Author Topic: My new range brass scooper  (Read 720 times)

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Offline Wobbly

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #15 on: November 06, 2017, 06:59:05 PM »
I don’t have any suggestions, and pardon me for saying but I pictured you on your hands and knees scooping brass in between people legs and lanes with that midget shovel and am cracking up. 


I'm laughing now....
So you're at the range, rolling your pecan picker between people's legs and they ask what it is. "It's my nut getter."

 O0
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Offline Evolve13

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2017, 07:28:26 PM »
I don’t have any suggestions, and pardon me for saying but I pictured you on your hands and knees scooping brass in between people legs and lanes with that midget shovel and am cracking up. 


I'm laughing now....
So you're at the range, rolling your pecan picker between people's legs and they ask what it is. "It's my nut getter."

 O0

even funnier!!!


[Mods corrected quote]
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 06:35:39 PM by Wobbly »
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Offline nicky

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #17 on: November 06, 2017, 07:50:00 PM »
Quote
I'm laughing now....
So you're at the range, rolling your pecan picker between people's legs and they ask what it is. "It's my nut getter."

 O0

What if it's a between a women's leg?

Sorry. I couldn't help myself asking this.


[Sorry. I couldn't help but repair the quote]
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 06:37:57 PM by Wobbly »

Offline ReloaderFred

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #18 on: November 06, 2017, 08:49:58 PM »
I'm concerned that your indoor range allows the use of a broom on the floors.  I hope they don't also have carpets at the shooting positions, or on the floor behind the firing line.  If they don't know enough to not use a broom, I'll bet they don't have a hepa vacuum and they don't wet mop the floors.  I'd also be suspect of their HVAC system.........

Not a place I'd want to shoot in, sorry.

Fred
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #19 on: November 06, 2017, 08:59:51 PM »


I'm concerned that your indoor range allows the use of a broom on the floors.  I hope they don't also have carpets at the shooting positions, or on the floor behind the firing line.  If they don't know enough to not use a broom, I'll bet they don't have a hepa vacuum and they don't wet mop the floors.  I'd also be suspect of their HVAC system.........

Not a place I'd want to shoot in, sorry.

Fred

After laughing at the other comments this one caught my attention. They're a new range and their air filter system supposedly gets the air cleaner than outdoors (keep in mind I'm in a city surrounded by mountains, think a big pollution bowl in the winters). They don't have any carpeting in the range either. But the broom is now disconcerting and I'll check on the other items next time I go.

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Offline ReloaderFred

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #20 on: November 06, 2017, 11:48:15 PM »
I'm a delegate to the Oregon Association of Shooting Ranges (OASR), and we're affiliated with the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF).  We represent  27 ranges, with over 20,000 members.  One of our primary functions is to educate ranges and regulatory agencies on lead management for both indoor and outdoor clubs, and both private and public ranges.  We've worked closely with the NSSF and in the past the EPA and Oregon Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) to establish good common sense management practices for lead management.  Our DEQ didn't have a standard for shooting ranges until we worked with them and got some common sense rules worked out, which made it easier for both the agency and the ranges.  We've intervened when the DEQ threatened to close ranges down due to lead concerns in the past, and have gotten the issues worked out fairly, and much less expensively, than the fines the DEQ tried to assess.  It's been a win-win effort, but we've been at it for 15 years now.

With that said, I'm pretty familiar with lead issues and what works and what doesn't.  We're not one of those "sky is falling" groups, but rather deal with lead management on a scientific basis, without all the myths and politics.  We have an environmental company that works with us that not only takes care of shooting range issues concerning lead management, but also designs and builds shooting ranges, so we have professional advisors at hand all the time.

The NSSF has lead management material available for your range, free of charge.  All they have to do is get on the NSSF.org website and request them. 

Most of the shooters who suffer from lead contamination get it from indoor ranges that don't practice good lead management techniques.  They have to have a good HVAC system, wet mop the floors and shooting areas, use a hepa vacuum to clean the ranges, and never, ever use a broom to sweep any of the range floors, etc.  No couches or other furniture that might collect lead contamination should be in the shooting area, and all the surfaces should be able to be washed down, which means no carpets or other absorbent material.  It's really just good housekeeping, with a couple little tweaks thrown in.

One thing that some indoor ranges neglect to do is wet mop in front of the shooting positions on a regular basis.  Unfired gunpowder can, and will, collect there.  Firing .22's is the worst offender.  The result of a buildup of this powder is a flash fire, which sucks the oxygen right out of the air and produces heat, neither of which is conducive to human lungs, etc.

Just be cognitive of how your range does business, and don't be afraid to ask if they're doing it right.  If they aren't, they're creating a hazardous condition for the users...

Hope this helps.

Fred
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs

Offline MadDuner

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2017, 06:36:19 AM »
Thanks for all of that good info!

One of the ranges I frequent - doesn't appear to be handling things correctly then.  I'll see what they have to say on Saturday. 

Having the ceiling erupt in flames above me while shooting was more than a little disconcerting.  Apparently - the gun powder residue collects enough to be a factor?  They do keep a positive pressure air flow system running though.  Outside air is pumped through to keep us humans breathing air instead of gun smoke.  Sweeping all my brass into a pile so I could scoop it up by hand ihas been my practice for years.  I honestly hadn't given lead management or lead contamination on the floor much thought before this thread.  My range bag is probably half full of the stuff.  Thanks again for the info!

Offline ReloaderFred

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2017, 12:52:36 PM »
Rick Patterson, the CEO of SAAMI, gave us two talks on lead and range management issues when we first started 15 years ago.  He reported that in one year in Germany, where almost all shooting is done on indoor ranges, there were flash fires in three different ranges, and eight people lost their lives in those fires.  It's nothing to trifle with, and can be a dangerous situation. 

Most indoor ranges have expansion joints in the concrete floors in front of the shooting positions, and unburned powder has a tendency to collect in the cracks of the expansion joints.  Sweeping not only stirs up the lead contamination from lead styphnate primers, and from the lead residue left by heated gasses contacting exposed bullet bases, it also moves unburned powder into those cracks.

As noted by MadDuner, unburned powder can also collect in the overhead in front of the shooting positions, causing a fire danger as well.  Those surfaces need to be wet mopped, and then the water has to be treated as a mild HazMat and disposed of properly.

Hope this helps.

Fred
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs

Offline MadDuner

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2017, 02:35:44 PM »
Thanks Fred.
I'm going to ask a bunch questions the next time I walk into an indoor range.

Offline Tok36

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2017, 03:07:20 PM »
Interesting stuff indeed.
Will work for CZ pics! (including but not limited to all CZ clones)

Offline Scarlett Pistol

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2017, 03:33:10 PM »
I'm a delegate to the Oregon Association of Shooting Ranges (OASR), and we're affiliated with the National Shooting Sports Foundation (NSSF).  We represent  27 ranges, with over 20,000 members.  One of our primary functions is to educate ranges and regulatory agencies on lead management for both indoor and outdoor clubs, and both private and public ranges.  We've worked closely with the NSSF and in the past the EPA and Oregon Department of Environmental Quality (DEQ) to establish good common sense management practices for lead management.  Our DEQ didn't have a standard for shooting ranges until we worked with them and got some common sense rules worked out, which made it easier for both the agency and the ranges.  We've intervened when the DEQ threatened to close ranges down due to lead concerns in the past, and have gotten the issues worked out fairly, and much less expensively, than the fines the DEQ tried to assess.  It's been a win-win effort, but we've been at it for 15 years now.

With that said, I'm pretty familiar with lead issues and what works and what doesn't.  We're not one of those "sky is falling" groups, but rather deal with lead management on a scientific basis, without all the myths and politics.  We have an environmental company that works with us that not only takes care of shooting range issues concerning lead management, but also designs and builds shooting ranges, so we have professional advisors at hand all the time.

The NSSF has lead management material available for your range, free of charge.  All they have to do is get on the NSSF.org website and request them. 

Most of the shooters who suffer from lead contamination get it from indoor ranges that don't practice good lead management techniques.  They have to have a good HVAC system, wet mop the floors and shooting areas, use a hepa vacuum to clean the ranges, and never, ever use a broom to sweep any of the range floors, etc.  No couches or other furniture that might collect lead contamination should be in the shooting area, and all the surfaces should be able to be washed down, which means no carpets or other absorbent material.  It's really just good housekeeping, with a couple little tweaks thrown in.

One thing that some indoor ranges neglect to do is wet mop in front of the shooting positions on a regular basis.  Unfired gunpowder can, and will, collect there.  Firing .22's is the worst offender.  The result of a buildup of this powder is a flash fire, which sucks the oxygen right out of the air and produces heat, neither of which is conducive to human lungs, etc.

Just be cognitive of how your range does business, and don't be afraid to ask if they're doing it right.  If they aren't, they're creating a hazardous condition for the users...

Hope this helps.

Fred

As I have thought about this I have another question. If a broom will kick up hazardous material how should I be retrieving and processing brass? If I use a pusher and get it into a pile, will scooping it up and dumping it into a plastic bag also cause problems?

When I get it home and go to process it should I put on a mask and do so outside? Once it is sorted can I poor it into a container? Will that cause issue? Thanks for any and all help!
"In God I trust. All others must supply data."
"I respect that the choice of pistols is very personal. Although, if someone is devoid at least one CZ, they've chosen the wrong pistols"  - Scarlett Pistol
1) CZ 75 Compact Classic - 9mm
2) CZ SP-01 - 9mm
3) "SP-01 Compact" (CZ 75 Compact)

Offline ReloaderFred

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2017, 04:38:58 PM »
You can use a rake of sorts to move the brass.  The problem with using a broom is the fibers of the broom each act like a thousand small brooms, stirring the debris in the air.  The less the debris is stirred, the better.  You can also use a brass picker, like one of those reach things they advertise on TV for us old people to reach stuff out of normal reach.  They really do work great for picking up brass, and eliminate all that bending down, but you only pick up one or two pieces at a time.  With practice, you get pretty good at using it, and you can reach that elusive brass that fell just in front of the firing line, without actually putting body parts out there.

The biggest problem is the constant accumulation of contamination that indoor ranges incur.  It's just something that goes with shooting indoors, but a lot of ranges aren't willing to mitigate it.  They tend to treat their indoor ranges like outdoor ranges, which naturally have more air flow and disseminate the contaminates better.  Outdoor ranges still shouldn't have carpets, etc. at the shooting positions, since they're pretty much contaminant magnets.  Likewise, it's not prudent to eat or smoke while shooting, until you've washed your hands to remove the contaminants that you have on your hands.  It's no big deal really, but just practice good hygiene and you'll be ok.

It's not necessary to dress up in a HazMat suit to handle brass, or to reload.  You just have to know that elemental lead, i.e.; solid lead, isn't absorbed through the skin.  Only vaporized and oxidized lead is absorbed by inhaling or ingesting, so you want to get those contaminants off your skin before it comes in contact with your mouth or nose.  If it makes you feel better, you can wear a dust mask, but it's really not that necessary, as long as you're careful about the other handling issues.  Some people wear rubber gloves when reloading, but that's not necessary, either.  If it makes them feel good, then I won't tell them not to.  I wear latex gloves when sorting buckets of brass that I buy from our club, but that's only because my hands get black from handling all that brass, and I can just peel the gloves off when I'm done with a bucket and a simple wash of my hands takes care of the dirt, etc.  When I don't wear the gloves, it takes orange hand cleaner with pumice to get them clean, and several washings.  It's just a matter of convenience to me.

You can handle the brass as you normally would, but wash your hands afterwards.

I'd suggest any shooter have their lead levels checked whenever they have an annual physical.  If nothing else, it will ease your mind if you're concerned about it, and the blood levels are in the lower range.  On the other hand, if your blood levels are high, you can take steps to remove the lead from your blood.  One of my shooting buddies finally had his lead level checked and found out it was 61, which is way high, and is reportable to the state health department.  He didn't like getting that phone call, and his wife didn't like it even more.  He hadn't been taking any precautions, and never washed his hands after shooting, or handling lead.  I suggested he take large doses of Vitamin C, which he did, and got his level back down in the normal range in less than a year.  Oregon considers anything under 19 as "normal", but it varies by state.  I like for mine to be below 10, and the last time I was checked it was at 9.  Keep in mind that I cast bullets by the many thousands on both my Master Caster and commercial casting machine, so I have a lot of lead exposure, even before I shoot a round, which I do a lot of, too.  I also have a bullet fragment in my body that's been there for a long time, but it can't be absorbed in it's solid state, so my doctor said to just ignore it, which I do.

I'm a fanatic about washing after touching lead, lead contaminated materials or shooting, and it pays off.

I hope I've answered your questions, but if not, keep asking and I'll try.

Fred
After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it. - William S. Burroughs

Offline Wobbly

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #27 on: November 07, 2017, 06:48:01 PM »
Fred -

That was excellent ! Thank you.

When this thread is used up, I may make that section a stickie.

 ;)
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Offline nicky

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #28 on: November 07, 2017, 06:56:19 PM »
Thanks Fred

Offline nicky

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Re: My new range brass scooper
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2017, 06:59:10 PM »


When this thread is used up, I may make that section a stickie.

 ;)

That's a good idea.

 

anything