Evo w/tailhook brace

[steveTA1983]

Is it legal to use it as "something" other than a brace (you know what I mean) as long as you don't modify the brace in any way??  I know the ATF opinion has changed, but just wondering what the pits here think 

[Dezfan]

A axe is still an axe even if you use it as hammer.

[Asmodeus]

Shouldering the brace no longer counts as "the construction of an illegal SBR".  This week.  Day.  Afternoon... minute. 

Keep in mind decisions about these things are likely made by someone very similar to this. 




And can change at any second...

[steveTA1983]

Shouldering the brace no longer counts as "the construction of an illegal SBR".  This week.  Day.  Afternoon... minute. 

Keep in mind decisions about these things are likely made by someone very similar to this. 




And can change at any second...

Lol!! Good point!!

[Asmodeus]

Also the tail hook is phenomenal.  No shade to the other options out there but I have a hard time understanding why you would pick anything but the tailhook/folder at this point. 

[armoredman]

As of right now, the opinion letter that was sent stated incidentally shouldering the device didn't constitute redesign, but deliberately altering it, (removal of nylon strap on some, changing length of pull to be useless as a brace, etc.) would then constitute a redesign thus making the firearm into a Short Barreled Rifle, thus subject to all NFA rules. I believe that opinion letter was addressed to only one actual manufacturer, but is being held through oral contacts with ATFE as being applicable to all Arm Brace manufacturers. I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but my understanding is that if you shoulder your TailHook as an incidental act, it will not be considered an illegal act. This is not legal advice and should not be taken as such, your mileage may vary, subject to availability, not available in all states, no refunds or returns, do not use in the shower, not to be used as a safety device and subject to verification.

[SouthernScorp]

anyone know if using this for SBT-Evo will "redesign" into a stock?

https://www.midwestindustriesinc.com/product-p/mi-sbtsa.htm

since you're basically bolting both halves of the brace together rather than strapping them together.

[steveTA1983]

As of right now, the opinion letter that was sent stated incidentally shouldering the device didn't constitute redesign, but deliberately altering it, (removal of nylon strap on some, changing length of pull to be useless as a brace, etc.) would then constitute a redesign thus making the firearm into a Short Barreled Rifle, thus subject to all NFA rules. I believe that opinion letter was addressed to only one actual manufacturer, but is being held through oral contacts with ATFE as being applicable to all Arm Brace manufacturers. I am not a lawyer, nor do I play one on TV, but my understanding is that if you shoulder your TailHook as an incidental act, it will not be considered an illegal act. This is not legal advice and should not be taken as such, your mileage may vary, subject to availability, not available in all states, no refunds or returns, do not use in the shower, not to be used as a safety device and subject to verification.

I figure so it unless you get told to stop, and if so, play dumb.  Ignorance is a bliss

[armoredman]

I believe I heard of one person being arrested for the shouldering of a brace during the time when ATFE said it was illegal, but, IIRC, the case was dismissed. Can't remember where that was. I remember the first opinion letter that said it was OK, and then everybody had to poke the bear over and over again, until ATFE got irked. We can only try our best to get SBR/SBS off NFA if the SHUSH Act or HPA actually get passed/signed into law. Long shot, but better chances than we've had before.

[steveTA1983]

I believe I heard of one person being arrested for the shouldering of a brace during the time when ATFE said it was illegal, but, IIRC, the case was dismissed. Can't remember where that was. I remember the first opinion letter that said it was OK, and then everybody had to poke the bear over and over again, until ATFE got irked. We can only try our best to get SBR/SBS off NFA if the SHUSH Act or HPA actually get passed/signed into law. Long shot, but better chances than we've had before.

We can keep our fingers crossed.  People are getting all pissy because it has t been done yet,  but we still have 3.5 years and there is more pressing issues ATM. 

[Asmodeus]

there is more pressing issues ATM.

Nah, that's pretty pressing.  We need to START with the removal / gutting of the NFA.  Then go from THERE in the next 3.5Y. 

I want my money's worth for the election of the glorious captain cheeto.  He promised a wall, and other bigly things for us gun doods if we all swore loyalty.  I was there with bells on, family and friends in tow pushing his button.  And so was everyone else I know.  They have this saying called... F U pay me.  Now I want paid.  We have 3.5Y's for them to put together a feeble effort just in time for the midterm elections to swing the balance out of our favor and nothing to get done.  Still don't have 7n6 back.  Vepr's are still banned.  Can't get ammo from China still.  Bafte is still consulting the magic 8 ball whenever they respond to the opinion letters. 

Pay me.  I want paid.  The left is going to babble about Russia for the next 10 years regardless of what he does.  So why not give them a few other things to talk about.  This is the problem with us.  Oh just hang on, we don't want to offend anyone and we're busy allowing CNN to run interference for 6 months... 

When instead it should look like this...

[armoredman]

Chill. Keep that for the RKBA forum, please. This has to deal with ATFE and the interpretation of the opinion letter, all we can go on right now.

[Jjason]

For the record I run a Tailhook setup and shoot it however I want.  I don't believe the ATF has any interest in having their "rules" on braces challenged in court.  No one has ever been arrested for "misusing" a shoulder brace.

That said, the Tailhook used w/ a factory stock is quite a bit different from what GHW submitted to the ATF for approval.  Basically when the ATF approves your product they say it is ONLY approved if used exactly as you submit it and the final product should not change dimensions, design, etc.



Although I hope no one ever asks, it is possible the ATF would not have approved the Tailhook if it were submitted attached to a factory Scorpion stock.  Who knows.  Had GHW submitted the sample attached at the rear of the tube I'd be more confident that they'd be okay with our Scorpion setups.  It sucks that they chose to mount it in the middle of the tube.

It should also be stated that most products sold by SB Tactical today are FAR different than their initial products.  As far as I'm aware they only received approval for the original models.  I could be wrong about that but I've seen them state anything to the contrary.  I've never seen a letter specifically for the PDW brace, for example.

All in all the ATF are telling us "we don't care, just don't do anything stupid."  It is up to us to leave well enough alone and just enjoy the freedoms we have.

[Gear Head]

The ATF moved the Tailhook around on that tube in the approval letter. We sent it to them in a different place than in the pictures and when we got it back it was in yet another position. So they knew exactly how it worked.

I've seen a lot of nit picking over letters. Believe me I understand the confusion to some of them. We submitted the Mod 1, 2 and 3 to get approval for every version and did. We didn't just submit one prototype made from a foam material with 2 straps and then publish an edited approval letter to go with the many different production versions made from a stiffer rubber material and removed half the straps. Which by the way, the ATF specifically says you can't remove the straps remember.

Our full un-edited approval letters are out there and we aren't trying to hide anything from the consumer. The ATF is planning a public publication outlining more of their opinions concerning braces. When that happens I have no idea. Remember they operate at the speed of government. In the mean time, enjoy your braces from whatever brand you wish. Pistol braces have been around for over 100 years now (1910) and are only getting more popular.

[armoredman]

This is true, and thank you. A gunsmith buddy of mind decided to do something goofy and added a ten inch barrel to a Jennings J-22 and a wire forearm brace to it, as an experiment. Incidentally, there was absolutely zero chance of "shouldering" that brace, unless you were about the size of a GI Joe doll. He was able to hit a steel target at 100 yards with the monstrosity. It was been scrapped. But it worked.