Author Topic: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...  (Read 4256 times)

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Offline badwrench

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #30 on: October 23, 2017, 06:28:41 PM »
If the OO video did one thing, it made everyone aware of the issue. Sure, maybe they should've sent it to CZ first,  but, by putting it on youtube, millions of people saw it..There's no sweeping it under the rug now, it forces CZ's hand.. Now, somebody at CZ is going to have to get off their rear ends and take a look at this.. Alot of money is at stake, how they handle this will be very telling, If CZ cares about their customer base, they'll come up with a fix, if not they'll keep telling people it's not an issue. I'm going to be watching very carefully, I'm not married to any one brand, if I buy a pistol and it dosen't perform to my expectations, and after working with the manfacturer, I still can't get it to work, then, down the road it goes, it's that simple..

I like to play devils advocate.  To be fair it only has 7,915 views at the time of this post.  OO only has 5,800 subscribers.  I think it would also be fair for them to do a followup review on a completely stock unit.  They damned off every p10c in existence with that review on a full strip cerakote job gun.  Glad I didn't watch it before I bought mine.  Its been pretty amazing and I'm completely satisfied with the gun and it operates and functions 100% as it should.



For what it's worth, I can push the striker over to the left on mine, without too much effort and ease the slide down and make the slide stick back.... My pistol is stock and has never been taken apart beyond field stripping. The bigger question(s) that I've yet to see answered is..What happens when these guns get a few thousand rounds on them? Will they intermittently start doing this on their own? Will you always be able to clear it just by retracting the slide? What do you do when you can't? What course of remedial action do you take then?  The issue here is bigger than a few thousand youtube viewers... Lets be honest.. the P-10 is being marketed as a carry gun, this "flaw" is not  acceptable in a carry gun..period.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:31:46 PM by badwrench »

Offline cremaley

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #31 on: October 23, 2017, 06:46:03 PM »
Headed to my gunsmith tomorrow for a trigger job and to have the HB Industries 3.5 pound striker spring installed. Trigger is currently breaking at 5.15 pounds and would like to get it between 4-4.5 pounds. While he has my CZP-10 I am going to ask him to check the difficult slide release as well as the magazine release. Curious to see if he can figure out why the are so stiff. He has been working on my handguns for over 25 years and is one of the most knowledgable and proficient gunsmiths I have ever run across. BTW the reason I am not installing the HB Industries flat trigger is it reduces the take up and I don't like that on a carry gun.
CZ 10-PC 9mm
Springfield XDE 9mm
Colt Cobra 38 Spl+P

Offline MadDuner

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #32 on: October 23, 2017, 08:05:24 PM »
I'm glad to see that people don't automatically diiscard these at the first sign of an issue.  There is usually a work-around IF there is an issue with something.  This sounds like they have a fix for it.  Just a matter of getting it if the P-10C you have is a problem child or not.

Offline armoredman

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2017, 10:55:32 PM »
Badwrench, that s the $64,000 question - the gu doesn't tip the striker over on it's own, has to manually have it done. So after 10,000 rounds will it spontaneously start doing itself? I kinda doubt it, but I think the highest round count in a non company P-10C is 5,000 on one i saw at ar15.com.  I have far more than the old, gold standard of 200 rounds through mine and I'm happy with it's reliability even with manually induced failures, which, when manually induced, are not failures. We shall see, and as with all new guns, problems can and will pop up - anything made by the hands f man is failure prone. I'll keep shooting mine, and, indeed, carrying it, and keeping an eye on any issues that may creep up.

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2017, 05:31:59 AM »
I've purchased a Sig, Springfield Armory,and 2 S&W's in the last 3 years all of which had issues and these guns have been around much longer than the P10C. I have no doubt CZ will resolve any issues with this new model. They did a real good job reforming the P-07 after the early issues with some examples.

Offline HST

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2017, 08:51:46 AM »
I have over 2000 rounds thru my P 10 so far no problems. There are other people on this site with way more than that with no problems .
Also the serial # starts with 188 . 

Offline gunkucool

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2017, 01:16:38 PM »
I dont know why some people even want to pay attention about that OO vid. As soon as I saw the gun was modified, i did not have any interest at all. Maybee..he had called CZ to get the warranty, and the response was not as he was expecting, then made that funny"review" (that was not a normal review btw). If that was brand new from the box, I would take my time to watch it. But still, it is human made, nothing is perfect and so do others gun companies, autos etc.....

Offline armoredman

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2017, 07:27:23 PM »
Which is why I did my video. Yes, we have heard of a few, and I believe the members when they tell me there is an issue and I usually tell them the same thing - if it's a gunsmithing issue, get a hold of CZ-USA for warranty service. Mine has been working just fine and is now a carry pistol for me. Omaha showed a sample of one, same as I did - which pretty much cancels each other out. I have had brand new items that wouldn't work right right out of the box, and nothing we could do would make it work right, when 3,000 other people had no issue whatsoever. Case inpoint - Century Arms International. People tell me they have had multiple rifles put together by them that worked perfectly - I've had two that failed spectacularly, and I will never buy anything made by them again. Personal bias, and I gave them another chance. Or should we start the Ford/Chevy debate? Whoo, doggy, that will go for miles of thread!  :o ;D

Offline Str8t-Shooter

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #38 on: October 25, 2017, 03:54:11 AM »
I'm not home and have a lot of time on my hands.  I also have a P10c that has about to 750 rounds through it.  I had 1 FTF in the first magazine, which I attribute to the ammo, and have had zero issues after.  However, with all of this time on my hands and not being able to get to my safe....These videos give me a reason to concentrate on the P10C when I get back to the house. I appreciate most input and reviews, but the one's that seem to be a little biased, I take that into account. If mine starts doing funky stuff-I know where to look from the get-go.  I appreciate more, the realistic approach that Amoredman took with his video.  I think rounds count will be telling with the P10C and there are a few out there with more the 5K.  Hoping I have the time when I return to push it up to the 2.5k mark...Just so many to shoot... ;D

Offline deadduck357

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #39 on: October 25, 2017, 04:35:48 AM »
Don't own one but want one. They're so scarce around here I wasn't even able to get my hands on one till the last gun show. It was a black one (I want FDE), excited to finally see one I picked it up looked at it, then aimed at the ground to check out the sights and then noticed a dark gap on the back of the slide. It was a large gap between the slide and striker back plate. Thinking it just didn't get completely inserted during assembly I pushed it back closed with my thumb. It was so loose that it freely moved up and down without resistance. It was brand new. Laid it back down and walked away.

Offline armoredman

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #40 on: October 25, 2017, 06:01:24 PM »
Removing the snark, we have,
Quote from: Oldhammerdude
I don't know much about much but it seems as though there is something to this out of battery "Flaw" .
Well I do understand mechanical engineering and I won't say how or why, but I do understand what the 'Flaw" is caused by.

The problem doesn't seem to be the problem, but everyone's attitude about the problem. First, I acknowledged in my video, here and on other forums, that some people have had this issue, The reports seem to be of just a few pistols, and almost everyone reported that "it happened once and never again". The ones who have reported it happened more than once sent guns back to CZ-USA and had them repaired/replaced. I have taken the time to connect with CZ-USA and give them the thread locations of these discussions on many different forums, not just this one, so they can see what the response on the street is. I have not heard from them as to what the company intent is, but I would expect them to do the right thing if needed - the USA is one of their largest and expanding markets.
So, going back to OHD, with you unstated expertise, perhaps you can explain what the "flaw" is, how it can be corrected, and why it only seems to affect a very few pistols?

Offline armoredman

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #41 on: October 26, 2017, 06:58:25 AM »
Not knowing what that exactly means, I will have to say, OK. Have a nice day, and I would think if you had watched the video you would have guessed my sex by now, unless this section of the reply is in response to removed comments on the actual YouTube video by a person using a rather different screen name.

Offline badwrench

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #42 on: October 26, 2017, 10:53:16 AM »
Not knowing what that exactly means, I will have to say, OK. Have a nice day, and I would think if you had watched the video you would have guessed my sex by now, unless this section of the reply is in response to removed comments on the actual YouTube video by a person using a rather different screen name.

Oldhammerdude is right... spec stacking, or better known as tolerance stacking can indeed cause odd things to happen,  for example it is believed that this is part of the ejection problems that Glock still has.. You could do yourself a favor, and learn what some of these terms mean. I firmly believe that a rotating striker has NO place in a pistol marketed as a carry gun. It's just a matter of time before this issue bites sombody in the behind. I'd tell anybody reading this to look at  the leg of your striker, is it chipped? If it is, that means that it just missed getting hung up on the frame, meaning the striker was rotating while the pistol was being fired. Something to think about.. If your striker leg is chipped, how can anyone continue to carry it knowing this is going on? The smart money is on not carrying it until CZ resolves the issue once and for all, and not just a band-aid.. blow it off if you want..it's still a serious issue, even if one dosen't accept it.

Offline cremaley

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #43 on: October 26, 2017, 12:56:48 PM »
And the beat goes on. Seems like every time a new handgun is introduced there are issues some perceived some real. Not sure what this one is but time will tell. In the mean time, I will continue to put rounds down range on my P-10 and as long as it continues to function flawlessly, I will carry it every day.
CZ 10-PC 9mm
Springfield XDE 9mm
Colt Cobra 38 Spl+P

Offline cremaley

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Re: I went to the range to explore that P-10C "fatal flaw" as it was called...
« Reply #44 on: October 26, 2017, 07:57:18 PM »
And the beat goes on. Seems like every time a new handgun is introduced there are issues some perceived some real. Not sure what this one is but time will tell. In the mean time, I will continue to put rounds down range on my P-10 and as long as it continues to function flawlessly, I will carry it every day.

As a follow up to this post, my gunsmith called me today to say that he took my P-10 to the range to test fire it and when he pulled the trigger the round did not fire. After further inspection, he found that the tip of the striker had broker off. I immediately called CZ-USA and they are mailing me a new striker in the morning. CZ-USA was not aware of why this happened but did not feel it was due to dry firing. I am now wondering if it has anything to due with the so called "fatal flaw". Would be interested in know what some of you think.
CZ 10-PC 9mm
Springfield XDE 9mm
Colt Cobra 38 Spl+P