Author Topic: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness  (Read 702 times)

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Offline monadhclann

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Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« on: November 04, 2017, 09:02:07 PM »
I got a Lyman gauge yesterday and could not wait to run all of my pistols through it. The DW Shadowback had a SA pull of 4.1 pounds. The Les Baer Commanche ranged from 3.5 pounds to 4 pounds.

The surprise came when I tested the CZ Shadow 2. The DA ranged from the mid 10 pound range to just over 11. The SA was right at 4 pounds. Both were very smooth. I expected lighter on the DA, but it feel good.

The surprise was complete when I tested a Beretta M9A3G. The DA was 8.5 pounds and the SA was right at 4 pounds. Not as smooth as the Shadow 2, but much lighter DA.

I may send the Shadow off for work by CZC. We'll see.

Offline wdbutcher

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2017, 10:50:23 PM »
I've had some pistols that the trigger had such a crisp clean break that I swore they had a lighter trigger pull than they really had. They're really a pleasure to shoot. I don't really like a SA trigger pull that is less than 3.5 lbs. I don't like those kind of surprises, but everyone has different preferences.

Offline MadDuner

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2017, 11:59:59 AM »
As I've become more proficient with handguns - I've actually gone back up in trigger pull weight preference. 
But of course I still want it as smooth as it can be.

Offline Joe L

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2017, 03:20:48 PM »
As I've become more proficient with handguns - I've actually gone back up in trigger pull weight preference. 
But of course I still want it as smooth as it can be.

Me, too.  I can and did run a near two pound SAO trigger in my 75B with a Kadet conversion, but I couldn't handle that frame with the 9mm slide on it--trigger was too smooth!!  I heavied up the 75B frame trigger pull to 3 lbs and all was well, with both the 9mm and the Kadet slides.  My P-09 has been right at 3 lbs for several years, and I have had it as low as 2-1/2, but didn't like it.  I have my 97 trigger at a little over 3.5 lbs.  So, 3-3.5 seems to be the sweet spot, with lots of engagement and not too crisp.

What the heavier pull with more engagement of the sear and hammer allows me to do is to put some pressure on the trigger to help me steady up the gun without worrying about letting the shot off too early.  I can "prep the trigger", put some pressure on it as the sights are lining up.  But this only works if the trigger is NOT gritty or rough!  A heavy trigger that is also rough is impossible to shoot.  My P-07 was that way, come to think of it.  CGW hammer fixed it. 

Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C

Offline DOC 1500

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2017, 03:54:23 PM »
My P-09 after several cgw Springs a lot of stoning and polishing of various internal parts,
DA 7.5# SA 2.5# Smoooooth
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Offline monadhclann

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2017, 03:58:08 PM »
I am more accurate with my Shadow 2, and there is no surprise in that. I love that pistol.

But the Beretta has grown on me.

DA results average:



SA results average:


Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2017, 05:48:23 PM »
You're right.  Sometimes a trigger can be so smooth it feels "lighter" than it really is.  I put a spur hammer in a project pistol last year (the CZ 85 Compact clone) and with the stock sear and that spur hammer the SA trigger pull was just amazing.  I put the gauge on it and it was 3 lbs. exactly.  Three lbs.  I would have bet a lot of money it was lighter than that.  It's just so crisp it feels lighter.  I had to test it about 4 times to convince myself it really was 3 lbs.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline dshoub

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2017, 02:10:28 PM »
I've experienced this as well, and it is amazing how a very smooth trigger pull can feel lighter than it actually is.

Offline Practical Shooter

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2018, 09:55:18 PM »
I think too many people now days want to rely on a specific trigger pull number. A raw trigger pull weight is a good place to start, but might end up being very deceiving.
As stated above, the trigger weight is not where the trigger is at. A good trigger is a smooth trigger, a predictable trigger with a known resistance, a trigger that we know, with all its parts smoothed out through live practice and dry firing for hours, a trigger that developed our trigger finger's muscle, and, I might sound silly, but a trigger we became one with  8)

Offline Joe L

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2018, 10:34:24 PM »
I think too many people now days want to rely on a specific trigger pull number. A raw trigger pull weight is a good place to start, but might end up being very deceiving.
As stated above, the trigger weight is not where the trigger is at. A good trigger is a smooth trigger, a predictable trigger with a known resistance, a trigger that we know, with all its parts smoothed out through live practice and dry firing for hours, a trigger that developed our trigger finger's muscle, and, I might sound silly, but a trigger we became one with  8)

Well stated.  I agree.
Joe
CZ-75B 9mm and Kadet, 97B"E", two P-09's, P-07, P-10C

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2018, 11:03:43 PM »
I had a similar  experience as the OP. I was doing a test to see how much each upgraded part and polishing contact areas had on the trigger pull. I was without words when I would test, polish, put together, test and the result was NOT a lighter trigger pull! BUT the trigger pull felt lighter... A really smooth finish makes all the difference!

Here's that test process.
http://www.czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=83591.0
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Offline MadDuner

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2018, 11:05:56 PM »
I have started to become one with my CZ's trigger.....
Now the trigger on my Springfield is too light!

Offline M1A4ME

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2018, 07:34:46 AM »
I bought a Colt 1911 Series 70 one time, just for the trigger pull.

I had taken my youngest son to a gun show and we walked around looking and talking.  I saw a used Colt Series 70 with a satin nickel finish and pointed it out to him.  I used to want a Combat Commander in satin nickel but couldn't afford one when I wanted one.

I asked the vendor if it was okay to pick it up and he told me it was (I always like to ask vs. just handling stuff).  I checked to make sure it was empty and, while pointing it at the floor, I squeezed the trigger.  Unbelievable.  Better than my Combat Commander I used to carry as a duty pistol years ago (still have it).  I cocked it, pulled the trigger again and knew it has just about the best 1911 trigger I'd every felt.  I looked at the price, started pulling out my walled to get to a credit card out to hand to the vendor and then filled out the paperwork and brought it home.

Then gave it to my youngest son.  Great pistol, but now when we go to the range he shoots his CZ 75 SA and the Colt stays in his safe.

A nice trigger, is nice.
Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it.  So, if you see me walking the dogs with my SIG 556R, its okay.

Offline monadhclann

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2018, 02:16:39 PM »
Following up on this, the bar has been reset for pull and smoothness.

DA pull - 5 pounds 11.7 ounces average




SA pull - 3 punds 1.4 ounces average



This is the smoothest DA/SA trigger I have ever seen. It will be interesting to see how my CZ 99021 turns out after I send it in to CZ Custom.

Offline Laufer

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Re: Trigger pull vs trigger smoothness
« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2018, 06:30:56 PM »
When a trigger's pull is designed to require only a very consistent pressure, as with my CZ PO1 and Sig P229, here's the question:

Do other people use the words "consistent pressure" in stead of smoothness?
A smooth trigger (no grittiness) can go from 7-15 lbs over the full range of pull.

What other words do people use which accurately describe what I'm trying to say?

 

anything