In light of the Glock Gen 5 release...

[codfish04]

P-07 definitely is.

[badwrench]

 

Glock could be even greater but it needs another great idea but I think it used up the only one it had 20+ years ago.

And yet no other company offers anything substantially superior.

I've seen that statement recently, the quality of finish inside and out in Glocks are surpassed by many other companies. the triggers in Glock are not even close to many companies. The outside finish is sub par in Glock compared to many companies. The price of Glocks is very high for what you get. The sights are cheap and inadequate compared to many others. Glocks are ugly. There's more but I won't bore you. I call it substantially superior. If you don't I have no idea what your test is to show superiority.

You're overlooking a few things here, One reason Glock is a popular  is the fact that there is a huge aftermarket built around it. How many places on the 'net sell Glock parts? Last time I googled  "Glock parts" it went past 10 pages, now how many places on the 'net sell CZparts?  3?  The broad support for Glock is the very reason they are as popular as they are, sure they come with cheap sights but then again how many sight manfacturers offer sights for Glocks ? Just about every single one. How many offer sights for CZ's? 3-4  at the most... I've been in hardware stores that had Glock mags for sale, you'll never see CZmags for sale in a hardware store I can promise you that. This is why Glock will probably dominate pistol sales in this country for the forseeable future. Simply because that the pistols, and mags and spare parts are readily available from mutiple sources, and they are cheap. Like it or not, Glock is'nt going anywhere anytime soon.

I'm not missing anything, Glock is a gun with no craftsmanship, cheap junk parts.

I can get mags for my CZ's, HK's, S&W's, my Rugers, My Sigs, mySpringfields my Walthers, on and on and on.. If coarse I'm not a fool like many glock owners that put another $1000 in a literally $350 glock gun. Of coarse there's a fool born every day. I can get parts for all of my guns also.

Glock is the 1985 Ford Taurus of guns......The Sig P320 and the CZ P10c are the future. The only thing that comes close from glock is a glock 19 you spend another $500 on and that doesn't come close to the Sig 320 modularity, that's the future. In 20 years all will be modular in design.

Sig rushed a product out the door that they knew had fleas..They had NO intention of fixing anything, that was, until the drop saftey thing blew up in their face. Frankly, I hope that they lose their military contracts, they deserve to. Why anybody would buy a pistol from a company that sends a product out the door, knowing it isn't as safe as it should be is beyond me. I'll give you this modulairty is the way of the future, and right now, Beretta's entry into this market may be the better  choice, at least it won't shoot you if it's dropped.

[badwrench]

Fair answer.   I tend to mostly hear  how the new polymer framed, striker fired pistols  have triggers that outclass the Glock trigger.  They tend to do this by using fully tensioned strikers.  With some of the issues cropping up with fully tensioned strikers in many of the newer striker fired offerings I'm beginning to form an opinion of two classes of striker fired guns more than an outclassing.

Since many of the fully tensioned strikers seem to be prone to releasing the striker with any significant impact, such as dropping, striking the pistol they may not be the "best in class"  for defensive use.  Take a breath and let me explain further, because I can already hear people saying "I don't drop guns."  And "These guns don't just go off when dropped."

I"ll address the last statement first.  Correct, not every fully tensioned striker fired pistol will go off if the sear releases due to a drop or a blow to the pistol.  The striker block safety is there for a reason and as long as the trigger doesn't go rearward and deactivate that safety the gun will not fire, because the striker isn't contacting the primer.  But if the sear releases the striker, you may have a dead trigger and not know it.  It can be rectified by operating the slide just like an immediate action with any Failure to fire.  But it is a second or seconds which could be critical, and depending on the altercation, next to impossible to perform.

For the, "I don't drop my guns" crowd.  You either don't handle them enough in a day to day basis, haven't run hard enough with them, and have likely never been in a full contact fight with a firearm involved (not that any of that is a bad thing).  There was a thread on another forum just about "I dropped my gun" stories.  That site is mostly visited by LE, Military, Trainers and competitors.  Not all if the stories were about their personal weapons, but they have seen holsters missed, retention devices not engaged, people tripping and falling while running in pursuit or just from competative stage firing point to another.  They've been tackled and taken to the ground where a firearm gets slammed around a bit.  Friends of mine who were deployed have been near IEDs and thrown to the ground, in rocket and mortar attacks, fallen into ditches or holes in the ground on night patrols.  Basically there is an area where pistols absolutely can be subjected to severe impacts and even simple drops that can be from complacency just from handling them so much each day, to all out things beyond the operators control once a combative situation is encountered.  I'm just asking folks to look outside the box they may exist in and would apply the statement "I don't drop my guns" to.

Does this mean I condemn fully tensioned striker fired pistols as the shooting market continues to clamour for the ultimate, light weight, short travel, crisp release and short reset trigger with no external safeties?  Nope.  Have what you want or need to shav those hundredths and tenth a of seconds of the split times on the shot timer.  I'm just saying they MAY not be the best class for SERIOUS use.  I may be wrong.  But the P320 flap, whether it was justified fully or not, at least has me thinking and questioning where the "ultimate sweet striker fired trigger" fits in for handgunners.

I could'nt agree more this post , It should be a sticky...there is alot of sage advice in here for those willing to accept it, especially for the "I don't drop my gun crowd" you folks need to read that paragraph carefully....

[SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM]

I've seen that statement recently, the quality of finish inside and out in Glocks are surpassed by many other companies. the triggers in Glock are not even close to many companies. The outside finish is sub par in Glock compared to many companies. The price of Glocks is very high for what you get. The sights are cheap and inadequate compared to many others. Glocks are ugly. There's more but I won't bore you. I call it substantially superior. If you don't I have no idea what your test is to show superiority.

Superior? No such thing as a superior pistol,not even a glock. Superior raises the notion that a failure can't or won't happen. glocks fail like anything else and guns made by CZ.S&W,Walther,HK,Sig and others are on par with the same level of RELIABILITY today.

That's two post now without identifying this superior pistol.

I disagree, modularity is the future in guns and it's superior. Guns built with no roll pins in the frame is a big step, especially when you have polymer frames.  A fire control unit can be produced cheaply by the millions with high quality. i've owned hundreds of guns and I own a Sig P320 and have looked closely at it, modularity is the future and it's superior.

I disagree. Modularity may have it's place but it will never eclipse the market and it is not by any means superior. I've owned hundreds of guns too and traditional firearms will be around and in production long after we are gone. Once again superior calls for a product that won't fail. That product cannot be produced by any human being by any company.

I disagree, your definition of superior as being a gun that does not fail is dead wrong period. Superior doesn't mean perfect. Superior means the product is better than whatever you're comparing it to and can be defined.

Plus I don't agree with your idea that modularity isn't the future and the Mfg's realize it.

Yea well we'll see who's theory holds up down the road. Just because we disagree doesn't make me dead wrong just makes you ignorant to an opposing opinion.  By the way I said modularity has it's place but it won't overtake traditional firearms. The market is still to large for the oldies and wheel guns still sell like hotcakes. What the buying public wants will drive the market.

[jimjc]

I disagree, modularity is the future in guns and it's superior. Guns built with no roll pins in the frame is a big step, especially when you have polymer frames.  A fire control unit can be produced cheaply by the millions with high quality. i've owned hundreds of guns and I own a Sig P320 and have looked closely at it, modularity is the future and it's superior.

The P320 is "superior" ?? . Nation wide Cabela's has pulled ever P320 off their shelves. Many LE agencies have issued emergency orders to immediately turn in their P320s because they are discharging when dropped from as low as knee high or being hit on the back of the slide. There's a fury of vids on utube showing it. SIG is calling for a "Voluntary Upgrade" to fix this.

SIG Sauer went cheap on the P320. It's a P250 that they converted from hammer fired to a striker without designing a new model. Put a P250 and a P320 side-by-side. They are the same externally. SIG just plugged the back of the slide and frame where the hammer was for the P250.

P320 superior - NOT.

I don't post to people that are not honest with their posts so don't post to me again!!!

[deadduck357]

The P320 is "superior" ?? . Nation wide Cabela's has pulled ever P320 off their shelves. Many LE agencies have issued emergency orders to immediately turn in their P320s because they are discharging when dropped from as low as knee high or being hit on the back of the slide. There's a fury of vids on utube showing it. SIG is calling for a "Voluntary Upgrade" to fix this.

SIG Sauer went cheap on the P320. It's a P250 that they converted from hammer fired to a striker without designing a new model. Put a P250 and a P320 side-by-side. They are the same externally. SIG just plugged the back of the slide and frame where the hammer was for the P250.

P320 superior - NOT.

I don't post to people that are not honest with their posts so don't post to me again!!!

Not trying to get into a personal pissing match with you (or anyone) but nothing I just stated was dishonest, they're facts.

Can also add that SIG has a multi million dollar law suit against it by a LEO who dropped his duty belt with a P320 bolstered to it and it shot through his thigh causing him several surgeries.

There is also patent infringement charge against SIG by Steyr for the chassis system.

[Quercusmax]

Ah, Glocks.

People seem to love 'em or hate 'em.

To me, Glocks are the ball-point pens of the gun world:  Inexpensive (relatively speaking), plastic, and just work.  But with little to love.

I am really liking my metal CZs.  I am feeling love for them.

[badwrench]

Ah, Glocks.

People seem to love 'em or hate 'em.

To me, Glocks are the ball-point pens of the gun world:  Inexpensive (relatively speaking), plastic, and just work.  But with little to love.

I am really liking my metal CZs.  I am feeling love for them.

Pretty much sums it up, Glocks are soulless, cheap, but for the most part they work, and that's why people love them. CZ's on the other hand, have style, work just as well , and can  vastly be improved upon with a trip tp CGW, or CZC, both have their pros and cons, I have both and enjoy both.  Honestly, the only area where Glock trumps CZ, (and for that matter everybody else) is in aftermarket support. That's a area where they'll (Glock) will never be beat....ever..

[jimjc]

Ah, Glocks.

People seem to love 'em or hate 'em.

To me, Glocks are the ball-point pens of the gun world:  Inexpensive (relatively speaking), plastic, and just work.  But with little to love.

I am really liking my metal CZs.  I am feeling love for them.

Pretty much sums it up, Glocks are soulless, cheap, but for the most part they work, and that's why people love them. CZ's on the other hand, have style, work just as well , and can  vastly be improved upon with a trip tp CGW, or CZC, both have their pros and cons, I have both and enjoy both.  Honestly, the only area where Glock trumps CZ, (and for that matter everybody else) is in aftermarket support. That's a area where they'll (Glock) will never be beat....ever..

I pretty much agree with you. You may start seeing holes with the aftermarket parts with Glock because you now have a Gen 5 that doesn't share parts with the older glocks, that will double the parts companies need to keep in stock. So not everyone will carry all the parts for all the guns. 

I just don't see why you have so many Glock fan boys collecting Glocks, why would anyone collect such a plain un-interesting gun with no redeeming aspects about it. Lay it down and there's nothing to admire about it.

There are many that believe Glock was instrumental at setting the price of striker fired guns at to high of a level. Based on the lack of quality of the parts in Glock and the crudeness of the finish. they should be considerably cheaper. Glock is the most profitable gun maker in the business. It charges a lot of money for a few generic parts. Any Glock is a master in marketing.