Author Topic: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year  (Read 790 times)

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Offline cremaley

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2017, 09:51:37 AM »
Has anyone here ever seen a car crabwalking down the road while the driver is Blindly smiling away? While they are totally oblivious to the fact that the inner axle retainer clip just let go?
 I feel that this forum is just a place for the Blindly smiling crowd to hang out.  And if I honk my horn to much for your liking, just know I really am meaning no harm by doing so.
 One thing I find really weird is the number of reply comments that Imply if you say Anything at all  against the brand or a model thereof, then somehow you Must be a loyal follower of another brand. Which I am Not.    I have many flavors of the pow pows, but not glocks.
 As to Arfcom. Yes I was a member long ago, back at one of the first meltdowns of their server setup. Left there because some of the same ridicule for just trying to help bring things to light that some found strangely offensive was not worth honking the horn about.
 Honestly I've only tried to Help by pointing out what I saw from an almost third person POV. Almost in regards to the fact I do have a P10c that has acted up. And sometimes it Is a benefit to all when an extra set of eyes Chimes in. I guess this is not the Case around here.
 Lots of luck to the sideways drivers!


All I can say is Really! Try saying something positive once and a while.
CZ 10-PC 9mm
Springfield XDE 9mm
Colt Cobra 38 Spl+P

Offline SI VIS PACEM PARRABELLUM

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2017, 09:51:42 AM »
Has anyone here ever seen a car crabwalking down the road while the driver is Blindly smiling away? While they are totally oblivious to the fact that the inner axle retainer clip just let go?
 I feel that this forum is just a place for the Blindly smiling crowd to hang out.  And if I honk my horn to much for your liking, just know I really am meaning no harm by doing so.
 One thing I find really weird is the number of reply comments that Imply if you say Anything at all  against the brand or a model thereof, then somehow you Must be a loyal follower of another brand. Which I am Not.    I have many flavors of the pow pows, but not glocks.
 As to Arfcom. Yes I was a member long ago, back at one of the first meltdowns of their server setup. Left there because some of the same ridicule for just trying to help bring things to light that some found strangely offensive was not worth honking the horn about.
 Honestly I've only tried to Help by pointing out what I saw from an almost third person POV. Almost in regards to the fact I do have a P10c that has acted up. And sometimes it Is a benefit to all when an extra set of eyes Chimes in. I guess this is not the Case around here.
 Lots of luck to the sideways drivers!

Cars don't crab walk when that C-lock comes free they tend to stop in the middle of the road moving no further. Anyway we all know by now that the P-10C has some issues that need to be addressed and CZ being the good company they are will work out the issues much quicker than would be expected but likely not fast enough for some who have issues of their own that CZ certainly will never be able to remedy.

Offline Oldhammerdude

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2017, 09:58:54 AM »
Has anyone here ever seen a car crabwalking down the road while the driver is Blindly smiling away? While they are totally oblivious to the fact that the inner axle retainer clip just let go?
 I feel that this forum is just a place for the Blindly smiling crowd to hang out.  And if I honk my horn to much for your liking, just know I really am meaning no harm by doing so.
 One thing I find really weird is the number of reply comments that Imply if you say Anything at all  against the brand or a model thereof, then somehow you Must be a loyal follower of another brand. Which I am Not.    I have many flavors of the pow pows, but not glocks.
 As to Arfcom. Yes I was a member long ago, back at one of the first meltdowns of their server setup. Left there because some of the same ridicule for just trying to help bring things to light that some found strangely offensive was not worth honking the horn about.
 Honestly I've only tried to Help by pointing out what I saw from an almost third person POV. Almost in regards to the fact I do have a P10c that has acted up. And sometimes it Is a benefit to all when an extra set of eyes Chimes in. I guess this is not the Case around here.
 Lots of luck to the sideways drivers!

Cars don't crab walk when that C-lock comes free they tend to stop in the middle of the road moving no further. Anyway we all know by now that the P-10C has some issues that need to be addressed and CZ being the good company they are will work out the issues much quicker than would be expected but likely not fast enough for some who have issues of their own that CZ certainly will never be able to remedy.

Issues of their own. That's a good one. Is this a firearms forum or a Little Momma's boy club?
Tap-Rack-Oh Crap

Offline Thebillsman

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #18 on: November 12, 2017, 11:01:40 AM »
Has anyone here ever seen a car crabwalking down the road while the driver is Blindly smiling away? While they are totally oblivious to the fact that the inner axle retainer clip just let go?
 I feel that this forum is just a place for the Blindly smiling crowd to hang out.  And if I honk my horn to much for your liking, just know I really am meaning no harm by doing so.
 One thing I find really weird is the number of reply comments that Imply if you say Anything at all  against the brand or a model thereof, then somehow you Must be a loyal follower of another brand. Which I am Not.    I have many flavors of the pow pows, but not glocks.
 As to Arfcom. Yes I was a member long ago, back at one of the first meltdowns of their server setup. Left there because some of the same ridicule for just trying to help bring things to light that some found strangely offensive was not worth honking the horn about.
 Honestly I've only tried to Help by pointing out what I saw from an almost third person POV. Almost in regards to the fact I do have a P10c that has acted up. And sometimes it Is a benefit to all when an extra set of eyes Chimes in. I guess this is not the Case around here.
 Lots of luck to the sideways drivers!

Cars don't crab walk when that C-lock comes free they tend to stop in the middle of the road moving no further. Anyway we all know by now that the P-10C has some issues that need to be addressed and CZ being the good company they are will work out the issues much quicker than would be expected but likely not fast enough for some who have issues of their own that CZ certainly will never be able to remedy.

Issues of their own. That's a good one. Is this a firearms forum or a Little Momma's boy club?

Are you done?
P-01 Omega : LOK G10s
P-10C FDE : HBi : APLc
P-09 40

Offline Grendel

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #19 on: November 12, 2017, 11:07:44 AM »

Issues of their own. That's a good one. Is this a firearms forum or a Little Momma's boy club?

Are you done?

You already left once. Pray do tell, why did you return?
Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus

Inter arma enim silent leges - Cicero

I wasn't born in America, but I got here as fast as I could.

Offline Oldhammerdude

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #20 on: November 12, 2017, 11:47:28 AM »
Positive:   Accurate and good grouping pistol is the P10c. YES.
Lack of coffee really lets the stuffing start to fall out of my Keyboard. YES
Not done but calmer now.Yes
Really Really thin skin around here. YES
Viewed as constructive critical input on my part. YES
Should keep my mouth shut around here. I'm Guessing yes.   ?!$%&&^$#@
Now off for a refill of java.  YYEESS
Tap-Rack-Oh Crap

Offline cremaley

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #21 on: November 12, 2017, 01:22:20 PM »
Positive:   Accurate and good grouping pistol is the P10c. YES.
Lack of coffee really lets the stuffing start to fall out of my Keyboard. YES
Not done but calmer now.Yes
Really Really thin skin around here. YES
Viewed as constructive critical input on my part. YES
Should keep my mouth shut around here. I'm Guessing yes.   ?!$%&&^$#@
Now off for a refill of java.  YYEESS

We're not listening so stop talking!
CZ 10-PC 9mm
Springfield XDE 9mm
Colt Cobra 38 Spl+P

Offline Grendel

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #22 on: November 12, 2017, 01:30:28 PM »
Really Really thin skin around here. YES


No thin skin here, but your incessant harping on about your perception of the failures of the pistol is getting old. This is, after all, a forum for enthusiasts of the CZ pistol and other firearms, so it seems a little strange that you do very little here but complain about them.

It is obvious that there have been some issues with some of the initial run of the 10c. No one here is blind to this situation, and it is also obvious that CZ is addressing those issues as they are identified.

Corruptissima re publica plurimae leges - Tacitus

Inter arma enim silent leges - Cicero

I wasn't born in America, but I got here as fast as I could.

Offline ranastas

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #23 on: November 12, 2017, 02:32:18 PM »
Amen

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Online s0nspark

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #24 on: November 12, 2017, 03:37:44 PM »
Has anyone here ever seen a car crabwalking down the road while the driver is Blindly smiling away? While they are totally oblivious to the fact that the inner axle retainer clip just let go?
 I feel that this forum is just a place for the Blindly smiling crowd to hang out.  And if I honk my horn to much for your liking, just know I really am meaning no harm by doing so.
 One thing I find really weird is the number of reply comments that Imply if you say Anything at all  against the brand or a model thereof, then somehow you Must be a loyal follower of another brand. Which I am Not.    I have many flavors of the pow pows, but not glocks.
 As to Arfcom. Yes I was a member long ago, back at one of the first meltdowns of their server setup. Left there because some of the same ridicule for just trying to help bring things to light that some found strangely offensive was not worth honking the horn about.
 Honestly I've only tried to Help by pointing out what I saw from an almost third person POV. Almost in regards to the fact I do have a P10c that has acted up. And sometimes it Is a benefit to all when an extra set of eyes Chimes in. I guess this is not the Case around here.
 Lots of luck to the sideways drivers!

THAT is your reply? You've been here a minute and already figured everyone and everything out? OK...

I own a P-10C. It has worked flawlessly out of the box. Others have not. Should I consider mine flawed then? Are you even listening to yourself??

Please, understand first how your initial post came off. Not objective, just negative and light on any details. You gave no context or first person commentary, just allusions to vague problems spreading like wildfire under the brush. Hardly the stuff reputable posts are made of.

Since you are new here, please understand - there is absolutely nothing wrong with reporting actual problems you have had. What is not so encouraged is vague mudslinging. That has NOTHING to do with brand or brand loyalty and everything to do with verifiable content. Third-party observations are hearsay, you know? Yes, the internet is full of them. That doesn't make for an accurate picture of what is really going on, now does it? Yet, that is how you presented your "nuggets" ... as fact, without qualification.

"pointing out what I saw from an almost third person POV" ... "almost in regards to the fact I do have a P10c that has acted up" - dude, what does that even MEAN?

Look, just be clear and direct with the facts. We'll all get along much better that way.

Have there been some verified problems with the P-10C? Yes.

Are they indicative of anything other than normal, first run problems? Hard to say conclusively without more data than we are likely to compile via the internet, but historically it is doubtful.

Have the reported problems been addressed by CZ? Yes.

Does the "Handgun of the Year" accolade change this at all? That is up to you to decide for yourself, but I have yet to see anything other than the normal teething problems new designs from every manufacturer seem to suffer. If Handgun of the Year is only handed out to PERFECT products then they ALL need to be revoked! ;-)

Also. just to say it: it is not to your credit to be so offended when others challenge your unsupported claims. IF you have a misbehaving CZ then, please get with customer service and report on what they actually do or say. THAT is considered good and helpful content.

As I've said... I've been the owner of problem Glocks, M&Ps, Sigs, etc. It sucks to have one but what really matters is how the manufacturer handles the situation - after all, ALL models have some statistical percentage of problems!

If you are just that guy with a misbehaving P-10c and want to bag on the gun because you are bummed yours didn't perform flawlessly out of the box... ok, fine. Realize, though, you are a sample size of one... and what may (or may not) prove true for you does not necessarily hold true for all owners of the gun.

Saying there are rampant problems based on third party anecdotes and internet posts isn't exactly the stuff of solid research... and, sorry, name-calling doesn't boost your credibility.
"A man's character is his fate."

Offline cremaley

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #25 on: November 12, 2017, 05:34:25 PM »
Has anyone here ever seen a car crabwalking down the road while the driver is Blindly smiling away? While they are totally oblivious to the fact that the inner axle retainer clip just let go?
 I feel that this forum is just a place for the Blindly smiling crowd to hang out.  And if I honk my horn to much for your liking, just know I really am meaning no harm by doing so.
 One thing I find really weird is the number of reply comments that Imply if you say Anything at all  against the brand or a model thereof, then somehow you Must be a loyal follower of another brand. Which I am Not.    I have many flavors of the pow pows, but not glocks.
 As to Arfcom. Yes I was a member long ago, back at one of the first meltdowns of their server setup. Left there because some of the same ridicule for just trying to help bring things to light that some found strangely offensive was not worth honking the horn about.
 Honestly I've only tried to Help by pointing out what I saw from an almost third person POV. Almost in regards to the fact I do have a P10c that has acted up. And sometimes it Is a benefit to all when an extra set of eyes Chimes in. I guess this is not the Case around here.
 Lots of luck to the sideways drivers!

THAT is your reply? You've been here a minute and already figured everyone and everything out? OK...

I own a P-10C. It has worked flawlessly out of the box. Others have not. Should I consider mine flawed then? Are you even listening to yourself??

Please, understand first how your initial post came off. Not objective, just negative and light on any details. You gave no context or first person commentary, just allusions to vague problems spreading like wildfire under the brush. Hardly the stuff reputable posts are made of.

Since you are new here, please understand - there is absolutely nothing wrong with reporting actual problems you have had. What is not so encouraged is vague mudslinging. That has NOTHING to do with brand or brand loyalty and everything to do with verifiable content. Third-party observations are hearsay, you know? Yes, the internet is full of them. That doesn't make for an accurate picture of what is really going on, now does it? Yet, that is how you presented your "nuggets" ... as fact, without qualification.

"pointing out what I saw from an almost third person POV" ... "almost in regards to the fact I do have a P10c that has acted up" - dude, what does that even MEAN?

Look, just be clear and direct with the facts. We'll all get along much better that way.

Have there been some verified problems with the P-10C? Yes.

Are they indicative of anything other than normal, first run problems? Hard to say conclusively without more data than we are likely to compile via the internet, but historically it is doubtful.

Have the reported problems been addressed by CZ? Yes.

Does the "Handgun of the Year" accolade change this at all? That is up to you to decide for yourself, but I have yet to see anything other than the normal teething problems new designs from every manufacturer seem to suffer. If Handgun of the Year is only handed out to PERFECT products then they ALL need to be revoked! ;-)

Also. just to say it: it is not to your credit to be so offended when others challenge your unsupported claims. IF you have a misbehaving CZ then, please get with customer service and report on what they actually do or say. THAT is considered good and helpful content.

As I've said... I've been the owner of problem Glocks, M&Ps, Sigs, etc. It sucks to have one but what really matters is how the manufacturer handles the situation - after all, ALL models have some statistical percentage of problems!

If you are just that guy with a misbehaving P-10c and want to bag on the gun because you are bummed yours didn't perform flawlessly out of the box... ok, fine. Realize, though, you are a sample size of one... and what may (or may not) prove true for you does not necessarily hold true for all owners of the gun.

Saying there are rampant problems based on third party anecdotes and internet posts isn't exactly the stuff of solid research... and, sorry, name-calling doesn't boost your credibility.


Very well said. Thanks
CZ 10-PC 9mm
Springfield XDE 9mm
Colt Cobra 38 Spl+P

Offline Oldhammerdude

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #26 on: November 12, 2017, 06:37:15 PM »
Yes, Thanks. Point taken I'll shut up or say nothing. :-X
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Offline The Guardian

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #27 on: November 12, 2017, 07:02:18 PM »
Ratings like "Best New Handgun of the Year" aren't really based on a long history of solid performance........usually its something different, somewhat innovative.....its kind of like Rookie of the Year in sports.......things look good out of the gate but "time" will tell the real story.  Its saying watch this firearm.....its got an upside and huge POTENTIAL, its not quite in the hall of fame yet  ;)
"I won't be wronged, I won't be insulted, and I won't be laid a hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." — John Wayne as J.B. Books in "The Shootist" (1976)

Offline cremaley

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Re: 2017 Guns & Ammo Handgun Of The Year
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2017, 07:27:31 PM »
Ratings like "Best New Handgun of the Year" aren't really based on a long history of solid performance........usually its something different, somewhat innovative.....its kind of like Rookie of the Year in sports.......things look good out of the gate but "time" will tell the real story.  Its saying watch this firearm.....its got an upside and huge POTENTIAL, its not quite in the hall of fame yet  ;)

Very good points!
CZ 10-PC 9mm
Springfield XDE 9mm
Colt Cobra 38 Spl+P