Author Topic: SER IV ORF VZ58  (Read 551 times)

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Offline ChillyWilly72

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SER IV ORF VZ58
« on: August 22, 2017, 02:36:00 AM »
I'll try to make this short...I was part of a group buy at another forum way back in 2008. The forum worked with Ohio Rapid Fire who made receivers and 922 parts along with czech parts kits which were built into complete rifles by Veronesi Custom Firearms.

http://www.theakforum.net/files/VZ58-BUILD.pdf

I bought the gun, poop happens, I move away, the gun gets put up unfired. Years later I find out there are feeding problems and start looking into only to find out find out ORF is no more because the owner kicked at age 33. Life is still crazy and i dont have the time or motivation to deal with it so the gun goes back in storage. Fast forward to 2017 and new commifornia laws require I make it safe/featureless (idiots, i can hardly wait to leave this freakin state) and now I have the bug to get it running like a Swiss watch.

So i have been reading and trying to figure things out with a bunch of posts that no longer have pics, watching any vids i can only to get frustrated and confused so I post on the site i went in on the group buy with only to get...buy a czech gun....which is fine, not possible but i understand and that is the best advice I have got.... now im here asking for your help.

The 1st & only problem I know of is a feeding issue (feeds nothing, zip, nada...bullets hit the barrel...about 1/16" too low). Some say its a low feed ramp, some say mag issue, some say that the missing half moon cut out next to bolt hold open is the issue, some say lack of bevel on bottom of bolt rails is the fix, I am not a smith or machinist but I am a tinkerer. I want to go through and do what I can and if necessary send it to a smith if welding is required. Where should I start and what else should I check?

Thanks for your patience and I look forward to getting some help with this.

Jerry
« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:47:15 AM by ChillyWilly72 »

Offline TJNewton

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Re: SER IV ORF VZ58
« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2017, 01:26:11 PM »
Man, this Photobucket BS is a nightmare.  I found this thread on this site, but all the reference photos are, of course, gone.  It has to do with the sides of the rounds catching on some sharp edges. 

http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=78148.0

Are you using brass ammo?  It seems to be a bigger problem with brass.

Anyway, I did a search in Google images and was able to scavenge a few reference photos from the thread.  The first image is viewed from the top and shows a jam, which may or may not be the issue you're having:

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fi32.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fd16%2FCitizenPete%2Ff80f8103-1610-407a-bc8a-aa34e3c3a342_zps50kohlb1.jpg&imgrefurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.czfirearms.us%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D78148.0&docid=wuGF_ehN3Ixy3M&tbnid=_j-lnTPWjCXlUM%3A&vet=10ahUKEwj6v5r2q-vVAhULl1QKHQAjC5gQMwglKAAwAA..i&w=600&h=466&bih=710&biw=1536&q=site%3Awww.czfirearms.us%2090%20citizenpete%20brass&ved=0ahUKEwj6v5r2q-vVAhULl1QKHQAjC5gQMwglKAAwAA&iact=mrc&uact=8

This photo shows an unmodified view from the bottom:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWUILm9Rc2_E5Zj2cxBc77m2o7rJIrLPiMA7zwYy9PS8mpqgMuJg

This photo shows a view from the bottom after the modification:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSsnbgXey9QNgdZ5RzGL64l6LkU7dJKpp0L-XleRmYpWL69jwEK

I have a VZ58 disassembly video using a factory original select fire model and it has the beveled mods as described in the thread above, although to a much lesser extent.

Maybe you can mentally insert those images into the thread started by Citizenpete.  I hope it helps.

Offline ChillyWilly72

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Re: SER IV ORF VZ58
« Reply #2 on: August 22, 2017, 02:24:37 PM »
I read and have seen all but the last photo and that actually that does help, thanks. My conern was simply wanting to confirm that the original design did have these bevels. I was hoping that someone here might have an original that they could post a photo of or at least know about these ORF builds.

This is a photo i have been looking at where i can see a bevel on the bottom which is missing on mine but i cant clearly tell about the "triangle?" section because the photo is too dark...yours is much better

http://www.weaponeer.net/forum/uploads/dcorb/images/2009-08-30_165106_untitled.jpg

My thought is to create the bevel on the botton of the rails but not sure about how big a traingle (when i manually cycle i dont see it touch but i also have to fiddle because it wont feed unless i manipulate the bullet, i do see the scratch on the bullet after ejecting). Is that after pic representative of the original or smply the fix for the ORF receiver?

Im also wanting to check everything becuase if ORF screwed the pooch in one area (how can you f up a copy) i am worried there are other areas. So if anyone knows please chime in, if its a can of worms, just tell me check xxx first and ill start there researching on my own and posting what i find for others.

I also plan to create the little cut out for mag clearance (in the pic below next to the bolt release) which is on the original and missing on the ORF build.

http://cdn0.thetruthaboutguns.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Vz-58-Pic-17.jpg


« Last Edit: August 22, 2017, 02:33:33 PM by ChillyWilly72 »

Offline TJNewton

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Re: SER IV ORF VZ58
« Reply #3 on: August 22, 2017, 03:03:19 PM »
This is the video I referred to.  I highly recommend downloading a copy as it tends to be difficult to find and is an invaluable resource:



The area in question is shown at about 8:09 into the video.  There may be examples elsewhere.  You'll notice that the bevels in the video are tiny -- much, much smaller than in the picture I posted previously.  You could even say that the corners are just rounded off instead of flat-beveled.  The corners in all my VZ2008's are still sharp and don't affect feeding, although from what I understand, the VZ2008 receiver is significantly shallower than other builds, including the earlier generation of CitizenPete's VZ2008.

The amount needed to be removed may vary from firearm to firearm, depending on the depth of the receiver as well as several other dimensions.  Clearly, we're dealing with thousandths or hundreds of inches here.  The most aggressive you'd want to be is probably in fractions of a millimeter at a time.  As it's obviously vastly more difficult to add material that it is to take it away, going verrrrryyyy slowly would be best, although going as far as the mods shown in the thread I posted may very well have no adverse effects. 

This mod may be the cure, or do nothing at all.  Many other factors could be responsible.  It's a start and I hope it helps.

Offline ChillyWilly72

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Re: SER IV ORF VZ58
« Reply #4 on: August 22, 2017, 03:22:55 PM »
It is a great start....thanks

Offline ChillyWilly72

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Re: SER IV ORF VZ58
« Reply #5 on: August 23, 2017, 01:47:21 AM »
Played with it a little today and gave it a little bevel, oiled everything up and tried cycling ammo. Looking at it from every angle with a flashlight so i could see everything and nothing is touching...fn feed ramp is just too low...gonna start to look for someone to weld it up.

Hey, how can i measure to be sure?

Offline ChillyWilly72

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Re: SER IV ORF VZ58
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2017, 02:15:00 AM »
Found this regarding measurment

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTbQN02-Nfru3kxlGuz3v02u6o83cGxtrVuLQr7EqdUoiMMRdbgtQ

Using this as a guide, my measurement is a hair under .9, if i had to guess .89, which means i am not low....actually im not sure but tolerances dont seem to support a low feed ramp

Based on what i read here

http://www.theakforum.net/forums/66-czechoslovakian/153347-orf-receiver-question.html

Looks like for me the issue is the cartridge not being moved to the centerline.
« Last Edit: August 25, 2017, 02:04:33 AM by ChillyWilly72 »

Offline ChillyWilly72

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Re: SER IV ORF VZ58
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2017, 12:40:52 AM »
New question, how long is the feed ramp supposed to be? Barrel face to edge of feed ramp.

Offline TJNewton

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Offline ChillyWilly72

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Re: SER IV ORF VZ58
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2017, 02:17:14 PM »
No length info in that thread but thanks...ill post anything i find for the next person

Offline ChillyWilly72

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Re: SER IV ORF VZ58
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2017, 04:14:52 PM »
Went ahead and ground off the cresent shaped groove for the mags and nothings changed, except that all of my mags now fit better. Looks like I am going to need a welder...$%*&...this sucks...never again...

Offline ChillyWilly72

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Re: SER IV ORF VZ58
« Reply #11 on: September 15, 2017, 12:32:58 AM »
Forced March Fab aka Morgan made a great video regarding the varios issues with these receivers....and i happen to have all of them... :-\