Author Topic: Feeling a little frustrated...  (Read 1355 times)

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Offline Jkid01

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Feeling a little frustrated...
« on: April 30, 2017, 10:45:45 AM »
I'm posting this between strings. I got out my new 455 American suppressor ready today, decided it was time to put lead to paper. Got out my sand bags and placed a target at 20 to check my bore sigh. It was spot on. I thought right then it was going to be a good day.  I proceeded to place a target at 50 and another at 100 yards.
   Next I started at the 50 yard target. I've probably shot close to 100 rounds at this point and I cannot get my rifle to shoot less than a 1" to 1 1/2" group at 50. I've shot four different types of ammo at this point.
   I'm not expecting a one hole shooter or I would have purchased the precision trainer. I was however expecting the rifle to do better than it is. I checked the barrel to see if it was floated and I get a little drag on the dollar bill in two spots. I know it could use some sanding and needs to be bedded. I realize this isn't the best stock. Like I said I'm not expecting a bench rest gun. My goal here was to get a suppressor host that was as close a bench rest gun as possible but still be light enough to carry through the woods and squirrel hunt.
   I have no problem with putting a little money in this stock or buying a new one as long as I don't gain a lot of weight and I'm not chasing the rimfire rabbit down the hole with a gun that won't ever tighten up. This is my first cz so I don't really know what to expect. What to do...
"I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."
– General Douglas MacArthur

Offline Igrlik

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2017, 03:00:25 PM »
...I've shot four different types of ammo at this point. ...
Which???

... What to do...
Try another ammo  8)
« Last Edit: April 30, 2017, 03:05:36 PM by Igrlik »

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2017, 04:16:40 PM »
Name the ammo can't give some thought to it until that is known. Front rest?sandbag?bi pod? need more info. What have you been shooting the past to compare to? And the list becomes endless. Did I mention more info so we aren't guessing.

R

Offline Jkid01

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2017, 08:58:08 PM »
I shot federal auto match,cci mini mag hp,cci subsonic hp, cci velocitior, Remington golden bullitt rn, browning small game-target, eley sub hp. Oh yea I even tried stingers just for giggles. Really couldn't get it to tighten up much at all. I probably shot about 500 rounds today. I spaced them out so I wouldn't heat the barrel too much as I want this gun to shoot a accurate cold bore shot. I was shooting off of sand bags from and rear. I had my bipod on but wasn't using it so I took it off. I just got rid of a marlin 17v 17hmr that would shoot dimes at 200 all day. I don't have anything in a rimfire rifle to compare it too other than a marlin mod 60. I will tell you that my volquartsen scorpion will out shoot this rifle hands down.
"I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."
– General Douglas MacArthur

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2017, 09:49:49 AM »
I would start with a cleaning with some patches wet and dry,and shoot only subsonic in a couple of brands(SK magazine,Eley or something like that) to get a baseline.Then start another test using the best performing subsonic,and then play with the action screw torque.Start the torque at 15 ins lbs (dry),shoot a group or two.Increase torque 5ins lbs at a time up to 25 ins lbs.This should tell you where you are going.Sitting down shooting all that ammo you tried and not liking the results isn't a baseline to work with,too many variables.Sorting that shooter out has to take some time.Only change one thing at a time. Forget about your 17hmr that is a different duck,not a 22lr.Keep some notes to refer to.There is more lots more but that is where I would start.

R

Offline Jkid01

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2017, 12:14:34 PM »
I will try that Ronnie. Sounds good, trying to remove some variables. My experience with other rifles was totally different than this. This rifle was so all over the place i couldn't really tell what it liked and what it didn't. Forget that I even had subsonic with me. Just switching from one sv to another was causing a poi shift of 6"+! I realize it will have a pretty good shift going from sv to subsonic.
    I did shoot a little of the eley before I left and I don't believe that my gun liked it as well as the cci subs. I'm going to order some more subsonic. Hopefully have it by this weekend and try it again.
"I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."
– General Douglas MacArthur

Offline painter

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2017, 01:17:10 PM »
SV ammo is subsonic. Anything listed under 1125 fps is subsonic.

Of the ammo you listed...federal auto match 1200 fps, cci mini mag hp 1235 fps, cci subsonic hp, cci velocitior  1435 fps, Remington golden bullitt rn 1255 fps, browning small game-target  1255 fps, eley sub hp... only two are subsonic, and the rest are actually high velocity.

Some rifles do very well with HV ammo, yours doesn't.
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but not the ability.

Offline Jkid01

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2017, 05:35:24 PM »
Yea I know that only two types were subsonic. Every box other than the eley has the speed listed on the box. Sorry I was under the impression that standard velocity was just above the speed of the speed of sound. For example mini mags.
"I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."
– General Douglas MacArthur

Offline painter

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2017, 06:59:43 PM »
Don't be sorry. It's just a technicality.

Have you checked your barrel grub screws to make sure they're torqued correctly? CZ recommends 44 inch pounds. Many people feel that's too much and use 35in/lbs. Some rifles come with them loose.
Not every rifle shoots best free floated. Lot's of people find that a pressure point, or several, in the barrel channel improves accuracy.

Get yourself some SK, or Wolf like Ronnie suggested, and give it a go.
I had the right to remain silent...

but not the ability.

Offline Jkid01

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2017, 08:43:41 PM »
Thanks painter. No that's one thing I haven't tried. I appreciate the heads up on the grub screws. Where should I set them? 44 or 35 or somewhere in between? I set the stock at 30 in lbs and I thought that felt a little tight. I had planned on adjusting the  torque on the action screws if I ever get it to tighten up.

I think the next time I go out I'm going to get a bigger target so that I don't have to adjust my scope so much. That way when I switch ammo and I get a poi shift maybe they will all land on the target and I can immediately see my grouping without having to chase it.
 Wolf and sk are two brands I'm not familiar with. Should I just look for subsonic in both brands?
"I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."
– General Douglas MacArthur

Offline painter

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #10 on: May 02, 2017, 06:29:21 AM »
I'd set the grub screws at 35.

SK Magazine, SK Standard+, or Wolf Target.

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/standard-plus-22lr-lead-round-nose-40-grain-50-rounds?a=1337614

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/wolf-22-lr-40-grain-500-rounds?a=1590837

https://www.sportsmansguide.com/product/index/500-rounds-sk-22lr-40-grain-lrn-ammo?a=1503353

Not affiliated with SG, they just have the stuff, and I wanted you to see the boxes. If you can buy it locally great. All those are the same ammo in different packaging. The SK magazine is supposedly STD+ that didn't pass QC. You don't need to buy all three.

You could also try some Eley Target.

You shouldn't have huge swings in POI with ammo that's all close in velocity. What scope are you using, and are you sure it's sound?
I had the right to remain silent...

but not the ability.

Offline Ronnie

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #11 on: May 02, 2017, 10:11:12 AM »
Thanks painter. No that's one thing I haven't tried. I appreciate the heads up on the grub screws. Where should I set them? 44 or 35 or somewhere in between? I set the stock at 30 in lbs and I thought that felt a little tight. I had planned on adjusting the  torque on the action screws if I ever get it to tighten up.

I think the next time I go out I'm going to get a bigger target so that I don't have to adjust my scope so much. That way when I switch ammo and I get a poi shift maybe they will all land on the target and I can immediately see my grouping without having to chase it.
 Wolf and sk are two brands I'm not familiar with. Should I just look for subsonic in both brands?

Don't start at 30 ins lbs on trigger guard screws start at the low end it is easier that way.Don't try to group without some torque changes. You say you thought about screw torque after it grouped it is the other way,shoot some groups get a baseline and change only the torque to see if a change was caused.This is a road to sucess when you apply the changes one at a time.22lr's are in their own world a lot also depends on the wind that can be a troubling event also but for now get that baseline in a notebook.Shortly the changes will show results.When all this has been done it we can move on to more tweaks. Hope this helps.

R

Offline Jkid01

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #12 on: May 02, 2017, 08:15:37 PM »
I may have worded my response wrong. The only reason I touched the action screws was because I took the stock off to adjust the trigger. I put it back to 30 in lbs because that's what cz calls for. My plan was to find what ammo it likes then I was going to start to adjust  torque on the action screws only after I had a grouping well. I am trying to do it one step at a time I just got a little frustrated  trying to find out what ammo it likes. Y'all say  some of these rifles don't like to be free-floated? I have yet to see a rifle that doesn't shoot better  being floated and bedded,  that's been my experience with centerfire anyway. I understand rimfire is a totally different world. I'm getting my first hand experience of it now.
"I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."
– General Douglas MacArthur

Offline painter

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #13 on: May 02, 2017, 08:19:36 PM »
CZ doesn't call for 30 in/lbs on action screws.

From the FAQ's on CZ-USA... http://cz-usa.com/support/faq/

Q: “What are the correct torque specs for the 455 action screws?”

A: The correct 455 torque specs for wooden stocks is 25 in/lbs.
I had the right to remain silent...

but not the ability.

Offline Jkid01

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Re: Feeling a little frustrated...
« Reply #14 on: May 02, 2017, 08:22:01 PM »
 Painter I have a brand-new vortex Viper 6 x 20 x 44 on a brand-new set of Talley rings. It should be sound. All of my rings are  talked to spec and have thread locker on them.
"I am concerned for the security of our great Nation; not so much because of any threat from without, but because of the insidious forces working from within."
– General Douglas MacArthur

 

anything