Author Topic: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo  (Read 380 times)

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Offline Hutehund

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Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« on: September 06, 2017, 03:20:24 PM »
Freedom Munitions makes a subsonic, very heavy for caliber 165 gr RN 9mm cartridge, they call HUSH.  My Scorpion EVO 3 S1 loves this load.  Freedom's sister company, X-Treme Bullets, makes the 165 gr RN plated projectile, so I figured it was time to order the 165 gr bullets, and start to develop a load that would be comparable to the HUSH offering.  The issue of course, is that there is no load data that I can find for a 165 gr. 9mm plated bullet, so I don't know where to start.

Here's what I do know... the 165 gr. 0.356 diameter bullet length measures 0.728, and the HUSH cartridge OAL in the 165 gr version averages 1.145.  I have the following powders in inventory, so I would prefer to use one of them if possible to develop the load.  N-340; Unique; Power Pistol; BE-86; and 231.  My primers are CCI small pistol.

I would appreciate your collective thoughts on best powder choice and quantity for a starting load with a desired 950 fps, out of the 7.75" Scorpion barrel using this 165 gr. projectile.
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Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #1 on: September 06, 2017, 05:11:06 PM »
Commenting to follow. Interested in what all the seasoned realoders have to say.
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Offline dave33

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #2 on: September 06, 2017, 06:36:09 PM »
I have loaded the 165's using N320, Bullseye, and e3, out of the powders you have on hand 231 is probably closest to N320 on burn rate charts.  I used 2.9gr N320 and got an ave FPS of 815 for 134PF, this out of an XDM 5.25.  Didn't really care for the load too much, gun felt very sluggish and accuracy was not very good with any of the loads.  If I was going to try 231 I would probably start about 2.8 and see where that got me.


Offline John A.

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #3 on: September 06, 2017, 09:51:45 PM »
There are several reviews of the 165 gr bullets on xtreme's website that has some load data listed in them.

I noticed that titegroup is around 2.8-3.0 gr, which is about where I think it should be for that load without having done any testing on my own.

I usually use 3.2 gr with 147 gr, so ~3.0 give or take a little sounds about right.
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Offline copemech

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2017, 11:59:10 PM »
Just about any bullet at 124 and up will easily run subsonic. Why make things more difficult?

Online IDescribe

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2017, 06:07:45 AM »
I'm sorry, but this is more or less a waste of time. 

If someone has an SD load their gun loves, and that person wants to produce an inexpensive load that mimics the recoil impulse, allowing them to practice with apples-to-apples gun behavior, THAT makes sense.  But that's not duplicating the round the gun loves, that's duplicating the recoil impulse to a narrow purpose.

You can't just find some load your gun loves for plinking or target, buy the same bullet, and reproduce the magic combination that your gun loves.  You're missing at the very least the powder type, and maybe more.  So unless you can track down the powder they use, you're not going to reproduce that load.

The stated velocity of FM's 9mm Luger 165gr HUSH is 800 feet/sec.  Given that you gave us 950 feet/sec as the target velocity, which is the velocity of FM's 300 Blackout 220gr HUSH ammunition, I will assume that you simply Googled Freedom Munitions HUSH, took the first link you saw, and that you haven't chronoed the 165grammo yourself, in which case you don't really know how fast the ammo shoots from your EVO, in which case your task just got even harder, and that would be IF you had the right powder, which you don't.

I would appreciate your collective thoughts

My thoughts -- Even if you could duplicate that load (which is very unlikely), why would you want to?   Finding a commercially available load that your gun likes doesn't mean it's the best load for the gun, just the best you've bought.  If you load your own ammo, and your goal is to duplicate some commercial load, you're leaving a lot of potential on the table.  I would suggest you try to develop a load your gun loves without basing it on something FM did.  FM is not something to aspire to.  You can buy excellent 115gr or 124gr jacketed bullets for less than what you pay for XTreme novelty uber-heavy 165gr plated, or you could buy 147gr jacketed for just a hair more.  Buy some good bullets, and develop your own load.  Power Pistol and BE-86 rock.  Start there.


Offline John A.

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2017, 09:01:29 AM »
I've never used the hush ammo with 165 bullets.

I have used a lot of 158's in my suppressed 9's, though I can't tell a vast reduction between them and I really wonder if the 165's would show a barely noticeable difference either, but at the same time, I like to launch big heavy projo's.  So that's reason enough to get some to try to load on my own.

But I can certainly tell a slower rate of fire when I shoot the 158's through my SMG.
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Offline Kenneth

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2017, 12:27:39 PM »
165's heck I have enough problem loading my 147's where they will feed in all of my CZ's.

I use Hi-Tek coateted 147's in my EVO and they are very accurate with 3.2 grains of N320.

I'm also running an Octane 45.


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Offline Hutehund

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2017, 02:48:13 PM »
I enjoy heavy for caliber loads.  It's a preference.  And while FM may not be "aspire to" worthy for the caliber of experts here, whose shooting is more geared toward competitions and bench, The 165 HUSH is plenty accurate and quiet in my suppressed Scorpion.  I'm a plinker who likes to tinker...That's all.  :)  I would prefer to "roll my own."  I just value the experience of the folks on this forum.  Thanks again for the comments.   
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Online IDescribe

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2017, 04:24:25 AM »
I enjoy heavy for caliber loads.  It's a preference.   The 165 HUSH is plenty accurate and quiet in my suppressed Scorpion.  I'm a plinker who likes to tinker...That's all.  :) 

This is more or less what I figured.  There's no real ballistic reason for you to try to duplicate that load.  Not for nothing, I was not clear you were shooting with a suppressor.  That does actually change my recommendations.  While you can still produce great sub-sonic loads with 124/125gr bullets or even 135gr, 147gr makes sense, as well.

But I still wouldn't recommend that XTreme 165gr bullet.  It's senseless.  Personally, I think XTreme should be ashamed of themselves for foisting this gimmick on the 9mm shooting public.  Of your options, that bullet has the most loading obstacles, it's the least safe, the most difficult to extract accuracy from, has the least accuracy potential overall, and it's one of the most expensive -- one of the most expensive for ZERO ballistic advantage.  It's senseless. 

XTreme 165gr RN -- $108/1000 (per 500 + shipping)
Precision Delta 147gr -- $104/1000 (per 2,000 -- free shipping)
ACME 145gr RN -- $72/1000 (per 2,500 case -- free shipping)
ACME 147gr TCFP -- $72/1000 (per 2,500 case -- free shipping)
ACME 150gr SWC -- $72/1000 (per 2,500 case -- free shipping)

If you're a plinker, and you're paying a 40-50% price hike vs superior 147-ish coated lead bullets for the sake of using the heaviest bullet possible with no ballistic reason for it, you're cheating yourself.

If price is irrelevant, and you're choosing an inferior plated bullet over a 147gr jacketed bullet, you're cheating yourself.

Basically, you're cheating yourself.  ;)

Offline Hutehund

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2017, 08:38:52 AM »
I enjoy heavy for caliber loads.  It's a preference.   The 165 HUSH is plenty accurate and quiet in my suppressed Scorpion.  I'm a plinker who likes to tinker...That's all.  :) 

This is more or less what I figured.  There's no real ballistic reason for you to try to duplicate that load.  Not for nothing, I was not clear you were shooting with a suppressor.  That does actually change my recommendations.  While you can still produce great sub-sonic loads with 124/125gr bullets or even 135gr, 147gr makes sense, as well.

But I still wouldn't recommend that XTreme 165gr bullet.  It's senseless.  Personally, I think XTreme should be ashamed of themselves for foisting this gimmick on the 9mm shooting public.  Of your options, that bullet has the most loading obstacles, it's the least safe, the most difficult to extract accuracy from, has the least accuracy potential overall, and it's one of the most expensive -- one of the most expensive for ZERO ballistic advantage.  It's senseless. 

XTreme 165gr RN -- $108/1000 (per 500 + shipping)
Precision Delta 147gr -- $104/1000 (per 2,000 -- free shipping)
ACME 145gr RN -- $72/1000 (per 2,500 case -- free shipping)
ACME 147gr TCFP -- $72/1000 (per 2,500 case -- free shipping)
ACME 150gr SWC -- $72/1000 (per 2,500 case -- free shipping)

If you're a plinker, and you're paying a 40-50% price hike vs superior 147-ish coated lead bullets for the sake of using the heaviest bullet possible with no ballistic reason for it, you're cheating yourself.

If price is irrelevant, and you're choosing an inferior plated bullet over a 147gr jacketed bullet, you're cheating yourself.

Basically, you're cheating yourself.  ;)

Thank you, Sir.  Your point is very well taken and appreciated.  I printed this list to try your recommendations.  I'm still stumbling and bumbling here, and this information is most helpful.

As a side note, upon closer examination your avatar is hysterical.  Very O0
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Online IDescribe

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2017, 09:05:36 AM »
As a side note, upon closer examination your avatar is hysterical.  Very O0

The dog's facial expression is perfect.  ;)

Offline nicky

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Re: Duplicating 9mm HUSH ammo
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2017, 09:14:35 PM »
What dog? O0

 

anything