Author Topic: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine  (Read 963 times)

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Offline John A.

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Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« on: September 16, 2017, 02:47:13 PM »
Seriously thinking about converting my pistol into a carbine. 

Not wanting to jump through more hoops SBR'ing the gun, but would like to use a stock, and a front grip wouldn't be terrible either. 

Since I have a gen 1 gun, I'd have to modify the gun to use a newer (gen 2) rifle barrel.  Would rather avoid milling it if I could. 

Plus, I don't want to spend $200 on a barrel and fixture and another $150 on an HBI handguard.  it would be cheaper just to hold my nose and do another tax stamp, which I'd truly like to avoid on this gun.  I already have more than a half dozen tax stamps as it is.

I'm wanting to go the cheap route but the bigger kicker is I still want to use my can on the gun.  Since I haven't ever seen a barrel extension like I need, I'd need to make my own.

So, I'll probably have to make a barrel extension from some 1018 and pin and weld it.  Similar to adding a car15 extension on a 11.5" barrel but the front would be threaded standard 1/2-28 male. 

I just worry about keeping the bore hole straight for 8+ inches of center boring.  That would be the most difficult part of the whole thing. 

Will likely bore from each end toward the center keep it from wandering as much as possible because if I use my can on it, it'll have to be dang close to perfect because I don't want to risk baffle strikes sticking the can farther out there dealing with stacking tolerances.

I can buy the raw material (.750" steel rod) for under $12 delivered.  Not certain whether I want to use a tap or single point cut the threads.  I can't recall ever cutting metric threads, so I'd have to study up on the particulars of it.

So, I'm asking for a few honest opinions about the project?  Worth my time in the shop or just forget the idea and go on?



When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline Thrillbilly

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2017, 06:45:54 PM »
As inexpensive as these guns are, I would trade it.

Offline John A.

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2017, 08:02:47 PM »
I already have it set up how I like for the most part.

I'm just trying to use what I have and add the ability to add a stock mainly.  The grip would be fine too, but mainly a stock.

Longer sight radius isn't too bad of an afterthought either.

It wouldn't add any extra velocity since the extension would be over-bored.  But I know it's already fine out for the distance that I would be using it.
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline Border Dave

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2017, 08:31:41 PM »
Have you thought about pinning and welding a long suppressor on the end of the barrel to make its total barrel length more than 16 inches?
« Last Edit: September 16, 2017, 08:37:55 PM by Border Dave »

Offline John A.

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2017, 08:50:02 PM »
I have.

I just don't really think I want to lose the ability to use it on my rifles because it's the only rifle can I have.

When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline Border Dave

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2017, 11:21:55 PM »
In that case, how about using a Gear Head Works Tailhook pistol brace instead of a stock?

Offline John A.

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #6 on: September 16, 2017, 11:51:28 PM »
I think I would like the brace better than the shockwave that's on it. 

But it's still not a stock.

It's one of the first grabs everyone wants to get hold of, and we have a lot of people that enjoys it, and they range in size from 10 years old to 50, and having something that is easily adjustable is preferred so it fits everyone better  Especially the younger ones.
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline moose97

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2017, 12:28:54 AM »
As inexpensive as these guns are, I would trade it.
This. So what if you've already got the pistol "set up" how you want it? It'll take you 5 minutes to take whatever you have on it off & reattach to the carbine. Seems like you're trying to find the most overcomplicated way to accomplish your goal.

Online AZ_CZ

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2017, 01:13:06 AM »
What about pinning and welding a shroud on the barrel just behind threads to get your 16" length. Then you can shoot with or without the can. Something like the Tactical Solution SBX barrel.

http://www.brownells.com/rifle-parts/barrel-parts/rifle-barrels/ruger-10-22-sb-x-barrels-prod32513.aspx
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Offline John A.

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2017, 09:12:57 AM »
As inexpensive as these guns are, I would trade it.
This. So what if you've already got the pistol "set up" how you want it? It'll take you 5 minutes to take whatever you have on it off & reattach to the carbine. Seems like you're trying to find the most overcomplicated way to accomplish your goal.

 ;D  You're probably right.  And not the first person to ever point that out.

I guess it would be easier to trade the gun in or buy another one. 

And that's still a possibility if I can't make the barrel extension straight enough.

AZ_CZ, I hadn't thought about the SBX shroud.  I remember seeing them a while back, but it is an option I hadn't considered. 

I think the biggest problem for that would be that I would have to make the shroud so long that it would stick out well past the end of my can and that would make it problematic to install and remove the can once I did get it on there good.  I'll have to think about it some more.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 09:21:32 AM by John A. »
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Online AZ_CZ

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2017, 06:07:31 PM »
Maybe a 2-piece shroud? Like a scope sunshade?

Sorry I'm no help with specifics. I am, however, the King of Stupid and Impractical Ideas.
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Offline Obiwan

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2017, 07:47:28 PM »
Don't forget the 922r kit for the rifle. (I presume you included that cost with your stock purchase)
« Last Edit: September 17, 2017, 08:43:08 PM by Obiwan »

Offline John A.

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2017, 04:33:07 PM »
I wasn't going to buy a scorpion stock.  Already got a ton of US parts in the gun.  My muzzle attachment (suppressor is US made by yours truly or YHM phantom flashider depending on when I'm using it), not counting the mags themselves which should count as 3 parts if they want to get particular about it.

HBI trigger and springs, mag release, charging handle, mag adapter.  Not sure if any or all count towards parts counts or not.

I'm going to use a magpul stock on the gun, which is US made and counts as a 922 part by itself  ;)

Grip is also US made.

Handguard will be one of HBI's freefloated guards.  Again, us made.

I think I'm covered where 922 is concerned. 

Besides, I think 922 is technically for manufacturers.

Since it's allowed, I can convert it back into a pistol at will, and doesn't change the classification of the gun in the eyes of the law.

Supreme court ruled that you can convert a pistol into a rifle and back without changing its' classification.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 04:47:40 PM by John A. »
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

Offline Destructo6

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2017, 06:00:09 PM »
Quote
Besides, I think 922 is technically for manufacturers.
You are the manufacturer if you're changing the configuration into something it was not when first sold. That's why you have to 922r it when you "manufacturer" a SBR from a pistol.
Quote
Supreme court ruled that you can convert a pistol into a rifle and back without changing its' classification.
What case is that? I'm usually pretty up to date on gun related SCOTUS stuff.

Offline John A.

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Re: Considering turning my pistol into a carbine
« Reply #14 on: September 18, 2017, 06:49:39 PM »
It was in reference to United States Versus Thompson-Center Arms (1992).

The short of it says you can convert a pistol to a rifle and back again if you'd like without issue.  As long as you're not making it a short barrel rifle of course.  For making SBR's, they do fall into a different category altogether.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Thompson-Center_Arms_Co.

When you convert a weapon into a SBR, you are also required to fill out a form 1 (application to make a firearm).

This permanently changes the status in the registry to an NFA short barreled rifle.

But when changing a pistol to a rifle, not so.  And why I referenced the SCOTUS decision, and even the ATF now agrees. 

The final paragraph is why you have to do SBR's and not pistols.

Excerpt from: https://www.atf.gov/file/55526/download

Quote
Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when parts in a kit that were originally designed to be configured as both a pistol and a rifle are assembled or re-assembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol, or a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length).

Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(3) and (a)(4), is not made when a pistol is attached to a part or parts designed to convert the pistol into a rifle with a barrel of 16 inches or more in length, and the parts are later unassembled in a configuration not regulated under the NFA (e.g., as a pistol).

Held further, a firearm, as defined by 26 U.S.C. 5845(a)(4), is made when a handgun or other weapon with an overall length of less than 26 inches, or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length, is assembled or produced from a weapon originally assembled or produced only as a rifle. Such weapons must be registered and are subject to all requirements of the NFA.

To the extent this ruling may be inconsistent with any prior letter rulings, they are hereby superseded.
Date approved: July 25, 2011
Kenneth E. Melson
Acting Director

« Last Edit: September 18, 2017, 06:54:51 PM by John A. »
When people ignorant of guns make gun laws, you end up with ignorant gun laws.

 

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