Author Topic: 26 inches Overall  (Read 298 times)

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Offline excalibur

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26 inches Overall
« on: August 07, 2017, 05:28:57 PM »
I am wondering about the 26 in overall for a firearm so that I could add a vertical foregrip to it. Does it count if the entire thing is solid or if I have the folding brace thing?

I have the SB Tactical folding brace thing on mine and I plan to replace the muzzle device to something a bit longer. Once it's changed, the overall length will be above 26 inches, but does it still count if you have a folding brace?

Offline SouthernScorp

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Re: 26 inches Overall
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 05:34:53 PM »
Unfolded length. Muzzle device doesn't count unless permanently attached. You cannot mount a vertical grip to a scorpion pistol without registering it as an SBR no matter how long you make it. You can however use an angled/afg grip
CZ Scorpion Evo S1 Pistol:

SLR Synergy Mini comp
SBT-EVO Brace
PMM Safety Levers
Dual HBI Prostock Charging Handles
Gearhead Mag Release
HBI Trigger Spring
HBI Delta Trigger
PMM QD Front & Rear
Magpul MS1 + QDs
Holosun HS515cu on ADM low mount
Vendetta VP-17-A AFG

Offline excalibur

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Re: 26 inches Overall
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2017, 05:54:47 PM »
That's why I'm gonna have it pinned to it. With the folding brace, it's already in inch shy

Offline SouthernScorp

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Re: 26 inches Overall
« Reply #3 on: August 07, 2017, 06:10:36 PM »
but it's still registered as a pistol, vertical grips are a no-go nfa item on anything under 16 inch barrel without the $200 tax stamp. It's stupid, but it's the law  ???
CZ Scorpion Evo S1 Pistol:

SLR Synergy Mini comp
SBT-EVO Brace
PMM Safety Levers
Dual HBI Prostock Charging Handles
Gearhead Mag Release
HBI Trigger Spring
HBI Delta Trigger
PMM QD Front & Rear
Magpul MS1 + QDs
Holosun HS515cu on ADM low mount
Vendetta VP-17-A AFG

Offline Nicksterr

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Re: 26 inches Overall
« Reply #4 on: August 07, 2017, 10:11:17 PM »
Can anyone point to where it says it is in fact okay to stick an angled foregrip on a pistol?

Offline SouthernScorp

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Re: 26 inches Overall
« Reply #5 on: August 07, 2017, 10:30:58 PM »
there are several atf white letters around stating it is okay to use an angled grip. They specifically point out the magpul AFG 1 and AFG 2 are "okay" but a quick phone call a year ago I was told anything that cannot be held like a broomstick or with an enclosed fist is not considered a vertical grip. Other people/members throughout various forums got similar responses. Here a pictorial "might not be a real word" but it fits in my dictionary  ::).

for an example I'll use the fortis shift in it's 2 styles:

this would be a no go NFA item:



see here, even angled how you can get an enclosed fist around it



this version of the shift, the short AFG would be okay to use

CZ Scorpion Evo S1 Pistol:

SLR Synergy Mini comp
SBT-EVO Brace
PMM Safety Levers
Dual HBI Prostock Charging Handles
Gearhead Mag Release
HBI Trigger Spring
HBI Delta Trigger
PMM QD Front & Rear
Magpul MS1 + QDs
Holosun HS515cu on ADM low mount
Vendetta VP-17-A AFG

Offline MP5Guy

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Re: 26 inches Overall
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 09:40:12 AM »
That's why I'm gonna have it pinned to it. With the folding brace, it's already in inch shy

Someone may step in to correct me, or perhaps I'm misunderstanding having it "pinned", but my comprehension of the ATF regulation on muzzle devices indicates a minimum of three welded points to permanently affix the muzzle device to the muzzle, for it to count as part of the 'length' of the barrel.

Offline Destructo6

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Re: 26 inches Overall
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 10:36:12 AM »
Quote
Someone may step in to correct me, or perhaps I'm misunderstanding having it "pinned", but my comprehension of the ATF regulation on muzzle devices indicates a minimum of three welded points to permanently affix the muzzle device to the muzzle, for it to count as part of the 'length' of the barrel
I don't believe that is correct.

Most of the factory welded muzzle devices are pinned on the bottom, with a single weld bead over it. High temp silver solder has also been an acceptable means.

Offline excalibur

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Re: 26 inches Overall
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 01:41:50 PM »
https://johnpierceesq.com/can-you-add-a-vertical-fore-grip-to-an-ar-pistol/

Unless this only applies to AR pistols

And I checked. Pinned and welded refers to barrel length. Like if I wanted to have an AR with a 14.5 in barrel but pinned and welded a muzzle device to make it 16 inches. If overall, it's above 26 inches, it's fine

Online John A.

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Re: 26 inches Overall
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2017, 02:41:32 PM »
I am wondering about the 26 in overall for a firearm so that I could add a vertical foregrip to it. Does it count if the entire thing is solid or if I have the folding brace thing?

I have the SB Tactical folding brace thing on mine and I plan to replace the muzzle device to something a bit longer. Once it's changed, the overall length will be above 26 inches, but does it still count if you have a folding brace?

Vertical grip on a handgun is classified as an AOW because it's a pistol, has nothing to do with overall length and everything to do with it's a pistol

An AOW is an NFA device.  Same as a short barrel rifle, machinegun, or destructive device like a grenade or rocket propelled grenade.

Read my sig line as to why.
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline SouthernScorp

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Re: 26 inches Overall
« Reply #10 on: August 08, 2017, 03:17:09 PM »
Theres alot of stupid restrictions out there. We're already able to go out and basically buy a tax free sbr off the shelf which is registered as a "pistol" throw a brace on and your damn near there. The only thing you can't get away with is putting a vertical grip on your handguard, that suddenly reclassifies it as an nfa item...not the short overall length, barrel, hi cap mag etc...  ::)
CZ Scorpion Evo S1 Pistol:

SLR Synergy Mini comp
SBT-EVO Brace
PMM Safety Levers
Dual HBI Prostock Charging Handles
Gearhead Mag Release
HBI Trigger Spring
HBI Delta Trigger
PMM QD Front & Rear
Magpul MS1 + QDs
Holosun HS515cu on ADM low mount
Vendetta VP-17-A AFG