Author Topic: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question  (Read 776 times)

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Offline C. Andrew Dunning

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Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« on: July 11, 2017, 10:27:08 AM »
Good morning!

Would one of you be willing to speak into any real differences between the "regular"/"consumer" (black and gold box) Sellier&Bellot 124g 9mm FMJ and their "European government contract" (white box) version manufactured by Ruag?  I'm thinking, specifically, in terms of a 2075 RAMI and a CZ "cousin" (Jericho).

Thanks.

C. Andrew Dunning
Nashville, TN

Offline oldfrank

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2017, 10:50:47 AM »
I have no personal experience with the contract S&B but used to shoot a lot of the S&B in other guns especially a 9X18 Makarov that ate a bunch of it.
I always found S&B to be warm ammo but always functioned well.

Just for interest, this is what SGAMMO says about the RUAG:

1000 round case of 9mm Luger 124 grain FMJ European government contract ammo. Boxer primer, non-corrosive, non-magnetic. Made for Sellier Bellot under contract by Ruag in Germany. The story on this ammo is that Sellier & Bellot won a contract for the EU government but had a lot of the ammo manufacturing sourced out to Ruag in Germany. This is why the ammo is branded as sellier bellot, but made in Germany rather than the regular S&B Czech factory. This is the overrun ammo left over from that EU government contract at a discount price. High quality brass case target ammo, standard pressure, non-magnetic copper jacket. Great for all purpose shooting / training.

Offline JoeSig

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2017, 12:43:03 PM »
Don't know anything re the Ruag ammo - have shot a lot of regular S&B [used to be green & gold box?] stuff.

My understanding is S&B consumer does run a little hotter than traditional Win whitebox, Rem, UMC, etc.

It runs more towards but not identical to +P pressures.

Offline Tyerone

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #3 on: July 12, 2017, 10:31:09 PM »
You'd think that if it were made to euro govt spec, then it would be NATO spec, right?  My full size loves Win NATO, the Rami prefers 147gr (esp HST for SD) for great groupings.

Offline painter

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2017, 07:47:31 AM »
You'd think that if it were made to euro govt spec, then it would be NATO spec, right?  My full size loves Win NATO, the Rami prefers 147gr (esp HST for SD) for great groupings.
SAAMI max pressure is ~35K psi.

CIP max pressure is ~34K psi.

NATO pressure is 36.5K psi. It is also a CIP spec, so you can't assume anything.
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Offline Beak Boater

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2017, 02:26:13 PM »
Have shot both lots. The green box 9mm 124 and the last 1000 rds I ordered from Target Sports USA was the white box S&B 124. It all went bang and cycled the gun. As said S&B seems a little warmer than WWB or UMC. Don't have any Chrono results to back that up. But S&B is good stuff regardless which box its in.

https://www.targetsportsusa.com/sellier-bellot-9mm-ammo-124-gr-fmj-sb9b-r-p-76501.aspx
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 02:28:49 PM by Beak Boater »
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Offline Son of the Gael

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2017, 04:25:40 PM »
You'd think that if it were made to euro govt spec, then it would be NATO spec, right?  My full size loves Win NATO, the Rami prefers 147gr (esp HST for SD) for great groupings.
SAAMI max pressure is ~35K psi.

CIP max pressure is ~34K psi.

NATO pressure is 36.5K psi. It is also a CIP spec, so you can't assume anything.

Add to that for 9mm +P:

SAAMI MAP 38.5K psi (Transducer).


Offline C. Andrew Dunning

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2017, 10:39:13 PM »
Thanks for the info.  I've got a 1000-rnd box of the white-box on its way.  The black-and-gold-box ammo shot better than anything I've tried so far so I figured it was a safe bet.  And...SG's price was kinda hard to pass up...

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Offline Nick1946

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #8 on: July 28, 2017, 01:13:54 PM »
^^^
So, how did the ammo work out for you?  I shoot the S&B 115 grain a lot and really like it and Fiocchi(Ozark,MO) and just ordered a case of the S&B 124 grain from SGAmmo.

Offline C. Andrew Dunning

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #9 on: July 28, 2017, 02:51:57 PM »
Still awaiting the return of my RAMI from CZ, so, no chance to test the European S&B, yet.  My wife and I ARE headed to the range tomorrow, though, w. my Jericho and plan on shooting a box or 2...

Offline Rcher

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #10 on: July 28, 2017, 03:27:34 PM »
Last weekend I shot 150 rounds of S&B 9mm Luger 124 grain by Ruag with my Sarsilmaz Mega.
This ammo is great! Very clean and accurate. Never tried original S&B so can't compare.

The description of this ammo on sgammo.com says "standard pressure", so I think you should be Ok with it.
I also didn't notice that it is more "hot" than Freedom Munitions (tried new 115/124gr and HP 115gr). But it is more clean ammo.

Offline C. Andrew Dunning

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 04:11:33 PM »
So, how did the ammo work out for you?

Now that my RAMI is back from CZ and I've had some range time, I can say that I'm pretty pleased.  Zero ammo problems and, surprisingly, much better accuracy than what I had been shooting (Magtech 115g).  I wasn't expecting to see the difference, but, wow...
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 05:20:41 PM by C. Andrew Dunning »

Offline Nick1946

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2017, 01:39:41 PM »
Glad that you have the RAMI back.  Thanks for the update on the ammo.  I received my ammo last week and plan on trying it this week along with a new outer recoil assy spring I got from Midway.

Offline Practical Shooter

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2017, 02:17:40 PM »
The story on this ammo is that Sellier & Bellot won a contract for the EU government but had a lot of the ammo manufacturing sourced out to Ruag in Germany. This is why the ammo is branded as sellier bellot, but made in Germany rather than the regular S&B Czech factory. This is the overrun ammo left over from that EU government contract at a discount price.

What is the EU government???? I never heard of it. Each European country is its own government, but I don't think their is an EU government.
« Last Edit: August 06, 2017, 06:19:38 PM by Practical Shooter »

Offline Rcher

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Re: Sellier&Bellot 9mm Question
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2017, 04:43:32 PM »
The story on this ammo is that Sellier & Bellot won a contract for the EU government but had a lot of the ammo manufacturing sourced out to Ruag in Germany. This is why the ammo is branded as sellier bellot, but made in Germany rather than the regular S&B Czech factory. This is the overrun ammo left over from that EU government contract at a discount price.

What is the EU government???? I never heard of it. Each European country is its own government, but I don't think their is as EU government.

EU government = European Council + European Commission

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Council

 

anything