Author Topic: Drilling for the full length guide rod  (Read 758 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline copemech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1376
Drilling for the full length guide rod
« on: April 20, 2017, 10:59:50 PM »
So, after getting a bit spoiled with the new Shadow and its lighter #14 or so recoil spring, I decided to try the #11 that many seem to run on their lighter loads, and since I am ordering, lets just get 2 and put one in my stainless 75!

Well, the "range queen" just don't seem to like that round wire spring with its short guide rod, and things feel kinda funky when you work the slide and feel some coils hitting stuff in there. Man, I think I need the FLGR rod in there to keep things straight, no less make it easier to put back together.

Question is, how do I find this hole center where it needs to be?

"The Queen" is not gonna like it if I punch her hole off center! :o

Offline Tok36

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3481
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #1 on: April 20, 2017, 11:50:58 PM »
Good question. I am interested to hear how it is done correctly. I would ship my slide out for that particular job.
Will work for CZ pics! (including but not limited to all CZ clones)

Offline schmeky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2554
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #2 on: April 21, 2017, 09:39:36 AM »
Best to work off bore center.  The distance from bore center to the center of the guide rod is approximately 15 mm.

Perfect cutter is a 5 mm carbide end mill.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2017, 09:41:14 AM by schmeky »

Offline 1SOW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 13946
  • GO GREEN - Recycle 9MM
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #3 on: April 21, 2017, 01:27:15 PM »

Quote
Well, the "range queen" just don't seem to like that round wire spring with its short guide rod, and things feel kinda funky when you work the slide and feel some coils hitting stuff in there. Man, I think I need the FLGR rod in there to keep things straight, no less make it easier to put back together.

My 75B did the same.  Have you done this?:
When you put the pistol to bed,  rotate the short guide rod and spring and leave the slide locked back with the spring as straight as possible.  After a few times the spring will take a set.
  The lighter springs are longer.  CZC told me to cut off one coil if it won't cycle properly.
The first method will work most of the time.  Once I had to cut a coil.  Both ways work fine.

Offline G33

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 12
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #4 on: April 21, 2017, 02:35:26 PM »
I use the same springs for my 85 as I do with my Shadow. IMHO before reaching for the drill make sure that you've seated the short guide rod properly and it's not bending downwards into the frame when you reassemble the FA.

Sent from my SpaceCraft using MindControl!


Offline copemech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1376
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #5 on: April 21, 2017, 08:59:42 PM »
Best to work off bore center.  The distance from bore center to the center of the guide rod is approximately 15 mm.

Perfect cutter is a 5 mm carbide end mill.

I am a mechanic, not a machinist! So turn left, go south 15mm and pray!

End mill? I have a #9 drill bit and a Makita 18V, will that work? O0

Where is SP01SHADOW ?

Offline M1A4ME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
  • I've shot the rest, I now own the best - CZ
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2017, 06:49:23 AM »
Is it a real good drill bit?

How straight can you hold the bit and the drill?

I haven't even thought about drilling a slide for a longer spring guide.  I did "open up" my P07 DUTY slide for a captured recoil spring/guide rod.  That steel is really, really hard.  My drill bits wouldn't touch it.  Even those "gold" looking ones that are supposed to be harder than a standard high speed bit.  I ended up very carefully/slowly opening up with a dremel and some small stones and wore out a stone tip just opening that hole up enough to clear the larger diameter captured spring guide rod used in the 2nd gen P07s.  I got so tired of fighting that spring in/out of the pistol every time I cleaned it, had to do something. 

If you do your 75 type slide, get pictures and post them and the details of the work, I might get real curious about it myself.  I heard about a used SP01 the other day.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline schmeky

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2554
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2017, 10:08:42 AM »
Quote
I am a mechanic, not a machinist! So turn left, go south 15mm and pray!

End mill? I have a #9 drill bit and a Makita 18V, will that work?

Of course it will work for you . . . but you forgot a couple things:

1)  use dim or poor lighting
2)  keep your eyes closed so no chips will fly in your face
3)  a couple shots of jagermeister, crown, etc. to steady the hand

Let us know how it turns out  O0

Disclaimer:  the above is for forum entertainment purposes only.

Offline John A.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1111
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2017, 11:27:53 AM »
SPO1 drilled my canik slide.

He did a great job on it and looks factory.  Perhaps you could drop him a PM.  He may be able to tell you where to take all the guesswork out of it.

I'm thinking of drilling the hole a little bigger and installing one of CGW's stainless steel rod.

Or just make my own and copy the plastic shadow rod  ::) 
Give them an inch and eventually they'll become a ruler.

Offline paskeCZ

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2017, 03:12:37 PM »
the slide-metal is soft, easy to handle with drill or dremel.



CZ Aficionado

  • Guest
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2017, 11:24:20 PM »
I've done a few of these conversions, the best way I have found is to take the recoil spring with a lite coat of oil on the end and place it on the outside of the slide where i'm drilling the hole to get a circle then mark the center of the circle with a sharpie then place the slide in a vise, line up the bit to the mark and test the alignment by lightly pressing the bit to the slide and see if it's good.....honestly your eyes are the best fine tune adjustment, it's a small area to work with, your eye will see if it's centered....just take your time.  :)
« Last Edit: April 22, 2017, 11:28:42 PM by CZ Aficionado »

Offline SPO1SHADOW

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1037
  • Armed and Deplorable
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2017, 09:47:23 AM »
If you look on the inside of the spring pocket down inside the slide you can see center because of how it is machined. I made up a jig that fits the spring pocket out of Delrin and use a long drill bit drilling from the back side of the slide. The jig will center your pilot hole and then you can drill the rest from the front of the slide. The hole will be slightly larger than it needs to be to clear the barrel lug when you try to insert the FLGR. It works very well with the lower weight recoil springs. The polymer guide rod takes a smaller hole because it is flexible and easier to get in past the lower lug on the barrel. Not saying this is the best way but for someone without a machine shop or lots of tools this works out to be very easy with a minimum of expense and a minimum of error. I started out using an inexpensive drill bit coupler instead of the higher priced long drill bit which is kind of pricey if you are only going to do one gun.











« Last Edit: April 23, 2017, 10:02:55 AM by SPO1SHADOW »

Offline M1A4ME

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2204
  • I've shot the rest, I now own the best - CZ
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2017, 11:17:49 AM »
If you look on the inside of the spring pocket down inside the slide you can see center because of how it is machined. I made up a jig that fits the spring pocket out of Delrin and use a long drill bit drilling from the back side of the slide. The jig will center your pilot hole and then you can drill the rest from the front of the slide. The hole will be slightly larger than it needs to be to clear the barrel lug when you try to insert the FLGR. It works very well with the lower weight recoil springs. The polymer guide rod takes a smaller hole because it is flexible and easier to get in past the lower lug on the barrel. Not saying this is the best way but for someone without a machine shop or lots of tools this works out to be very easy with a minimum of expense and a minimum of error. I started out using an inexpensive drill bit coupler instead of the higher priced long drill bit which is kind of pricey if you are only going to do one gun.













Now that's thinking it through first.  Some people have that knack.  Nice pictures/description.  Nice looking results, too.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline copemech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1376
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2017, 11:24:40 PM »
Thanks for the info all. I am still studying this situation as I only get one shot at this hole and it needs to be within a few thou!

So I did a bit of experimentation over the weekend and not unlike Sp01's example I thought I may be able to center and drill from the back side. I found transfer punch I had, a cheap one from Harbor Freight, but it fit the spring recess nicely to hopefully ding in a dimple for a drill start. Well, I hit it pretty good a couple of times and it did not phase that stainless slide. It must be pretty hard sturff!!! Some stainless alloys can be that way and do require a carbide tool at proper speed. Very difficult to work with.

Perhaps Schmeck Head can elaborate on that experience.  :-\

Tonite I did find a drill guide from a screw extractor set I had that should go in the spring recess hole nicely. It is made for a 3/16 drill which should be also fine for a long #12 drill I have.  I may throw it in there just to see if it will cut the stainless.

As the recess was milled out, there also seems to be a raised tit at the bottom! This may need to be ground out with a dremel before I can even start a regular HS drill.

Long story made short, if I cannot make some progress here I may just know my limits and hold off till I can have it done by proper equipment rather than pissing off "the Queen" which cost a LOT to Bling! O0

Offline Earl Keese

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1475
Re: Drilling for the full length guide rod
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2017, 06:39:21 AM »
I used the plastic tubing as suggested by SP01SHADOW. Its available at any big box hardware store. Worked perfectly on two of my guns. The second one took all of 15 minutes.