Author Topic: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)  (Read 670 times)

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Online canyoncarver

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Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« on: September 07, 2017, 09:38:08 AM »
Hey guys,

I've been waffling between the Sig MPX and CZ Scorpion Evo for a while now and yesterday at LGS I caved in when they offered me a bit of a discount on the flash can version to the point that the price was nearly a wash with the regular pistol.  This seemed like a neat idea since I could run my Rugged Obsidian suppressor threaded onto the Scorpion immediately and have an m-lok barrel shroud already on the weapon for easier shooting.

Now I'm kind of questioning if I made a dummy decision.  I took the factory flash can off after heating it up with a heat gun.  Put my Obsidian on and realized that the first thing I'd want to do is put a tri-lug adapter on the barrel.  It looks like to have enough access to tighten the adapter properly I'd have to take the hand guard off.... but if I do that and put the tri-lug on it doesn't look like it would be possible to reattach the hand guard since it needs to go directly over the barrel.  I'd also have to find some kind of tri-lug compatible adapter to go on the weapon when I wasn't shooting it with the suppressor to avoid the risk of toasting my fingers... as I'd be unable to use the factory "flash can".

Anyone have any input?  Am I confused that I can just remove the retaining nut on the barrel shroud with a 21mm socket extension?  Does it rotate out left or right? I have seen disassembly videos of the regular Scorpion pistol that required use of a special tool to access a slim retention nut but mine doesn't seem to be put together that way.

I also bought a pile of magazines for it at the same time, the two 20's that came with it eject easily but every single one of the 30's hangs up in the mag well so I guess I'll need to closely inspect them and figure out what the difference is, or search this forum for answers.

I hope that I end up loving this pistol instead of scratching my head about it.  I plan to run it as a pistol with brace in the near term and if I really enjoy it then I'd go ahead and SBR it.  I was originally going to build a dedicated 9mm upper for one of my existing SBRs before deciding to buy a "real" sub-gun semi-auto 9mm.

Thanks!
« Last Edit: September 07, 2017, 09:41:22 AM by canyoncarver »

Offline rcbif

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #1 on: September 07, 2017, 09:46:06 AM »

Online canyoncarver

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #2 on: September 07, 2017, 11:37:11 AM »
Thanks for the video, that was very helpful!

Online canyoncarver

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #3 on: September 07, 2017, 03:32:43 PM »
Okay, I got back from the first trip to the range with the Scorpion and have a few observations.

First off, I like shooting it a lot more than I anticipated... even shooting it with irons.  It is definitely not as sleek and sexy (and control friendly) as the MPX but it was surprisingly good shooting suppressed, not gassy at all.  It fed everything I fed it from 115 grain blazer to 124 grain AE to 147 grain AE that was Hollywood quiet coming out of the Obsidian can in its short configuration.  Not a huge fan of the magazines but they are relatively inexpensive so hard to whine too much when for a couple of hundred bucks you can end up with a back pack full of them.

Secondly, this hand guard is not for me.  I will be removing it and replacing it with something shorter to make install and removal of the suppressor faster and easier and to give me a more compact package for transportation.  I will probably sell the factory hand guard and flash can pretty cheap.

Third.... I'm going to try to resist (will buy pistol brace first) but there's a very high likelihood that I will be SBRing this thing so I can run factory stock on it.  I will run it with the pistol brace for a month or two once I get a new hand guard on it and see what I think about going the SBR route.

I do still have a question.... does the factory hand guard on this configuration just come off with 21mm socket as it appears to do?  Does it follow standard "turn left to loosen" threading?  I don't want to damage it.

Thanks.

Offline Kenneth

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #4 on: September 07, 2017, 05:17:32 PM »
Get an HBI handguard and you will be much happier. I would also get a SB brace or SBR it. They are a ton of fun.




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Offline SouthernScorp

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #5 on: September 07, 2017, 06:00:00 PM »
+1 on hbi handguards. They match the factory lines really well. and customer service/support is one of the best companies I've ever dealt with aside from Busse
CZ Scorpion Evo S1 Pistol:

SLR Synergy Mini comp
SBT-EVO Brace
PMM Safety Levers
Dual HBI Prostock Charging Handles
Gearhead Mag Release
HBI Trigger Spring
HBI Delta Trigger
PMM QD Front & Rear
Magpul MS1 + QDs
Holosun HS515cu on ADM low mount
Vendetta VP-17-A AFG

Online canyoncarver

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #6 on: September 07, 2017, 06:34:01 PM »
Okay, 21mm deep socket and breaker bar along with slight effort (not a ton of locktite on the nut fortunately) and the old hand guard is off.

I am definitely going to go with HBI for a new charging handle, safety delete, and hand guard.

Which tri-lug adapter should I go with?  I'm interested in the one from HK parts that tightens up and indexes against the steel retention washer and locking tab that is normally on the pistol barrel.  Since mine didn't have the pistol flash hider on it I'm missing that part... is there a way to obtain it separately?

Or should I just go with someone else's tai-lug adapter and locktite it?

Thanks.

Offline Thrillbilly

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #7 on: September 07, 2017, 10:08:58 PM »
Okay, 21mm deep socket and breaker bar along with slight effort (not a ton of locktite on the nut fortunately) and the old hand guard is off.

I am definitely going to go with HBI for a new charging handle, safety delete, and hand guard.

Which tri-lug adapter should I go with?  I'm interested in the one from HK parts that tightens up and indexes against the steel retention washer and locking tab that is normally on the pistol barrel.  Since mine didn't have the pistol flash hider on it I'm missing that part... is there a way to obtain it separately?

Or should I just go with someone else's tai-lug adapter and locktite it?

Thanks.

Manticore offers one,  https://www.manticorearms.com/scorpion-evo-tri-lug-adapter.html

Offline Kenneth

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #8 on: September 07, 2017, 10:14:42 PM »
Is your can a 9mm or a .45 can?

I ask because a LOT of people have had baffle strikes using the 3 lug system on a 9mm can. I personally use direct thread on my .45 can.


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Online canyoncarver

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #9 on: September 08, 2017, 10:08:31 AM »
Okay, 21mm deep socket and breaker bar along with slight effort (not a ton of locktite on the nut fortunately) and the old hand guard is off.

I am definitely going to go with HBI for a new charging handle, safety delete, and hand guard.

Which tri-lug adapter should I go with?  I'm interested in the one from HK parts that tightens up and indexes against the steel retention washer and locking tab that is normally on the pistol barrel.  Since mine didn't have the pistol flash hider on it I'm missing that part... is there a way to obtain it separately?

Or should I just go with someone else's tai-lug adapter and locktite it?

Thanks.

Manticore offers one,  https://www.manticorearms.com/scorpion-evo-tri-lug-adapter.html

Thanks!

Do you guys know if the compensator retention spring can be added to the barrel if the weapon didn't ship with one?  I'm not sure how it indexes to the barrel since I don't see any notches or anything it would retain itself with.

Online canyoncarver

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #10 on: September 08, 2017, 10:09:38 AM »
Is your can a 9mm or a .45 can?

I ask because a LOT of people have had baffle strikes using the 3 lug system on a 9mm can. I personally use direct thread on my .45 can.


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The Rugged Obsidian is a 45 can.  I could put a 9mm end cap on it to squeeze it down another dB or two but if people have had baffle strikes with 3 lug mounts I probably wouldn't run the risk of doing that.

Offline Thrillbilly

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #11 on: September 08, 2017, 11:57:58 AM »
Okay, 21mm deep socket and breaker bar along with slight effort (not a ton of locktite on the nut fortunately) and the old hand guard is off.

I am definitely going to go with HBI for a new charging handle, safety delete, and hand guard.

Which tri-lug adapter should I go with?  I'm interested in the one from HK parts that tightens up and indexes against the steel retention washer and locking tab that is normally on the pistol barrel.  Since mine didn't have the pistol flash hider on it I'm missing that part... is there a way to obtain it separately?

Or should I just go with someone else's tai-lug adapter and locktite it?

Thanks.

Manticore offers one,  https://www.manticorearms.com/scorpion-evo-tri-lug-adapter.html

Thanks!

Do you guys know if the compensator retention spring can be added to the barrel if the weapon didn't ship with one?  I'm not sure how it indexes to the barrel since I don't see any notches or anything it would retain itself with.

Welcome.

I don't have a supressor, nor know much about them. But, there are a lot of very knowledgeable folks on here that probably know the answer.

Offline HBi

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #12 on: September 08, 2017, 12:11:10 PM »
Canyoncarver - Cool user name! You can never really "mess up" by purchasing an EVO. They are so modular! You will always have options to reconfigure them as your needs change. Regarding your carbine handguard and flash can, you are correct. Flash can is 1/2-28 RH threads, you can remove it with a strap wrench if its super tight. Once removed, you have access to the "carbine" barrel nut. It is 21mm hex, it has thread lock on it, but not nearly as much as some of the crazy pistol barrel nuts. You can definitely do yours without a torch and bunch of sware words. By removing the barrel nut you can then replace the handguard. Your model has the "pistol" barrel, with both M18x1 and 1/2-28 threads on it (the flash can was using the 1/2-28 and the barrel nut the M18x1). So, if you wanted, you could install a factory "pistol" handguard. Or any of the aftermarket handguards.

If you wanted to dedicate your Obsidian to the Evo via 3lug, we would recommend one of these 1/2-28 adapters:

https://www.griffinarmament.com/Revolution-3-Lug-Adapters-p/93l.htm
https://www.hkparts.net/shop/pc/HK-3-Lug-Adapter-1-2-X-28-5p106.htm

And you can torque them to your barrel, WITH the factory carbine handguard installed using this tool inside of a socket:
https://naahtoolworks.com/product/hk-3-lug-adapter-wrench/
https://hbindustries.net/store/shop/3-lug-adapter-wrench-tool/ (select "tall" type)

If that makes sense?

It sounds like, what you might want to do, is purchase a 3lug adapter and a tool (as you will need them regardless of your handguard choice) and give them a try with your current setup? But... you do you Canyoncarver! Love that name...

Offline st381183

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2017, 12:35:47 PM »
Hey guys,

I've been waffling between the Sig MPX and CZ Scorpion Evo for a while now and yesterday at LGS I caved in when they offered me a bit of a discount on the flash can version to the point that the price was nearly a wash with the regular pistol.  This seemed like a neat idea since I could run my Rugged Obsidian suppressor threaded onto the Scorpion immediately and have an m-lok barrel shroud already on the weapon for easier shooting.

Now I'm kind of questioning if I made a dummy decision.  I took the factory flash can off after heating it up with a heat gun.  Put my Obsidian on and realized that the first thing I'd want to do is put a tri-lug adapter on the barrel.  It looks like to have enough access to tighten the adapter properly I'd have to take the hand guard off.... but if I do that and put the tri-lug on it doesn't look like it would be possible to reattach the hand guard since it needs to go directly over the barrel.  I'd also have to find some kind of tri-lug compatible adapter to go on the weapon when I wasn't shooting it with the suppressor to avoid the risk of toasting my fingers... as I'd be unable to use the factory "flash can".

Anyone have any input?  Am I confused that I can just remove the retaining nut on the barrel shroud with a 21mm socket extension?  Does it rotate out left or right? I have seen disassembly videos of the regular Scorpion pistol that required use of a special tool to access a slim retention nut but mine doesn't seem to be put together that way.

I also bought a pile of magazines for it at the same time, the two 20's that came with it eject easily but every single one of the 30's hangs up in the mag well so I guess I'll need to closely inspect them and figure out what the difference is, or search this forum for answers.

I hope that I end up loving this pistol instead of scratching my head about it.  I plan to run it as a pistol with brace in the near term and if I really enjoy it then I'd go ahead and SBR it.  I was originally going to build a dedicated 9mm upper for one of my existing SBRs before deciding to buy a "real" sub-gun semi-auto 9mm.

Thanks!

Yes, you did buy the wrong Scorpion and I will free you of your buyers remorse by gladly taking it off your hands. PM me for my FFL address.......JK....You are getting great advice and I think you are going to be very pleased with your EVO once the dust settles, congratulations on joining our ever expanding Scorpion owners club.

Offline Asmodeus

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Re: Did I buy the wrong Scorpion pistol (flash can version)
« Reply #14 on: September 08, 2017, 01:39:43 PM »
Hey guys,

I've been waffling between the Sig MPX and CZ Scorpion Evo for a while now and yesterday at LGS I caved in when they offered me a bit of a discount on the flash can version to the point that the price was nearly a wash with the regular pistol.  This seemed like a neat idea since I could run my Rugged Obsidian suppressor threaded onto the Scorpion immediately and have an m-lok barrel shroud already on the weapon for easier shooting.

Now I'm kind of questioning if I made a dummy decision.  I took the factory flash can off after heating it up with a heat gun.  Put my Obsidian on and realized that the first thing I'd want to do is put a tri-lug adapter on the barrel.  It looks like to have enough access to tighten the adapter properly I'd have to take the hand guard off.... but if I do that and put the tri-lug on it doesn't look like it would be possible to reattach the hand guard since it needs to go directly over the barrel.  I'd also have to find some kind of tri-lug compatible adapter to go on the weapon when I wasn't shooting it with the suppressor to avoid the risk of toasting my fingers... as I'd be unable to use the factory "flash can".

Anyone have any input?  Am I confused that I can just remove the retaining nut on the barrel shroud with a 21mm socket extension?  Does it rotate out left or right? I have seen disassembly videos of the regular Scorpion pistol that required use of a special tool to access a slim retention nut but mine doesn't seem to be put together that way.

I also bought a pile of magazines for it at the same time, the two 20's that came with it eject easily but every single one of the 30's hangs up in the mag well so I guess I'll need to closely inspect them and figure out what the difference is, or search this forum for answers.

I hope that I end up loving this pistol instead of scratching my head about it.  I plan to run it as a pistol with brace in the near term and if I really enjoy it then I'd go ahead and SBR it.  I was originally going to build a dedicated 9mm upper for one of my existing SBRs before deciding to buy a "real" sub-gun semi-auto 9mm.

Thanks!

The nut is normal thread pattern.  It is there.  Just recessed slightly behind the collar with the lock tab for the muzzle device.  Get the tailhook brace with the factory folding arm and your desire to SBR the gun will be 0%. 
Anything you don't like about the gun can be changed.  The grip, safeties, trigger pull weight, handguard, barrel length etc.  The lower starting price of the Evo also lends itself well to modding. 

We discuss the majority of this gun in terms of what we have replaced.  There are dozens of threads in here pertaining to the different charging handles, handguards, etc. 

Watch what 3 lug adapter you buy, I can't remember which ones had some issues, but I've seen some complaints. 


If you enjoyed shooting the Evo out of the box, even with irons.  You're gonna be addicted once you start improving upon it a little.  It gets really - really good with some touch ups.  They are accurate and extremely reliable for being mostly polymer.  *near Glock / AK like reliability.  They feed just about anything.  They run dirty. 

Here's a list of quick touch ups that I personally like the best, and / or have already bought. 

Gear Head Works - mag release, (smallest paddle) Tail Hook. 
PMM QD sockets wherever you like.  Safeties. 
Apex - grip (simplest smallest most AK like)  but lots of options out there
HBI - reduced power trigger return spring - handguards for you.  (triggers, charging handles <--- get the poly one or an aluminum one will gall in your aftermarket handguard etc)  They have K length handguards if you want to get the barrel out in front a little. 

Shooter's Element will rework your trigger for $50.  Their flat trigger is attractive.  So is their charging handle, but it's aluminum and may not play well with the aftermarket (aluminum) handguard. 

Yeti has some of his own stuff, and some of the other manufacturer's items and ships fast. 

Manticore has your 3 lug, handguards, charging handles and they make the 32rd mags. 



But seriously read on that 3 lug.  I know people were not happy with one of them.