Author Topic: RDS W/O BUIS ??  (Read 1311 times)

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Offline DOC 1500

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RDS W/O BUIS ??
« on: October 27, 2017, 04:34:29 PM »
Do any of you guys run an RDS (like a vortex viper 6moa ) without a rear buis.
Thank you for all your comments  and recommendations in advance
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Offline Raining_Brass

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2017, 04:48:22 PM »
Tons of people do if it’s not a defense gun.

Offline DOC 1500

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2017, 04:52:54 PM »
Tons of people do if it’s not a defense gun.
That's a good point, and at this point of my life at 58 years old I don't see the site so well anymore. Thinking that for self-defense I will be using the front sight mostly anyway and having the RDS is going to solve my vision problems with the sites.
I figured I would just leave the front sight on and not put a rear sight after I have you Mill and install the vortex Viper
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Online s0nspark

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2017, 05:02:06 PM »
I like having the irons too. It helps to orient the gun if the draw wasn’t perfect
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Offline DOC 1500

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2017, 06:27:11 PM »
I'm thinking for self-defense I'll be okay, I don't do any competition Bullseye Shooting.
When the SHTF I'll be happy just to get the gun out in time.
With a shot timer I'm right at about 2.95 seconds , 2 shots on target from concealed carry.
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2017, 08:24:21 PM »
You can get/install an adjustable rear sight on the back end of a DP Pro.  That's what I used for my wife's little compact.

You can see it just above the hammer in this picture.

Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline DOC 1500

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2017, 09:40:35 PM »
I'm getting the vortex Viper I don't think I'm worried about the rear iron sight, for now anyway.
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Offline DOC 1500

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2017, 08:45:46 AM »
Guys , if you don't have backup iron sights with your RDS let me know why and what you're  thoughts are.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 11:59:22 AM by DOC 1500 »
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Online s0nspark

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #8 on: October 28, 2017, 12:44:42 PM »
Guys , if you don't have backup iron sights with your RDS let me know why and what you're  thoughts are.

Not trying to skew your mission here, but really... you need to understand why BUIS are considered an important component on an RDS-equipped gun you will use for defense.

As Tom givens says: it's not the odds - it's the stakes.

For a range/competition gun, honestly... who cares? Set it up however you want! There are no fatal consequences if the optic fails... just a less-than-stellar range session or score in competition.

With a gun you may need to defend your life with, though, that changes... dramatically.

If this is to be your carry gun, I strongly urge you to rethink going without cowitness (or at least 1/3 cowitness) irons... especially with an optic less proven, durability-wise, like the Vortex.

Seriously, man... I'm not trying to rain on your parade. It is just that there is a reason BUIS are so highly recommended on a self-defense gun, you know?

A failure that puts you in a position where you cannot effectively defend yourself should NOT be a choice for serious consideration.
"A man's character is his fate."

Offline DOC 1500

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #9 on: October 28, 2017, 01:50:37 PM »
Guys , if you don't have backup iron sights with your RDS let me know why and what you're  thoughts are.

Not trying to skew your mission here, but really... you need to understand why BUIS are considered an important component on an RDS-equipped gun you will use for defense.

As Tom givens says: it's not the odds - it's the stakes.

For a range/competition gun, honestly... who cares? Set it up however you want! There are no fatal consequences if the optic fails... just a less-than-stellar range session or score in competition.

With a gun you may need to defend your life with, though, that changes... dramatically.

If this is to be your carry gun, I strongly urge you to rethink going without cowitness (or at least 1/3 cowitness) irons... especially with an optic less proven, durability-wise, like the Vortex.

Seriously, man... I'm not trying to rain on your parade. It is just that there is a reason BUIS are so highly recommended on a self-defense gun, you know?

A failure that puts you in a position where you cannot effectively defend yourself should NOT be a choice for serious consideration.
Thank you very much for your honesty I do really appreciate it.
Here's my thinking, when I target practice mainly for self-defense, at a distance of 20-25 feet, every time  I draw from The holster putting two rounds Center Mass every time. For as much practice as I do have , I can do that with my eyes closed, because of muscle memory. Most of the time I'm not looking at the rear sights anyway . Thank God for muscle memory because most of the time my rear site is blurry anyway because of old eyes.
That's why I'm going with an RDS just to see it a little bit better. If the battery goes out or the RDS doesn't work I will rely on muscle memory and watching the front sight.
 As far as the vortex Viper 6 moa  I've selected I've done a lot of reading and have read about a hundred reviews, along with about another 50 videos.
The two biggest complaints I hear about this particular RDS is you can't make wind adjustments on the rear of the site because of iron sights mounted behind it and you have to remove it to change the battery which may occur from my reading about once a year or longer.
I really do appreciate everybody's comments and suggestions.
Edit. Plus the fact that the vortex Viper has an unconditional lifetime warranty..
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 03:02:44 PM by DOC 1500 »
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Offline Edward_Teach

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #10 on: October 28, 2017, 03:30:07 PM »
Guys , if you don't have backup iron sights with your RDS let me know why and what you're  thoughts are.

Not trying to skew your mission here, but really... you need to understand why BUIS are considered an important component on an RDS-equipped gun you will use for defense.

As Tom givens says: it's not the odds - it's the stakes.

For a range/competition gun, honestly... who cares? Set it up however you want! There are no fatal consequences if the optic fails... just a less-than-stellar range session or score in competition.

With a gun you may need to defend your life with, though, that changes... dramatically.

If this is to be your carry gun, I strongly urge you to rethink going without cowitness (or at least 1/3 cowitness) irons... especially with an optic less proven, durability-wise, like the Vortex.

Seriously, man... I'm not trying to rain on your parade. It is just that there is a reason BUIS are so highly recommended on a self-defense gun, you know?

A failure that puts you in a position where you cannot effectively defend yourself should NOT be a choice for serious consideration.
Thank you very much for your honesty I do really appreciate it.
Here's my thinking, when I target practice mainly for self-defense, at a distance of 20-25 feet, every time  I draw from The holster putting two rounds Center Mass every time. For as much practice as I do have , I can do that with my eyes closed, because of muscle memory. Most of the time I'm not looking at the rear sights anyway . Thank God for muscle memory because most of the time my rear site is blurry anyway because of old eyes.
That's why I'm going with an RDS just to see it a little bit better. If the battery goes out or the RDS doesn't work I will rely on muscle memory and watching the front sight.
 As far as the vortex Viper 6 moa  I've selected I've done a lot of reading and have read about a hundred reviews, along with about another 50 videos.
The two biggest complaints I hear about this particular RDS is you can't make wind adjustments on the rear of the site because of iron sights mounted behind it and you have to remove it to change the battery which may occur from my reading about once a year or longer.
I really do appreciate everybody's comments and suggestions.
Edit. Plus the fact that the vortex Viper has an unconditional lifetime warranty..

Ok just my non professional opinion (based if just about every professional who recommends or supports red dot for self defense handguns) back up irons are a must.

Have you ever shot a handgun with a red dot? If not you are missing the major issue most people have and that's actually finding the red dot itself.

Now with iron sights there is a huge margin of error with open iron sights that seems Easy and fast to adjust for. With a red dot and no irons unless you have thousands of draw strokes with it you will most likely be "fishing for the dot, the red dot actually is less forgiving with bad fundamentals (not saying you have bad fundimentals)  but with out the aid of back up sights you will he fishing for a long time looking for the dot, the back up sights would give you some indication on how to correct for a less than perfect presentation.

Along with that picking an optic that isn't as rugged or reliable as say an RMR (which also has it's own issues with dot flicker, but that is easily fixed with a sealing plate or the type 2) or even the delta point pro I believe is next in line for holding up to abuse but not nearly as good of a battery life.

Unless you are going to be good with replacing batteries very regularly

Side note just looked up the battery life and it says something like 150 hours? Nope sorry less than a week of battery, and a 14 hour auto shut off.

Ok so you turn your dot on for the day out and about coming home late at night of !@## forgot that u turned my dot on 15 hours ago something happens now you draw and have no red dot and also no sights

Trijicon RMR 2 year battery life constant ON. Delta Point 6 months battery life
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Offline DOC 1500

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #11 on: October 28, 2017, 05:40:52 PM »
Thanks for the Insight I appreciate it.
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Offline DOC 1500

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #12 on: October 28, 2017, 05:42:44 PM »
Here's another good question does anybody actually have a Vortex Viper on their pistol,  and what is your experience with it.
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Offline DOC 1500

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Re: RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #13 on: October 28, 2017, 06:12:33 PM »
Edward , is it true that when you look through the RDS window whatever the dot Is touching is where the bullet goes. Plus I think mine being a 6 MOA going to be a lot easier to see.
JOHN 3:16
2 COR.5:17
A Lie is a Lie even if everybody believes it ,
The Truth is the Truth even if nobody believes it !!!

Online s0nspark

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RDS W/O BUIS ??
« Reply #14 on: October 28, 2017, 06:15:30 PM »
Here's my thinking, when I target practice mainly for self-defense, at a distance of 20-25 feet, every time  I draw from The holster putting two rounds Center Mass every time. For as much practice as I do have , I can do that with my eyes closed, because of muscle memory. Most of the time I'm not looking at the rear sights anyway . Thank God for muscle memory because most of the time my rear site is blurry anyway because of old eyes.

OK, so just to make sure I understand the plan - you plan to replace the front sight with an appropriate suppressor-height sight and just forego the rear sight? That does, at least, give you a front sight to index off of through the optic. Point taken about the rear being blurry... and there is a lot to be said for having the reps in to where you can put accurate shots on target at close range without using the sights. I would still be concerned about needing to take longer shots without the optic, though.

That's why I'm going with an RDS just to see it a little bit better. If the battery goes out or the RDS doesn't work I will rely on muscle memory and watching the front sight.
 As far as the vortex Viper 6 moa  I've selected I've done a lot of reading and have read about a hundred reviews, along with about another 50 videos.
The two biggest complaints I hear about this particular RDS is you can't make wind adjustments on the rear of the site because of iron sights mounted behind it and you have to remove it to change the battery which may occur from my reading about once a year or longer.
I really do appreciate everybody's comments and suggestions.
Edit. Plus the fact that the vortex Viper has an unconditional lifetime warranty..

With proper milling, removing the optic to replace the battery is not a big deal. The optic goes right back where it was - no subtle shift due to a loose fit. I too would complain if I couldn't zero the dot with a rear sight installed. That seems less than well thought out! You could, however, opt to have a rear sight installed in front of the optic, assuming you decided to go with a rear sight after all.

I can't really speak to durability of the Vortex optics... they seem solid but are relatively new and do not have the benefit of years of hard use to their credit. It may be a solid choice depending on how hard you are on gear ;-) As M1A4ME suggested, I would consider the Deltapoint Pro too... especially since you plan to go without a rear sight. You could opt later to add the rear sight attachment to the DPP if you find that going without one is not all you hoped for. I think price-wise the DPP is about halfway between the Viper and an RMR...

ETA: I went with the 6.25 MOA dot for my carry pistols. I find it MUCH easier to pick up the dot quicker and with a slightly larger dot there is less "dot bounce" ... movement of the dot when you hold on target. The dot is where the bullet goes, regardless of where it is in the glass, although with some optics POI can shift slightly if the dot is towards the edges.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2017, 07:42:36 PM by s0nspark »
"A man's character is his fate."