Author Topic: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?  (Read 645 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline copemech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1363
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #15 on: July 09, 2017, 01:25:51 AM »
I had to work today so I had time to do my YouTube refresher on 1911 trigger stuff. I damit to being a bit torn over this gun. I love it and hate it. It is old, ugly and blue. I would have never gone out and bought this gun because it cost too much and was blue, and a beautiful blue at that which requires much protection and maintenance.

I am more of the ride'm hard and put'm away wet type, till next time. Stainless works better for me or a park finish or just good paint like a CZ! With this piece of history in original condition I feel almost obliged to retain its originality for the sake of posterity. Not sure just how many near perfect examples are out there, but?

Oh, I will shoot it, yet only on occasion.

I would really prefer a commander hammer and grip safety along with a LH safety for me,  but that would be for me!

I think I will just get a Wilson mainspring for six bucks and keep the original, Look at the rest and possibly polish a bit while I tweak the Wilson, yet make no other changes. But trust me, if that stuff is not shiney when it comes out of the gun, it will be. O0  3.5 lb or so will be just fine.  O0



Offline vwpieces

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
  • Bang, Bang, Bang
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2017, 12:06:14 AM »
Congrats on the 1911. I am a fan as much as CZ's.
Rather than bending the spring I would slightly round off (smooth) the cut edges of the spring that contact the disconnector, also polishing the disconnector/sear contact surfaces to the spring. Same on the Front side of the Disco/sear that contact the back of the trigger bar. Light file on the spring edge and 2000 grit (against flat surface) on the disconnector. I Never use a deremel and a polishing wheel as seen on the internet...

I bet that alone will get you 1/2 pound off. Mostly just the spring edge if it is a new spring.

Meet the Twins
The 9mm is my latest creation (2017 birthday), 45 was built last year (birthday present Me to Me) both built and hand fitted parts (EGW, Excellent stuff and 20min away from me) including cutting the slide rails.
Both are 3.5in ramped bull barrel officers in Stainless.



and honestly the very first shot out of the 9MM last Friday @ 10yards
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 12:16:08 AM by vwpieces »
Sorry, had to remove the list of firearms due to server overload. I hope you now have a more pleasant experience on this forum.

"Hey, do you want to try my Glock?"
No thank you. Want to try my CZ P-01?
"Hell Yeah, DoooD, thats sweet"

Offline copemech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1363
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2017, 01:02:28 AM »
Wow V-dub those are pretty darned awesome! Did I mention how I love STAINLESS! Now if I could just get that ckeckering on the front and back strap of my CZ75 range queen!

And thank you for the suggestions. When I disassemble this thang for inspection I may just do all that, kinda depends upon findings. I know these were pretty much hand tweaked, but still a production gun.

It is like going back in time by 40 years. Not a lot has changed here over time, but possibly we have learned a trick or two. I do admit that I love the Dremel now. Back in the old days my fingers would get really sore! O0


Offline vwpieces

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 516
  • Bang, Bang, Bang
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2017, 02:36:11 AM »
Best part on the Stainless  builds is No finish coating or bluing to do or wear off. All parts are SS including the Barrels. Weather-Proof! I did put the brushed finish on the sides of the frame and slide and can be easily touched up if scratched. Front strap checkering was done on the frame already, does match the back MSH perfectly for a very nice grip. Another Full size I built got a polished SS slide. Yes, Sanded and polished by hand.

No Dremel, seriously... 2000 grit on a piece if glass for the flat surface. You will see that the surfaces more than likely were not flat. And forgot, drag the spring contact edges on the 2000 after filing. You will see the wear on the used spring as the blue is gone. Get under the little hook tab too. You'll see when you in there.
Sorry, had to remove the list of firearms due to server overload. I hope you now have a more pleasant experience on this forum.

"Hey, do you want to try my Glock?"
No thank you. Want to try my CZ P-01?
"Hell Yeah, DoooD, thats sweet"

Offline Dave O

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2017, 10:37:16 AM »
The Mark IV Series 70 Gold Cup National Match pistols design incorporated a sear depressor and a collet barrel bushing. Instead of properly fitting the sear and hammer as was done in the previous Colt Gold Cups, a depressor was incorporated into the Series 70s to prevent the hammer from "following". The collet bushing was used to eliminate hand fitting the barrel/barrel bushing that was done in the earlier Gold Cups. 

Most Mark IV Series 70 Gold Cups that have been fully disassembled no longer have the stamped steel depressor and depressor spring since they're very small and extremely hard to reinstall. As for the three fingered collet barrel bushing, they tend to break so having a spare on hand is a good idea.

Based upon my 40 years of shooting properly modified Mark IV Series 70 Gold Cup National Match 45s your rear sight is indeed very high.

And yes I know a little about 1911s including trigger work.   
« Last Edit: July 10, 2017, 10:43:56 AM by Dave O »

Offline copemech

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1363
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2017, 11:56:49 PM »
The Mark IV Series 70 Gold Cup National Match pistols design incorporated a sear depressor and a collet barrel bushing. Instead of properly fitting the sear and hammer as was done in the previous Colt Gold Cups, a depressor was incorporated into the Series 70s to prevent the hammer from "following". The collet bushing was used to eliminate hand fitting the barrel/barrel bushing that was done in the earlier Gold Cups. 

Most Mark IV Series 70 Gold Cups that have been fully disassembled no longer have the stamped steel depressor and depressor spring since they're very small and extremely hard to reinstall. As for the three fingered collet barrel bushing, they tend to break so having a spare on hand is a good idea.

Based upon my 40 years of shooting properly modified Mark IV Series 70 Gold Cup National Match 45s your rear sight is indeed very high.

And yes I know a little about 1911s including trigger work.

WoW, that's some good stuff right thar! I was aware of the split barrel bushing, not that they were necessarily prone to breakage.

The depressor and spring is a bit Depressing! I looked it up on the Numrich  parts list and sure enough! So what the heck do you do? Just take it out? Obviously it would be just another spring force to overcome adding to total pull force. Could it work well if used and be preferred in a light mainspring application? I am not sure, and still not sure exactly how it works based upon the poor illustration. Thoughts and suggestions appreciated here.

Another question, on the Wilson Combat website, they list their mainspring and a Colt mainspring, stating that they use IT in their custom builds. Any ider which to get here?

Offline milq

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 366
    • Steel on target
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #21 on: July 11, 2017, 01:55:40 AM »
vwpieces, what frames are you using?
NRA Basic Pistol Instuctor, IL FCCA Instructor.

http://jc-steelontarget.blogspot.com/ and check out www.illinoiscarry.com to learn more about CCW in IL.

Offline Dave O

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #22 on: July 13, 2017, 01:43:28 PM »
The Mark IV Series 70 Gold Cup National Match pistols design incorporated a sear depressor and a collet barrel bushing. Instead of properly fitting the sear and hammer as was done in the previous Colt Gold Cups, a depressor was incorporated into the Series 70s to prevent the hammer from "following". The collet bushing was used to eliminate hand fitting the barrel/barrel bushing that was done in the earlier Gold Cups. 

Most Mark IV Series 70 Gold Cups that have been fully disassembled no longer have the stamped steel depressor and depressor spring since they're very small and extremely hard to reinstall. As for the three fingered collet barrel bushing, they tend to break so having a spare on hand is a good idea.

Based upon my 40 years of shooting properly modified Mark IV Series 70 Gold Cup National Match 45s your rear sight is indeed very high.

And yes I know a little about 1911s including trigger work.

WoW, that's some good stuff right thar! I was aware of the split barrel bushing, not that they were necessarily prone to breakage.

The depressor and spring is a bit Depressing! I looked it up on the Numrich  parts list and sure enough! So what the heck do you do? Just take it out? Obviously it would be just another spring force to overcome adding to total pull force. Could it work well if used and be preferred in a light mainspring application? I am not sure, and still not sure exactly how it works based upon the poor illustration. Thoughts and suggestions appreciated here.

Another question, on the Wilson Combat website, they list their mainspring and a Colt mainspring, stating that they use IT in their custom builds. Any ider which to get here?

What's your Gold Cup's trigger's pull weight? Is the pull "crisp" regardless of its weight? If so, changing the mainspring in search of a lighter trigger pull may not be necessary... or may not work. If the pull is crisp adjusting and/or replacing the sear spring may be the way to go. 
 
A little more history... in addition to the depressors and collet barrel bushings, my two late 1970s Series 70 Gold Cups came with 19# Main Springs and 14# Recoil Springs to cycle the commercial 185 grain "Target" loads of the day. (I'm told some came with the standard 16# Hard Ball springs.) The depressors were removed, the sears and hammer legs properly reworked and the recoil springs were replaced with 18.5# springs and Wilson Shok-Buffs. The main springs remained in both pistols for many thousands of H&G 200 grain/950 fps rounds. However, after the second collet bushing broke, the barrels were re-cut straight and proper barrel bushings fitted.

Offline Billyram

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #23 on: July 13, 2017, 05:18:51 PM »
I've never seen many of the mark IV bushings break and have known some to last many thousands of rounds. So I wouldn't worry too much about the bushing or the trigger and just shoot it. Most folks shooting Gold Cups would send them off to be accurized and that would include a new barrel and bushing before anything broke.
I would put a few thousand rounds through it before I did anything. That way you will know a bit about what you would want to do with it.
Billy

Offline Dave O

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #24 on: July 15, 2017, 11:52:20 AM »
I've never seen many of the mark IV bushings break and have known some to last many thousands of rounds. So I wouldn't worry too much about the bushing or the trigger and just shoot it. Most folks shooting Gold Cups would send them off to be accurized and that would include a new barrel and bushing before anything broke.
I would put a few thousand rounds through it before I did anything. That way you will know a bit about what you would want to do with it.
Billy


I've also have heard the same thing. Unfortunately wasn't as lucky. Both my Colt Mark IV-70 GC bushings broke. The first at approximately 7K and the second at 9K rounds. The slide stops lasted a bit longer. My brother's Colt Mark IV-70 GC slide stop broke at 3.5K rounds. Mr. Wilson supplied the new stops for all three GCs.

Offline eastman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1305
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #25 on: July 15, 2017, 01:49:07 PM »
The wisdom that was imparted to me a couple years ago was that if your Colt with the fingered bushing breaks a finger, the pistol will continue to break that same finger on future bushings. It is a manufacturing defect with the pistol, not the bushing.

YMMV
I don't look like my avatar!

Offline Billyram

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 25
Re: So who here really knows about 1911 trigger work?
« Reply #26 on: July 15, 2017, 03:45:02 PM »
I've never seen many of the mark IV bushings break and have known some to last many thousands of rounds. So I wouldn't worry too much about the bushing or the trigger and just shoot it. Most folks shooting Gold Cups would send them off to be accurized and that would include a new barrel and bushing before anything broke.
I would put a few thousand rounds through it before I did anything. That way you will know a bit about what you would want to do with it.
Billy


I've also have heard the same thing. Unfortunately wasn't as lucky. Both my Colt Mark IV-70 GC bushings broke. The first at approximately 7K and the second at 9K rounds. The slide stops lasted a bit longer. My brother's Colt Mark IV-70 GC slide stop broke at 3.5K rounds. Mr. Wilson supplied the new stops for all three GCs.
I had a Gov. Model Mark IV That I lost count of the rounds put through it mostly G.I. ball but it did finely break. I sent it off and had it fitted with a new barrel and non mark IV bushing. Nothing else broke on this gun with many M-27 cans run through it. I keep a spare slide stop but don't believe I've ever broke one. Back in the 70s Colt wasn't using MIM parts and the surplus parts weren't either.
Billy

 

anything