're identifying with that no-go gauge are not your problem.

I'm also not sure about swaging primer pockets to begin with.   Just because the 1050 has it doesn't mean you should use it.  ;)
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 07:48:31 AM by IDescribe »

Offline Clint007

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2017, 11:20:54 AM »
I believed it was NOT a primer seating problem.  If it turns out to be primer seating, ReloaderFred gets credit for that.  ;)


I suggested, and STILL suggest, that you make cartridges as you were, only you should use ONE SHOT after you clean, but before you deprime, and you should let dry for a day.  IF you do that, and you don't have dead primers, you will know it was the One Shot that got the primers.  If it does NOT cure the primer issue, then you can move onto addressing primer seating problems and you will be sure that seating was the real problem if you can fix it that way.

My primary suggestion is that you don't do multiple fixes at once so that you can identify what the real fix is. 

Be careful with "quality control" no-go gauging of any type.  The very nature of a go/no-go gauge can create the illusion of it working well by NOT working well.  What I mean is -- if no-go gauge X fails 1 out of 10, and no-go gauge Y fails only 1 out of 1000, it LOOKS like no-go gauge X is doing a better job.  However, it's possible, if not outright more likely, that the deviations that cause the no-go failure don't actually affect real world function.  So while it might look like no-go gauge X is doing a better job, if it turns out that the failed cases function fine, then no-go gauge Y was actually doing the better job.  All no-go X was doing was identifying problems where they didn't exist.  In your case, my assumption is that all of us have the exact same primer pocket variations that your no-go primer pocket gauge is identifying -- why wouldn't we? -- but we aren't having your problems with primer detonation, which suggests that those primer pocket variations you're identifying with that no-go gauge are not your problem.

I'm also not sure about swaging primer pockets to begin with.   Just because the 1050 has it doesn't mean you should use it.  ;)

Yes, sorry, ReloaderFred gets credit for the high primer etiology if that pans out!

Thank you for your advice. I will actually test the OneShot influence, by not using any lube after processing and cleaning. I can handle the powder funnel sticking a bit for a few hundred rounds.

Thank for the the info on the primer pocket. I used that primer pocket gauge initially mostly to validate the set up on the 1050 for swaging mil brass (crimped primer pockets).

I did read on a few places that some people, at least, judge S&B pockets to be 'tight'. Probably is, on the internet, you'll find validation for pretty much any suspicion if you look enough and believe everything you read. So I remain skeptical. From your discussion, I will happily accept that fact that just because the primer pocket gauge fails to seat in those S&B cases does not mean that is connected to my problem. What I WILL do tho is fire what rounds I have left and keep every failure to fire to identify if the headstamps are clustering around a specific brand...like the S&B.

On this subject....when the trigger and hammer go 'click' and no bang, how likely is a delayed detonation (hang fire) and how long should I wait with muzzle downrange before ejecting that round?   Ever see a hang fire on a 9mm round more than a split second late?  I see some guys in matches immediately go through their tap-rack dance, but wondered really how safe that was....if the problem was a failure to detonate the primer...

C
Huh?

Online Wobbly

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2017, 11:35:01 AM »
I think Roberta Flack should release a remake of her hit "Killing Me Softly" because I hear her singing in the background to this thread "Killing My Primers"...

 ::)
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Offline ReloaderFred

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2017, 01:14:45 PM »
The common advice with a misfire is to wait 10 to 20 seconds, with the muzzle pointed downrange, before ejecting the loaded round.  In reality, about the longest I've seen a hangfire go off is about 1 second, and that was only once on a student I was coaching in a class.  They do happen, but it's not that common.

I still believe the problem is with the primer seating.  That's why I prefer to seat primers off my progressive presses, using a Ram Prime on my Rockchucker.  I can precisely seat primers to -.004" below flush with that method.  Sure, it takes longer to load that way, but I don't have primer problems on the range, where it counts.

The S&B primer pockets are snug, and have a sharp corner at the mouth of the pocket, which exacerbates seating, especially on progressive presses.  Other than that, I find S&B brass to be good quality, but you have to watch for steel cases that are copper washed that look identical to brass cases.  I just run a magnet over the brass to sort them out when I suspect there are some in the mix.  I've got three 5 gallon buckets of range brass to sort out in the shop when I get over this bronchitis thing that's going around, and I'll run the magnet over that brass.

Hope this helps.

Fred
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Offline 1SOW

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2017, 03:51:50 PM »
What Fred said about some head stamps having eccentricities is why I sort by headstamp.  My relatively low round count allows me to only use headstamps that run through my press with consistently reliable results.

I don't use S&B due to problems shooter friends have had  "accidentally" using the copper plated steel version.

Offline Clint007

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #24 on: March 18, 2017, 01:24:33 AM »
Thank you, guys.  I too use a magnet to cull out those d**m steel cases disguised as brass.
I used the primer pocket gauge and found another dozen tight S&B brass, and loaded those up tonight, along with the others, labelled appropriately, so I can test my theory.

And no thanks to Wobbly...now I can't get that tune out of my head...

C
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Offline Bret

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2017, 08:54:34 AM »
The S&B primer pockets are snug, and have a sharp corner at the mouth of the pocket, which exacerbates seating, especially on progressive presses.
Yes, the primer diameter is ever so smaller that most other cases.  I use Remington primers in S&B cases because they too are ever so smaller in diameter.  Try loading S&B cases with Remington versus other primers using a hand priming tool and you'll be able to feel the difference.

Offline Bret

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #26 on: March 18, 2017, 08:57:11 AM »
What Fred said about some head stamps having eccentricities is why I sort by headstamp. 
I'll have to admit that I sort by headstamp and even lot primarily because I'm anal retentive when it comes to reloading and just want everything to match, but the upside of the upside of this is that there are fewer variables that enter in to the process.  I'm feeling validated. O0

Online Wobbly

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2017, 02:26:21 PM »
I'm feeling validated. O0


But are you hearing Roberta ?
In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Immature reloaders ask: What's wrong with this gun?
Mature reloaders ask: What did I do wrong ?

Offline Bret

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2017, 05:17:50 PM »
Fortunately no.

Offline painter

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Re: Hornady One Shot killing my primers...maybe?
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2017, 08:01:52 PM »
I'm feeling validated. O0


But are you hearing Roberta ?
I am.

I hate you. :-*  ;D
I had the right to remain silent...

but not the ability.