Author Topic: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo  (Read 1281 times)

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Offline HSThompson

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #30 on: August 24, 2017, 12:33:31 AM »
This is the 6th consecutive time taking this gun out that it has malfuntioned on me this started in the last 1,000 rounds or so, last summer was when I first had an issue, my buddy was shooting the gun and it continued to fail, 4 times through 2 19 round mags. The failures have all happened with Winchester White box (200 rounds), Remington UMC (150) my friend's Dad's reloads (75) and a box of 50 I can't remember right now not Federal Champion, all of them 115gr. which is the reason bullet weight was mentioned in the first place. Usually the gun will malfuntion every mag or 2, yes I keep track of my magazines. Of the other 500 rounds of various ammo all 124gr. no issues, pardon me for thinking the bullet weight may be the issue. As stated before the same ammo ran through my Shield, 1911 9mm and Glock w/o issue, I wasn't, nor have I been shooting the CZ much lately as I was tired of dealing with the issue and had a lot of 115gr. ammo to go through. My local LGS suggested asked me what I was running and said they've found similar situations with the gun and to step up bullet weight, I verified this with another dealer. I've also been shooting my .40, .45 and .357 sig a lot lately, no malfuntions in any gun (even the 1911), so I have a hard time believing this is how I'm handling the firearm while shooting, but thanks. I've asked around and figured I'd ask the forums before getting ahold of the manufacturer.

Offline HSThompson

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #31 on: August 24, 2017, 12:39:34 AM »
For future reference, what's the issue with Federal Champion 9mm FMJ's in the aluminum cases?

Online IDescribe

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #32 on: August 24, 2017, 12:49:14 AM »
all of them 115gr. which is the reason bullet weight was mentioned in the first place.

I get why.  You saw a correlation.  I totally understand.

Online IDescribe

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #33 on: August 24, 2017, 12:53:13 AM »
For future reference, what's the issue with Federal Champion 9mm FMJ's in the aluminum cases?

The rims are either slightly out of spec or at the raggedy edge.  Regardless, they can cause a variety of problems related to extraction.  I have had stove-pipe double-feeds with them in my 75 CZ-ShadowLine while other pistols have worked fine with them.  But it's crap ammo.  It's the case, not the pistol.

Offline HSThompson

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #34 on: August 24, 2017, 12:56:47 AM »
For future reference, what's the issue with Federal Champion 9mm FMJ's in the aluminum cases?

The rims are either slightly out of spec or at the raggedy edge.  Regardless, they can cause a variety of problems related to extraction.  I have had stove-pipe double-feeds with them in my 75 CZ-ShadowLine while other pistols have worked fine with them.  But it's crap ammo.  It's the case, not the pistol.

Good to know

Offline copemech

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #35 on: August 24, 2017, 01:41:37 AM »
If all three bullet weights were load to the same PF, would the one with the one with the lesser peak force yet the longest duration be able to accelerate the slide better than  the one with the highest force for a lesser period until the bullet exits the barrel?

Free vocab tip: the amount of time something remains in process, like the amount of time a bullet is in the barrel, can be referred to as dwell time;)

  Yes, I am aware of that term, yet others may not be.

That ALONE makes a discussion like this impossible for us, the ignorant masses.  ;)

And there within lies the answer, as I am too dumb!

So is the significantly greater energy of the lighter bullet at the same PF overcome by the increased dwell time of the heavier bullet?  None of us knows.  And I would imagine that getting a single answer based on same power factor is impossible.  There's too much more involved.

And then we should not get into powder burn rates.

« Last Edit: August 24, 2017, 01:46:15 AM by copemech »

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #36 on: August 24, 2017, 05:55:14 AM »
Some 115 grain FMJ ammo is pretty weak/underpowered.  Seen complaints more than once of reliability issues with Win. White Box or Remington ammo, here and there on the internet.

Does it fail with self defense type hollow points?  I know they're more expensive to buy/shoot, but they are also "hotter" and result in more recoil.

There are some brands/type of 115 grain FMJ that are "hot" but I have no idea what they are.  I'm a reloader.  I go to the range with the same ammo I carry (loud/fast/recoils more).

Have you measured the cartridge overall lengths on the various rounds?  I have one Colt Series 70 that just does not "like" short cartridges.  I have to seat bullets out longer for it to feed reliably.  It's fine with 230 grain bullets, but the lighter stuff ends up getting stuck between the magazine and slide.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline Wobbly

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #37 on: August 24, 2017, 03:26:00 PM »
The failures have all happened with Winchester White box (200 rounds), Remington UMC (150), my friend's Dad's reloads (75)...

• WWB has been slipping in quality over the last several years, as M1A4ME noted
• Remington UMC always has been the most under-powered ammo available. It's the only US branded ammo we've always unanimously recommend NOT to buy.
• "Your friend's Dad's reloads"... well, what can anyone say other than not to shoot other people's reloads.

Strike those 3 ammo sources off your 'buy list' forever and see if things don't improve. In the computer industry they used to have a saying, GIGO (garbage in; garbage out). It's the same in guns. If you don't feed the gun first rate ammo, then don't expect first rate performance results.

► Of course, you simply didn't know these were on our DNB list, and that's a empty area of your education we are presently filling.

► And too, these same exact issues are how 99% of the guys on this forum got to be reloaders. We simply got tired of paying high prices for poorly performing and inconsistent factory ammo.

Solution
If you are not ready to start reloading for yourself, there are several certified reloading businesses who make really good ammo. Find those vendors listed in the "Sources" stickie at the top of the forum.

 ;)
In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Immature reloaders ask: What's wrong with this gun?
Mature reloaders ask: What did I do wrong ?

Offline HSThompson

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #38 on: August 24, 2017, 10:12:55 PM »
Some 115 grain FMJ ammo is pretty weak/underpowered.  Seen complaints more than once of reliability issues with Win. White Box or Remington ammo, here and there on the internet.

Does it fail with self defense type hollow points?  I know they're more expensive to buy/shoot, but they are also "hotter" and result in more recoil.

There are some brands/type of 115 grain FMJ that are "hot" but I have no idea what they are.  I'm a reloader.  I go to the range with the same ammo I carry (loud/fast/recoils more).

Have you measured the cartridge overall lengths on the various rounds?  I have one Colt Series 70 that just does not "like" short cartridges.  I have to seat bullets out longer for it to feed reliably.  It's fine with 230 grain bullets, but the lighter stuff ends up getting stuck between the magazine and slide.

I haven't measured various rounds but have put around 700 rounds of various defensive rounds with no failures. It just weirds me out a bit when the other guns eat the same ammo, much more so. Thanks for the info, UMC's now off my list. I better start buying equipment....

Offline HSThompson

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #39 on: August 24, 2017, 10:18:19 PM »
The failures have all happened with Winchester White box (200 rounds), Remington UMC (150), my friend's Dad's reloads (75)...

• WWB has been slipping in quality over the last several years, as M1A4ME noted
• Remington UMC always has been the most under-powered ammo available. It's the only US branded ammo we've always unanimously recommend NOT to buy.
• "Your friend's Dad's reloads"... well, what can anyone say other than not to shoot other people's reloads.

Strike those 3 ammo sources off your 'buy list' forever and see if things don't improve. In the computer industry they used to have a saying, GIGO (garbage in; garbage out). It's the same in guns. If you don't feed the gun first rate ammo, then don't expect first rate performance results.

► Of course, you simply didn't know these were on our DNB list, and that's a empty area of your education we are presently filling.

► And too, these same exact issues are how 99% of the guys on this forum got to be reloaders. We simply got tired of paying high prices for poorly performing and inconsistent factory ammo.

Solution
If you are not ready to start reloading for yourself, there are several certified reloading businesses who make really good ammo. Find those vendors listed in the "Sources" stickie at the top of the forum.

 ;)

I guess I'll strike more ammo off the list for the CZ. Thanks for the input. I'll run some different ammo through it & see if the problem persists. I know I'm probably just paranoid but I don't want it to start happening with defensive loads. I honestly don't trust the pistol at this point so it 's a really pretty plinker for the foreseeable future

Online recoilguy

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #40 on: August 25, 2017, 10:20:01 AM »
Its is my experience that almost every time someone doesn't trust "the gun"........................
it's not the gun. They all have reasons to think it is, and spend a great deal of time explaining why they are right.
If you have a lot of guns and a lot of 115 ammo that doesn't run in one of your guns, use it in your other guns.
Then put the correct ammo in the gun that requires the correct ammo to function at it's optimum level. Or sell it to someone who will.

If you have other gun that work just fine with your ammo stash and your shooting technique then I say.........use them. (I am not an expert just a guy with experience and a lot of range time)
There are some pretty smart guys on here giving you honest and accurate answers to your question.
It's clear you still think its the gun.....go buy some SD rounds run them through your CZ SP-01. That will answer your question and put to rest
the speculation and as you say paranoia . IMHO You really should practice with SD rounds if you want them to be your SD round. To not trust a SD round in a gun that cheap plinker rounds doesn't work or your dads buddies reloads seems odd to me. The conclusion I draw is don't use reloads I did not load, or the brands that don't work. If that is cost prohibitive. Save a few extra bucks and do it. 124g almost any round of good ammo runs in SP-01's like butter. 115g not so much. you know that now. you have a pile of 115 take out your Glock, Shield or 1911 and enjoy those guns as they eat up your 115 stash. When you are almost out or have a couple extra bucks saved.....get some 115's for your other guns and some 124 for your CZ's or get all 124's cause the Glocks and Shield will eat that too. Looser tolerances enable variety in this situation.   

Put the correct Ammo in the SP-01 and you will be very pleased. but do not assume because a Glock or S&W run the ammo that because a CZ does not that the gun is flawed. It is made to optimally run different ammo, give it what it made for and you will never doubt it again. Do not assume because plinker ammo doesn't run 100% that SD ammo wont.

A likeness I draw is if you have moto cross bike or a car that requires premium gasoline, and all your other bikes or cars run on regular so you put regular in the moto cross bike or car, it runs but it runs like crap.......it not the bike or the car, its not even the gasoline, its the guy having the wrong expectations from the fuel he is using.

RCG
........Its that you shoot!

Offline Wobbly

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #41 on: August 25, 2017, 11:37:49 AM »
I'm scanning this topic again. I see where you note you have 'several different brands of guns and the ammo in question shoots fine in those', but I don't see those guns listed. Could be my poor eye sight. But it occurs to me that plastic guns don't take the same level of lubrication that an all-metal gun (like the SP-01) requires.

Could you please detail the level, location, types, and brands of lubrication you have been applying to your SP-01, please.

Just to shortcut the discussion, on my SP-01 I use the same oil I use in my car engine, 5W20 synthetic, and apply it once a month. I place one drop on each side rail, one drop on the barrel/bushing, and one drop on the hammer pivot point. Motor oil will migrate from those 4 discrete points to other moving parts of the pistol. My pistol is not "dripping", but it does carry an oil sheen.

 ;)
In God we trust; On 'starting load' we rely.

Immature reloaders ask: What's wrong with this gun?
Mature reloaders ask: What did I do wrong ?

Offline Son of the Gael

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #42 on: August 28, 2017, 02:04:19 AM »
Wobbly, third post in the thread he says  "My shield, 1911 commander & Glock eat it all."

HSThompson, I think the other guys advise to try a different 115 gr that is loaded faster is very good.  I don't shoot much factory ammo, but I "hear" Sellier & Bellot is pretty warm.

Offline painter

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #43 on: August 28, 2017, 12:04:07 PM »
From experience, Geco ammo is full power.
I had the right to remain silent...

but not the ability.

Offline Boris_LA

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Re: SP-01 Stovepipe/double feed w/115gr ammo
« Reply #44 on: August 28, 2017, 11:32:40 PM »
From experience, Geco ammo is full power.
And so S&B in 9mm. Both 115gr and 124gr. I shot many cases of them.